New 500 point VC army

[scar3crow3]

Hey, I've been playing warhammer for about 2 years now, and mainly skaven. Let me know if this Vampire counts list looks good because I have no idea, they are so different from Skaven:


Vampire with scepter de noir
Invocation of nehek
Reaise dead

15 skeletons full comm. No champ

15 grave guard full comm. No champ
-magic banner of the barrow wight

500 points

 

[Vampire Ron]

500 point Vampire Count lists are very difficult as far as I know. I'd say drop noirot and pick up a summon power. Also, drop the skeletons for ghouls. I believe you also have to have 3 units but I'm sure whoever you're playing wouldn't be too bothered.

 

[ATP485]

You need 2 core units. GG don't count as core unfortunatly. I agree with Ron in taking ghouls for the extra poison attack. I also can't stress how useful a good save on your general is - Flayed Hauberk (armour sv) or Crown of the Damned (ward sv) if you're up against magic.

 

[whtdwrf11]

You need 2 core units.

The two core thing is incorrect.

In 8th edition you only need 25% of your points in core but do need three units plus your general.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Ok in 500 points an army for vamps is tough as you canm only have the one guy with no real power, also you have to remember that skeletons in combat are terrible, they are zombies +1 in effect, no weapon skill as to speak of and 25% more costly than others core which have bettwer WS.

So you need to think to yourself, what can really bring the pain and how do I stay alive whilst doing it?

Vampire: 120 Points Total
Summon Ghouls
Charmed Shield

Corpse Cart

18 Ghouls

10 Ghouls

10 Ghouls

Total points: 499

The Ghouls are toughness 4 and resilient to harm and their poison allows them to hack through allot better units than themselves also.
The CC will give you ASF so you know you are going to do some dammage incombat and possibly give you rerolls as well, howeveryou have to remember it has regeneration and causes terror, this model may not be great in combat but can still swing a battle in your favour.
The Vampire will have a 2+ save from the first hit whilst hiding ain a ghoul unit, useful if you get shot at which you will being VAmpires and the death of your general effectivly heralding the death of your army.
Also because you now have summon ghouls you can now spam invocation on your troops making use of these ample power dice whilst at 500 points, this in effect will more than likely give you an army twice the size you started with by the time you reach your foe.

I hope this helps, good luck.

 

[Grish]

Vampires fare poorly at 500 pts.

The hero is key, and only has 25pts to spend on Vampire Powers/Items. If they kill your hero, your army will crumble quickly (and 25% of your army is gone with that one model removal). You lose your hero, you likely lose the game.

There are two main options:
Hide the hero
Give the hero protection.

Your army list will revolve around that choice.

The main things you'd want at this level of points is: Summon Ghouls, Flayed Hauberk. That's it. Flayed Hauberk provides the best protection, Summon Ghouls is amazing and lets your level 1 wizard cast spells. If you choose summon ghouls, you have no protection; just T4, and W2, with not a lick of armour or ward save.

My lists for the two approaches:
Vamp Hero (125)
Summon Ghouls, Talisman of Lycni

Ghouls x10 + champ = 88
Ghouls x10 = 80 (vamp goes here)
Grave Guard x15
- Great Weapons, Standard = 207
=500
The Great Weapons are optional, but are one of our only options at this level dealing with High Armour opponents. We have low I, so likely even with HW&S we'd be going last. Step Up can be affected at this low level of points, so the GW aren't as good but still give a necessary tool.

Ghouls w. Champ and Grave Guard are in front, Vamp bunkered behind. Vamp uses 2 dice each turn casting IoN to make the ghouls bigger. If the enemy doesn't have shooting/magic, has the option to leave the unit with a M of 9, or if there's a unit coming that he needs to flee from.

Pros to list: Summon Ghouls is terrific. Each successful casting of IoN will give another 3.5 ghouls, so = 28pts worth of models (more if its the champ). That goes a long way in a low powered game.

Cons: Vampire needs a bunker, which ties up 80 pts of models right off the bat. Even raising 80 pts of models, you break even.


Fighty(ish) list:
Vamp Hero
Flayed Hauberk OR Dread Knight (if they have template weapons, Flayed Hauberk. Regular bows/arrows can't target your Dread Knight Character). Dread Knight gives an extra S4 attack each round (horse), S7 on the charge, and M7 instead of 6.

Ghouls x15 w. Champ = 128pts
Grave Guard x19
- Great Weapons
Depending what you play, you may want to include a standard on the Grave Guard, and possibly the Hellfire banner. But every model counts at this level.

Pros: Vamp should go right on the front lines in whatever unit isn't going up against something really hard. No points tied up in a bunker.

Cons: Vamp is a lvl1 wizard with nothing to cast unless you get a lucky roll. He can summon some zombies until you hit combat. Once you're in combat, 2 dice IoN to heal the Ghouls and Grave Guard.


Personally I think Summon Ghouls is stronger.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Now where as we both agree summon ghouls is the things to take.
Ghouls being on only real viable core choice and giving allot of bang for their buck and at the same time making full use of the 2d 6 magic dice, GG on the other hand I find die far to easily with GG in small units, especially at this points level where your foes will hit first they will more than likely crumble into nothingness, something I found out to my chagrin far to often in the past.

Now I find ASF with possible re rolls serves much better with the CC and also gives you somewhere else to save a dice or 2 for which your foe will dread as ASF ghouls with re rolls are nasty.

Lore of vamps is a good lore, however in small points values I always favor death, to be able to kill your foes greatest early on and still have a few ground shaking spells to send his way is far to tempting to pass up, Yes Vampires works better with your army but it all depends on your gaming styles and personal opinion.

Glad to see another take on this though.

 

[Grish]

Forbidden lore is great at low levels. 540 pts is the minimum point level to get it though. Ghouls only have an I of 3 so not many things they would reoll against if given asf by the corpse cart. Against dwarves or liardme it'd be good.

15 gg is small so you need to be careful with them. Debate letting them get charged so you can heal them on your turn.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Forbiden lore is great, thats why I love most small point games being 800, in those points you can have an army but a reasonable choice in what you take.

Ghouls have I3 yes but that still gets them ASF and will reroll against: Empire, Undead, Tomb Kings, Dwarfs, Ogres and Lizardmen in most cases and especially on troops so all in all just over half the armies.
Just really Elves and Chaos to watch out for.
You have to remember its rerolls if its a higher I or if they have the same.

I rather not go with a kill unit made of glass myself, GG are good but in this many points I do not think they can be justice and will become a liability, better using the points elsewhere and use your superior numbers to overwhelm.

 

[Grish]

Ah you're right. I always think that the I has to be higher; this is not true.

I3 is good against most things then. ASF is good against HE though as it takes away their rerolls.

The corpse cart would still be 15% of your army; it's a hefty investment. Plus if you have Summon Ghouls you can always use those powerdice raising more ghouls.

 

[Vampire Ron]

ASF is good against HE though as it takes away their rerolls.

Completely agree with this. You really can't do any damage with High Elf core without those rerolls.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Left out Beastmen as well.

I know its not a small chunk but its survivable with regeneration and at a points level where GG can not give you all that much and ghouls would be able to be essentially unlimited in number with re rolls to hit with poison thats where I am leaning quite heavily atm.
At 75 points you will not find a better choice of none character troop than that anywhere I know.
Also Terror still packs a nice punch and has won me games in its own right.

 

[Grish]

What about beastmen? They don't get ASF.

The issues I have with the Corpse Cart is:
Bound spell. That bound spell does not get a bonus to cast, where as your vampire will get +2 to each casting of IoN. Those extra ghouls are very effective in their own right. So if you're not using the bound spell, you could be using the PD for something else.

It is only S2. However, it does have Thunderstomp.

I see a stronger argument for the Corpse Cart in the combat list, where you are not competing with Summon Ghouls, and where your Vampire will get rerolls to hit.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

That ASF would get re rolls against them as well.
Forgot them as an army, to many years with hordes of Chaos.

It is bound but its power level 3, also it drastically increases the amount of wounds you dish out, is a deterrent in its own right for units to combat and has some very nice little effects.
Yes you would use power dice on it but only when you reach combat, until then its the most defensible thing in your army and it makes people nervous.
Yes its nice to have more ghouls but you will have at least 2 full turns of summoning before combat, you can only get so many in a single combat, also lets remember, I may have 120 ghouls but allot of other people less fortunate have less models with which to dish out the pain.

In combat its not strong but its ability to shrug wounds off and make models flee in abject terror is worth the trade.

All vampire lists are combat lists, we have no range, magic yes but once they get to combat you have to be able to do the damage or our crumbling will ruin us, ghouls are resilient to damage but say they fight a foes like empire swordsmen, they are going to need the ASF to make up for the fact they get no saves, they are cheaper and faster, you need the extras to make the biggest use of all that lovely poison you will have.

 

[Grish]

The Corpse Cart makes models flee in terror? lol
WS2, S2, T4, W3??? Even with Regen, it's not very good in combat.

I define a combat list at 500 pts as a list that has no bunker. All units see combat including the vampire. At higher points, a Combat List is one in which the Lord is focused on close combat.

The rest of the vampire army stays pretty much the same.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Its not great in combat but it has a 5+ save and Regeneration, a bound ASF spell and causes terror.
That is allot of bang for your buck.

The fact is that you can only get so many attacks in combat so using one or 2 dice for a couple of turns to make sure you cause the maximum wounds is the best choice when having to rely on ghouls to do all your fighting.

The Vampire counts army never changes much, we have no really viable choice options.

 

[Grish]

Corpse Cart causes Fear, not terror.

Only against very weak troops will the corpse cart do anything. Even against regular troops (WS3, S3, T3, no armour) it will only cause one or two wounds a round (assuming 12 attacks inc. Thunder stomp. It can hold weak static CR units up (but who sees those units these days?).

We can agree to disagree on how good a corpse cart is then. I feel that something to fight monsters/knights (high T/high AS) troops is needed, hence grave guard. I did however really underestimate the ASF w. ghouls.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

My Mistake I am afraid, it is still however extremely useful, especially without any magic other than raising to rely upon.

I will grant that it is not going to cause wounds but it will not be easy for it to take them either, also its more a support role model, not a attacking one.

I would agree had we 800 point but a small unit of GG with be brushed aside, they have decent Armour, with GG they will be hit easy and with no real save, striking last and because they are WS3 they will not hit half the time and then the few remaining will crumble to dust, in a larger point game I fully support GG but at 500 they are just a liability.

 

[Bishop]

I'd go with something like the list that Grish posted with all the Ghouls if I was forced to play such a small game. The ability to grow/raise the Ghoul units is a HUGE advantage is such a small game.

The "fighty" list that Grish posted isn't legal (normally), as you need to have 3 units (excluding characters).

The best solution is to play bigger games