My Sig

[Archon]

Something as momentous as these miracles only get noted down in one book??? Highly unlikely.

First the bible is not just one book. Its a compilation of numerous books. 3 of which are the gospels. So you have 3 different sources telling the same story. Now as for jesus performing miracles... Jewish writing later would say that Jesus was a sorceror who led Isreal astray... They could have easily said that Jesus was a liar and didnt do anything of the like but instead they acknoledge this fact, Jesus performed miracles that could not be explained.

Now about credibility. You have to realize that out of the Apostles of Jesus 10 died horrific gruesome deaths, all refusing to deny what they had witnessed and saying that what Jesus did was true. NOw I ask you, if you had decided to make up stories about a superman who cured people and helped them would you be willing to die for a Lie? I dont think so.

Witnesses...
The miracles performed by Jesus were witnessed by many many people, Im sure you know the story about how Jesus had fed hundreds of people with just a couple pieces of brad and fish... This is not only a show that there were many witnesses to one miracle, but that During Jesus' ministry he had a good many followers...

The early church (before the vatican pope ect...) was very fragile, Christians were persecuted for thier beliefs. Dont you think that the Jewish population would have siezed onto any oportunity to denounce the church? When Jesus died on the cross many of his followers denounced him and fled. Some of these people witnesses to the miracles. After the gospels began to circulate Im sure these witneses would have lept upon any lies or discrepancies present within them. Essentially if the Gospels had lies about Jesus in them there would have been witnesses present to say they were lies... But there wernt.

oh no wait a mo, if you just repent on your deathbed for all those kids you murdered and you really, really mean it you can still go to heaven - I mean WTF?? So kiddie murderer is wandering heaven just because he said sorry??

If said Kiddie murdere is truly sorry, wishes to follow Jesus once again and be good... Then yes he is forgiven... I have no problem with forgiving and forgetting. Sure the kiddie murderer would have immense guilt for what he did, IMO thats punishment enough, The kids that were killed would also have to forgive the man. This is whats beutifull about God, he forgives, it doesnt matter what you did in the past, as long as you love God back and wish to become a better person theres nothing to worry about.

Also Jesus teaches that we should follow in his footsteps and live a life full of love and kindness... If kiddie murderer is willing to do that in heaven then all is good...


Now as for bad things happening in the world, children dying ect.

Children

God kills children, you know why? He gave us life, he has the right to take it away, NOw children are before the age they know right from wrong, they are innocent, in essence they will ultimatly go to heaven... No child is in hell... really it can be considered a pity killing in a sense. God is saving the kids from having to live a life full of trials and hardships and giving them a free pass into heaven... Alls good

Now for the parents... they will be traumetized, hurt, but in the end they will emerge as better people. Anyone who has to suffer through hardships and looks back on themselves prior to said hardships they will tell you that they learned from the experience and have become better people. These are sent by god to make improve people...

Now this post may be full of uncertainties and open holes but I dont really have the time to look back on it... If i sound harsh so shoot me..

And I dont know... It may be that vampries and the griblyness of the undead dont attract religous folk but meh...

 

[The Dark Lord Mr Fluffy]

First the bible is not just one book. Its a compilation of numerous books. 3 of which are the gospels. So you have 3 different sources telling the same story.

Aren't there 4 gospels? After all, that is what makes up the chirstian's new testiment.

Essentially if the Gospels had lies about Jesus in them there would have been witnesses present to say they were lies... But there wernt.

The Gospels were written long after Jesus had died, roughly 50 years, and back then people didn't have a long life span. Many of these people whom were asked could have been old and senile, and therefore not reliable. "I think that Jesus fellow healed a cripple back 20 years ago.. or else the cripple just moved to another street. I'll say it was a miracle."
They could have talked to their children, but second generation witnesses are hardly accurate.
The rest of the bible was pieces together from stories traded by word of mouth, which can be changed so much. Take for example the game "Chinese whispers", which is basically the same as passing things by word of mouth, where you whisper something into the persons ear next to you, not repeating it. After 30 or more people, what you say becomes changed and has a completely different meaning.

Have a look at these examples from the bible - and as all bibles are the exact same, you can feel free to look them up if you so wish:

God good to all, or just a few?

PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
_________

War or Peace?

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.
_________

Is Jesus equal to or lesser than God?

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
_________

The sins of the father

ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
_________

Rabbits do not chew their cud

LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

_________

Order of creation
Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:

Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)

Note that there are "days," "evenings," and "mornings" before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim," which is a plural, thus the literal translation, "the Gods." In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that "it was good."

The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:

Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib)

-How orderly were things created?
#1: Step-by-step. The only discrepancy is that there is no Sun or Moon or stars on the first three "days."
#2: God fixes things up as he goes. The first man is lonely, and is not satisfied with animals. God finally creates a woman for him. (funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things)

-How satisfied with creation was he?
#1: God says "it was good" after each of his labors, and rests on the seventh day, evidently very satisfied.
#2: God has to fix up his creation as he goes, and he would certainly not be very satisfied with the disobedience of that primordial couple. (funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things)

And those are just some of the errors as well as the transcript errors that are deffined as "God working in mysterious ways", covering up for when the author and the book say differen't things that contradict each other.

If said Kiddie murdere is truly sorry, wishes to follow Jesus once again and be good... Then yes he is forgiven... I have no problem with forgiving and forgetting.

What if he had killed your child? Could you honestly say that you wouldn't hold a grudge against him? Its human nature to seek equality, or vengance in this case.

Sure the kiddie murderer would have immense guilt for what he did, IMO thats punishment enough.

Some Serial Killers feel no emotions at all, how would they feel guilt if they never could?

God kills children, you know why? He gave us life, he has the right to take it away, NOw children are before the age they know right from wrong, they are innocent, in essence they will ultimatly go to heaven... No child is in hell... really it can be considered a pity killing in a sense. God is saving the kids from having to live a life full of trials and hardships and giving them a free pass into heaven... Alls good.

So a child would be happy that he has missed the joys of life? He would thank god for taking his one chance at life and simply get on with his "life" in heaven, after he has never known anything else. What would his heaven be like? If he has never known anything good or bad? What would be his paradise?

Now for the parents... they will be traumetized, hurt, but in the end they will emerge as better people. Anyone who has to suffer through hardships and looks back on themselves prior to said hardships they will tell you that they learned from the experience and have become better people. These are sent by god to make improve people...

That can happen, I will admit that, but it doesn't always happen. Some people start to hear voices - not gods voice - they just end up losing their sanity (thats an extreme case). Some people take their own lives, some become addicts or alcoholics. Would they thank god for what they had become?

And I dont know... It may be that vampries and the griblyness of the undead dont attract religous folk but meh...

Hehe, sounds believeable to me

Sorry if I'm nit picking, its just this is all I do in religion class (which is compulsery so I had no choice about it, and choose to spice it up) and I've gotten quite good at it

 

[Crimson]

An Article my antisemestic friend submitted to his covens site, make of it what you will, i would recommend you not to read it if you are of the sensitive sort.

The Bible: A Jewish Conspiracy
and
Hoax on the Gentiles


The Bible is a Jewish conspiracy. Christians are deluded under a powerful spell. Christianity is nothing more than a vicious program, with the goals of:

* Forcing the Gentiles to give up all occult knowledge and power so all psychic power is in the hands of select Jews for total control.

* Indoctrinating the the Gentile masses into pacifism and a slave-like mentality of servitude

* Encouraging the Gentiles into giving up all money and worldly goods which is funneled into the hands of the ruling Jews and their Gentile lackeys like Billy Graham

* Preparing the Gentile masses for a one world communist slave state with the ruling Jews in control.

* Channeling Gentile psychic energy and prayers into the "Second coming of Christ" which is in reality the Jewish Messiah as any working of the mind must have a connection.

* Cutting the Gentiles off from their own Tribal Gods and Demi-Gods, whose identities have been altered and replaced with fictitious Jewish characters. Our True Creator God has been denegrated, viciously and heinously insulted and blasphemed and relegated to the enemy of humanity.

"May his name and memory be blotted out."
-The Jewish Talmud


The list is endless and it is so glaringly obvious what was done. Now, we all know the Nazarene is fictitious. The Jews themselves know it and don't believe in him as he is a lie based upon some 20+ crucified "saviors" stolen from Gentile pantheons around the world.

I have put a lot of effort and time into researching the Bible, as so many people have serious hang-ups because of intense indoctrination with Christiainty and the psychic power that has gone into it. It is obvious the Bible is a hoax and a lie.


"We shall now endeavor to answer the question which must naturally arise in the minds of all who see for the first time, the similarity in the legends of the Hebrews and those of other nations, namely: have the Hebrews copied from other nations, or, have other nations copied from the Hebrews? To answer this question we shall; first give a brief account or history of the Pentateuch and other books of the Old Testament from which we have taken legends, and show about what time they were written; and second, show that other nations were possessed of these legends long before that time, and that the Jews copied from them."
- Bible Myths And Their Parallels in Other Religions By T. W. Doane © 1882, page 92


"THERE IS NO GOD BUT MYSELF" "KNOWING THIS, WHO DARES WORSHIP THE FALSE GODS OF THE KORAN AND BIBLE?"
-SATAN
FROM THE QU'RET AL-YEZID


The Creation:
"Structurally, Genesis 1-11 presents a fascinating insight into how the Bible evolved from a collection of polytheistic myths and legends from various cultures into a mostly coherent monotheistic account of Israelite history."
- 101 Myths of the Bible by Gary Greenburg © 2000; page 3

In summary, every character in the bible was stolen form Pagan Gentile religions and replaced with a Jewish character:


* Jewish monotheism was stolen from Egyptian Akhenaton

* The Jewish creation was stolen from the Egyptian Creation ¹

* The Jewish Yahweh's use of the word to create was stolen from the Egyptians (Jewish Yaweh replaces Ptah) ²

* "Let there be Light" was stolen from the Theban Creation epic.³

* The "firmament in the midst of the waters…" was stolen from the Egyptian Creation4

* Adam and Eve were stolen from the Egyptian Geb and Nut 5

* Eve coming from Adam's rib was stolen from the Epic of Enki and

Ninhursag: "My brother what hurts thee?
"My rib hurts me"
ANET, 41.
Ninti who's name means
"Lady of the Rib" cured Enki's rib6

* Adam and Eve's punishment and loss of immortality were stolen from the Mesopotamian story of Adapa
(Jewish Yaweh replaces Sumerian Enki)7

* Jewish Cain, Abel and Seth were stolen from Osiris, Set and Horus8

* The conflict between Cain and Abel was stolen from Set and Osiris and as the story goes on, it is later based upon the Sumerian Dumuzi and Enkimdu 9

* Jewish Samson was stolen from Heracles,


o The putting out of his eyes is based on Oedipus

o The pulling down of the pillars was stolen from the Egyptian tale about Re-Herakhte10

* The Jewish story of Jacob and the Ladder was stolen from the Egyptian Funerary Rituals for the deceased King

"Hail to thee, O Ladder of God, Hail to thee, O Ladder of Set. Stand up O Ladder of God, Stand up O Ladder of Set, stand up O Ladder of Horus, whereon Osiris went forth into heaven.” “The Egyptian Ladder consisting of the bodies of two Egyptian deities upon which Osiris ascends into heaven, has been replaced by a ladder with several supernatural beings, angels, climbing up and down between earth and heaven."11


* Jewish Moses was stolen from several Gods and kings, depending on what stage of his life story:


o Sargon (the birth and abandonment in the river, being rescued by royalty, etc)

o The wanderings in the desert were based upon the Sun-God Bacchus as seen in the Hymns of Orpheus 12

o The Hebrew stint of "40 years in the desert" claimed in the Jewish book of Exodus and the subsequent "40 day and 40 nights" wanderings in the desert of the Jewish Nazarene were stolen from:
"The struggle of Set and Horus in the desert lasted forty days, as commemorated in the forty days of the Egyptian Lent, during which time Set, as the power of drought and sterility, made war on Horus in the water and the buried germinating grain....These forty days have been extended into forty years, and confessedly so by the Jews."13

* Jewish Joshua was stolen from the Egyptian Deities Shu and Nun.14

* Jewish Deborah was stolen from the Egyptian Goddess Neith 15

* Jewish Noah was stolen from Sumerian Ziusudra
The fictitious Jewish God Yaweh in the Noah story replaced the Sumerian God Enlil, aka Beelzebub

* Noah's son Jewish Ham was stolen from Belus 16

* Jewish Nimrod was stolen from the Egyptian Pharaoh Sesostris17

* Jewish Abraham was stolen from King Hariscandra of the Hindu Sankhayana-Sutras
* Jewish Isaac was stolen from King Hariscandra's son Rohita
The fictitious Jewish God Yaweh in this story replaced the Hindu God Varuna18

* Jewish character Daniel was stolen from Egyptian Neferti 19

* Jewish Jonah and the whale; Jonah was stolen from the Hindu character "Saktideva" found in the Somadeva Bhatta.

* The "Twelve Tribes of Israel" like the Twelve Disciples of Christ are based upon the twelve signs of the Zodiac.

* Jewish Lot and his wife were stolen from the Greek Orpheus and Eurydice
Jewish Yaweh replaces the Greek God Hades

* Jewish Jacob and Jewish Esau were stolen from Horus and Set20

* Jewish Rebekah was stolen from The Egyptian Goddess Isis21

* Jewish Joseph with the eleven brothers was stolen from Egyptian Psammetichus22

* Jewish story of Joseph and Potipher's wife stolen from Egyptian Anubis and Bata23

* "The Ten Plagues" against Egypt were grossly exaggerated and altered and stolen from the Ipuwer Papyrus 24

* The Ten commandments was stolen from The Code of Hammurabi Jewish Yaweh replaces the Sumerian Sun God Shamash aka Azazel25

* Jewish David killing Philistine Goliath were stolen from Thor throwing a hammer at Hrungnir and striking him in the forehead.26

* The Jewish Job was stolen from Ugaritic Keret and Jewish Yaweh replaces the God "El."

* The Jewish "Job," was stolen from a story written in the Ugaritic language (Cuneiform Script), composed circa 1400 BCE by "Ilimilku The Scribe." This epic involves "Keret" and the God "El." NOT Job and Jehova. Keret's family tragedies and illness are comparable with the story of Job. In the original tale, "Satan" never even entered into the picture.
Here, Jewish Jehova replaces El27

By creating opposing Gods, one "good" and the other "evil" the Jews have been able to manipulate the world beyond belief.

"THERE IS NO GOD BUT MYSELF" "KNOWING THIS, WHO DARES WORSHIP THE FALSE GODS OF THE KORAN AND BIBLE?"
-SATAN
FROM THE QU'RET AL-YEZID


* The Jewish book of Proverbs, along with the writings in the book of Ecclesiastes were stolen from the Teachings of Egyptian Ptah-Hotep.28

* Many of the writings in the Jewish book of Joshua were stolen from The El Amarna Letters29

The Jewish book of Judges is comprised of material stolen from:

* The Story of Aqhat
* The Diary of Wen-Amon
* The Gezer Almanac30

* The Jewish books of Samuel and Kings contain stolen material from: The Mari Prophecies
* The Stele of Mesha
* The Karatepe Inscription
* The Annals of Shalmaneser III
* The Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III
* The Annals of Tiglath-Pileser III
* The Annals of Sargon II
* The Siloam Inscription
* The Yavne-Yam Inscription
* The Lachlish Letters
* The Arad Ostraca
* The Annals of Sennacherib
* The Annals of Nebuchadnezzar II

* More stolen material in the biblical books of Ezra and Nehemiah from: The Cylinder of Cyrus31



* Jewish Mordecai stolen from the Babylonian God Marduk32

* Jewish Esther and the Jewish book of Esther was stolen from Ishtar, aka Astaroth, Astarte, Ashtar.33

* The Jewish Virgin Mary "Queen of Heaven" was stolen from Astaroth

* Jewish John the Baptist stolen from Anup, baptizer of Horus; both lost their heads.34

* Jewish Judas was stolen from Set.35

* Jewish Matthew was stolen from Thoth 36

* Jewish Thomas was stolen from Tammuz 37

* "Like Jesus, the Greek God Hermes was also wrapped in swaddling clothing and placed in a manger, as was Dionysus." 38


"THERE IS NO GOD BUT MYSELF" "KNOWING THIS, WHO DARES WORSHIP THE FALSE GODS OF THE KORAN AND BIBLE?"
-SATAN
FROM THE QU'RET AL-YEZID


The Gentile Gods wound up in the grimoires of blasphemy.

"No other people has ever been so conscious of ultimate primacy through supernatural intervention. This has given them cohesion and courage to persevere in the face of persecution and decimation. The conviction that every jew will one day share in his divine destiny as a member of the world's ruling race has made him proud and has enabled him to survive unassimilated among the nations of the earth."
"Included in the promised inheritance was a deliverer or messiah to bring about "the kingdom." This messiah would be either a temporal, human leader who with his armies would overthrow the enemies of Israel, or a supernatrual being who would do likewise, establishing an "everlasting" Jewish kingdom as well." "The Jewish imperialism would thus come as the awaited deliverer destroyed the enemies and gave their booty to Israel. As Larson says 'This Messiah shall bring judgement upon the Gentiles and they shall become the slaves of Judah..."
The above two paragraphs were excerpts taken from The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold by Acharya S. © 1999 taken from pages 325 and 326


"THERE IS NO GOD BUT MYSELF" "KNOWING THIS, WHO DARES WORSHIP THE FALSE GODS OF THE KORAN AND BIBLE?"
-SATAN
FROM THE QU'RET AL-YEZID

The purpose of the bible was:

* To give the Jewish people a history they never had

* To give the Jewish people a special status as the "Chosen of God"

* To enable the Jewish people to advance in their quest for world domination. The gentiles have been disarmed and spoon-fed a pacifistic anti-life philosophy with Christianity

* To keep all occult, psychic and mind power under the control of the Jews and disarm the gentile populations psychically.

* For the Jewish secret cabal to seize and direct as much psychic energy as possible into the coming of their "messiah" who will unite the Jews and rule the world. (This is the fictitious Christ, - the Jews themselves know Christ is fictitious- the "Temple of Solomon" and various other faces of the same theme).

* Because the multitude of characters, numbers and stories were stolen and altered from gentile sources, they are strong enough in the gentile racial memory to use as a powerful psychic tool for manipulation.


Bible Myths And Their Parallels in Other Religions By T. W. Doane Copyright 1882 In closing in the Al Jilwah and Qu’ret al-Yezid, Satan makes it very plain concerning these lies.


"THERE IS NO GOD BUT MYSELF" "KNOWING THIS, WHO DARES WORSHIP THE FALSE GODS OF THE KORAN AND BIBLE?"
-SATAN
FROM THE QU'RET AL-YEZID




REFERENCES:

* ¹ 101 Myths of the Bible by Gary Greenburg © 2000 pages 3-24
* ² Ibid, pages 11-13
* ³ Ibid, page 14
* 4 Ibid, page 17
* 5 Ibid, pages 43-44
* 6 Ibid, page 55
* 7Ibid, pages 56-57
* 8 Ibid, page 9
* 9 Ibid, pages 68-69
* 10Bible Myths And Their Parallels in Other Religions By T. W. Doane © 1882, Chapter VIII "Samson and his Exploits" pages 62-76
* 11page 144, 101 Myths of the Bible
* 12Page 51 Bible Myths And Their Parallels in Other Religions
* 13The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold by Acharya S. © 1999 page 244
* 14101 Myths of the Bible pages 254-255
* 15101 Myths of the Bible pages 258-62
* 16101 Myths of the Bible pages 103-104
* 17101 Myths of the Bible pages 103-104 pages 101, 102
* 18Bible Myths And Their Parallels in Other Religions page 39
* 19Old Testament Parallels - Laws and Stories from the Ancient Near East by Victor H. Matthews and Don C. Benjamin &3169; 1991 pages 235-240
* 20101 Myths of the Bible pages 135-137
* 21101 Myths of the Bible page 138
* 22101 Myths of the Bible page 175-179
* 23101 Myths of the Bible pages 180-181 and Old Testament Parallels pages 41-45
* 24101 Myths of the Bible page 206
* 25Old Testament Parallels pages 62-67
* 26Bible Myths And Their Parallels in Other Religions pages 90-91
* 27Old Testament Parallels pages 201-211
* 28Old Testament Parallels pages 184-188
* 29Old Testament Parallels pages 77-80
* 30Old Testament Parallels pages 85-105
* 31Old Testament Parallels pages 109-143
* 32101 Myths of the Bible page 292
* 33101 Myths of the Bible pages 292-293
* 34The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold page 177
* 35The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold page 171
* 36The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold page 171
* 37The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold page 172
* 37The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold page 191

Other References:

* Popular Dictionary of Assyrian and Babylonian Terminology by F. C. Norton © 2003
* The Literature of Ancient Egypt: An Anthology of Stories, Instructions, and Poetry, Edited by William Kelly Simpson © 1972
* Religions of the Ancient Near East Sumero-Akkadian Religious Texts and Ugaritic Epics, Edited by Isaac Mendelsohn © 1955
* The Ancient Near Eastr Volume I, An Anthology of Texts and Pictures, Edited by James Pritchard © 1958 [/size]

 

[Caerdrath]

Post: #13RE: My Sig
I know I do enjoy this to.

I only stated the universe was eternal when I referenced what popular belief was before the Big Bang was discovered. Now however we are aware that the universe is not eternal but had a beggining.
- Actually, the big bang theorie is'nt considered 'a fact'. Logically, I'd say that the big bang can't have happened out of nowhere, so there must have been something before the big bang and thus we cannot clearly point out a beginning. In fact, personally, I think it's impossible to have a beginning since nothing can come to exist out of emptyness.

Now using the argument you need something to have created the universe, this is what I said is god.
- This is based on nothing. As much as I dont have any proof that a/theGod doesnt exist, you dont have any proof he -does- exist.

Now you seem to reference eternal as being an entity, when it is really a perception of time.
- In the light of your previous argument I came to the conclusion that you saw god as etneral and by the logic of the argument he then would be the same as 'Eternity'.
Personally, I dont see Eternity as an entity, but as a perception of time.

Once again an omnipotent all powerful god would not be hindered by time or space, since both would be his creation. He transcends space and time. Thus it is entirely possible to have existed eternally and then be much more than that.
- If God is as allpowerfull as you say he is, then he has to have controll over all the universe. For that to be possible he has to have controle, and thus be a part of every molecule in the universe. If he is -that- powerfull, then there is absolutely no reason for me to follow any relgion, pray, ask for forgiveness or whatsoever.
Why would I need too? He's a part of me, he knows whats inside me. He knows my motives, my positive and negative sides. And he shall judge me by that.
If he's not -that- powerfull, not part of every living and dead thing in the universe, then I don't want anything to do with him, and there's no reason at all to worship him.

Lastly it is difficult to percieve god, it would be like a blind person trying to describe a mountain, we can feel and travel upon it but never truly get a full sense of what it is. Only when people capable of seeing the mountain and its size ect. can explain to us. In reality these people take form of prophets/ holy men... This is honestly my personal beliefs here so don't take it as fact...
- I wont take it as a fact, I do however respect your believes.

Caer

p.s. I didnt have the time yet to fully read and reply to the rest of the discussion, in time, mayb I will

All things that begin to exist must have a cause (Kalam cosmological argument)right?
The universe began to exist so it must have a cause... right?
I say God is that cause... Yes I am religious.