New 8th rule rumours....We're nerfed!!!

[Pietr Von Carstein]

RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

Few tidbits from Warseer, these changes should give Spirit Host and Bat Swarms a nice boost .

I hope they make spirit hosts usable, but I reckon they will differentiate between swarms and ogres. Just cos they're on the same base size, doesn't mean they'll get the same bonuses.

Spirit hosts aren't swarms . They are ogre sized infantry .

 

[Originman]

The Varghulf will be pretty deadly to anything that doesn't kill him first though. 5 hatred attacks + d6 free hits.

The only thing I'm worried about is people setting him on fire, with the new fire lore stuff.
Every fire spell after the first does an extra d3 hits. With no save those spells will make short work of him.

And infantry won't block LOS to him anymore.

 

[Originman]

Also, just realized. d6 free str 2 hits from Corpsecart! Woo!

 

[Anubis]

RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

Spirit hosts aren't swarms . They are ogre sized infantry .

iirc, there's a rummor floating about from those who've read the new BRB in stores that spirit hosts were given as an example of a swarm type unit... (i'll have to give it a look over when i go down to the local GW today.)

hopefully the forthcomign pdf doesn't classify spirit hosts as swarms! they would absoluetly suck at that point! (they might not get hit by much, but a handfull of low WS, S3 attacks isn't going to kill shit-all!)


as for regen, the way it works is;
if you take a wound from a flaming attack, you lose regen for the remainder of the entire phase! (ie: if a vargulf loses a wound to a fireball spell, he'll lose his regen for the rest of the current magic phase!)
so yep, dispel those burny spells!!! now i can also see the new dragon helm & dragonbane gem becoming must haves on any character with regen! a 2+ ward save vs the burning attack/s will make it very difficult to bypass a character's regen!

cheers!

 

[Pietr Von Carstein]

RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

iirc, there's a rummor floating about from those who've read the new BRB in stores that spirit hosts were given as an example of a swarm type unit... (i'll have to give it a look over when i go down to the local GW today.)

They were but army book trumps rule book so unless they change it in the new errata , which I doubt they will , then the spirit hosts still count as ogre sized . Didn't the old rulebook have ethereals at T7 , did you ever play them that way ?

 

[TheZombieSquig]

RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

Didn't the old rulebook have ethereals at T7 , did you ever play them that way ?

They were never played that way AFAIK; it was just at the back of the BRB, not in the army books.

Since the wound table is changing (Ns replaced with 6s) so everything can be wounded by everything, I really hope they don't push T7 on ethereals.

 

[Pietr Von Carstein]

RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

Didn't the old rulebook have ethereals at T7 , did you ever play them that way ?

They were never played that way AFAIK; it was just at the back of the BRB, not in the army books.

Since the wound table is changing (Ns replaced with 6s) so everything can be wounded by everything, I really hope they don't push T7 on ethereals.

That was my point . What the rulebook says about individual units stats and rules means nothing .

 

[chefsdad]

ethereals are exactly the same if i remember rightly

 

[Pietr Von Carstein]

ethereals are exactly the same if i remember rightly

I know . I was using the ethereals as T7 example to show that what the BRB says about individual units means nothing without an errata .

 

[StirogiPerogi]

RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

iirc, there's a rummor floating about from those who've read the new BRB in stores that spirit hosts were given as an example of a swarm type unit... (i'll have to give it a look over when i go down to the local GW today.)

They were but army book trumps rule book so unless they change it in the new errata , which I doubt they will , then the spirit hosts still count as ogre sized . Didn't the old rulebook have ethereals at T7 , did you ever play them that way ?

Spirit Hosts are indeed a swarm unit. It looks like the VC's will have no Monstrous Infantry. However; the Corpse Cart gets a "Crush Them" D6 extra attacks.

 

[Pietr Von Carstein]

Look a the spirit host entry in the army book . It doesn't say they are swarms . They are infantry on 40mm bases => ogre sized => stomp attack .
Unless its changed in the errata in which case I'll look like an idiot .

 

[Sception]

Um, the stomp attack is a function of the monstrous infantry unit type, not of base size. Spectral hosts aren't listed as monstrous infantry in the vamp book, just regular infantry, so no stomp.

Unless you're saying the 8th edition rulebook overrides the spectral hosts unit entry, in which case you go by whatever unit type the 8th ed rulebook says they are (which I don't recall at the moment) - which is what I'd say to do, anyway. Otherwise wolves are cavalry and not warbeasts, and so on.

 

[TheZombieSquig]

That's what I said pages ago, just because they share a base size doesn't mean they are able to stomp on things. We need to wait for the errata, because if they are not specifically qualified as ogre-sized then we shouldn't assume the benefits.

 

[Crypt Keeper]

I think it clarifies monstrous units by base size in the new rulebook.

 

[LevDaddy]

Quick 8th edition Q, forgive me if it has been asked - Can Ward/Regen saves be taken for wounds caused from Loss of Control??

 

[TheZombieSquig]

Quick 8th edition Q, forgive me if it has been asked - Can Ward/Regen saves be taken for wounds caused from Loss of Control??

I don't know. The "wizard is removed from play" effect probably won't allow a save of any kind, whereas hits probably do. Another question is, do the new MR saves work?

 

[LevDaddy]

Look a the spirit host entry in the army book . It doesn't say they are swarms . They are infantry on 40mm bases => ogre sized => stomp attack .
Unless its changed in the errata in which case I'll look like an idiot .

I just saw the BRB at my LGS today and can confirm that Spirit Hosts are indeed swarms. I looked up the swarm rule and Swarms function as Skirmishers.

Makes sense considering the Spirit Hosts are just loosely grouped ghosts on a single base. Seems like our Ethereals in general are pretty nerfed.

 

[Fodderboy]

I just saw the BRB at my LGS today and can confirm that Spirit Hosts are indeed swarms. I looked up the swarm rule and Swarms function as Skirmishers.

I think having the hosts as skirmishers is actually quite helpful, as one thing I've had trouble with is effectively manouvering my hosts into pesky little things like fanatics, because they tend to shoot off the flanks.

Be honest, was anyone going to buy 360 points of spirit hosts so they could brake ranks with them? They are a wall/tarpit, and now they have added maneuverability to better get into really annoying positions, and now must be unengaged to be flanked.

We've now got 3 sets of skirmishers on 40 x 40 bases!

 

[LevDaddy]

I think having the hosts as skirmishers is actually quite helpful, as one thing I've had trouble with is effectively manouvering my hosts into pesky little things like fanatics, because they tend to shoot off the flanks.

Be honest, was anyone going to buy 360 points of spirit hosts so they could brake ranks with them? They are a wall/tarpit, and now they have added maneuverability to better get into really annoying positions, and now must be unengaged to be flanked.

We've now got 3 sets of skirmishers on 40 x 40 bases!

Well said, that's a good point. I didn't really think of the free reform/movement aspect, that will help a lot. It is pretty cool to have all those skirmishers in our foot-slogging army.

I still think they took a hit though. Simply because armies that in 7th would have taken zero magic offense get decent access to magic damage with very little investment. I will definitely try some out though. They can still trap a Hydra for the game. Also, since there's no more outnumber, you can win combat on the charge by one with but a few Ethereals against a monster, even if you do no damage.

 

[FatOlaf]

I think having the hosts as skirmishers is actually quite helpful, as one thing I've had trouble with is effectively manouvering my hosts into pesky little things like fanatics, because they tend to shoot off the flanks.

Shame they don't have 360 LOS anymore in 8th, and the rules for Skirmishers make them quite hard to move now, not sure it actually is a good thing they are now swarms..

I really like 8th (having had the book for 3 weeks now), but a group of us, most who have VC, sat down and worked out the implications for VC, answer, it's going to be very different now chaps. The magic system now with it's random nature and rules for not casting are going to make life very tough for VC, no more spamming bascially, unless you invest in loads of necros..

I sold my VC army as a result, moved onto pastures new (beasts! :O)

If anyone has any questions about the rules, please ask...

Ol

 

[Lyracian]

If anyone has any questions about the rules, please ask...
Ol

There is a lot of debate about how "Look Out Sir" works for mounted characters. Can you cast a burning brand over them?

 

[Count Darvaleth]

I don't think mounted characters get Look out unless they're in a unit that is mounted....in standard infantry they don't get it if the character's mounted.

But why bother? Talisma of Lycni/Flying Horror. Sorted. If you're going to have a mounted character in an infantry unit, don't. Just make him have high movement.

 

[Fujin]

You only get a "Look Out, Sir!" roll if you are in a unit of the same 'type' (e.g. infantry, cavalry, monstrous infantry) or if you are within 3" of such a unit when you are by yourself.


Why on earth do you want a high movement individual character? So he can move between units easier? Why take the risk of solo charging a flying/Lynci Vampire at a warmachine with the random movement? Even a flying Vampire is 10" + 3D6" (dropping the lowest dice). Solo charging characters are not the done thing.

The best reason now to mount a character (e.g. via Dread Knight) is to get the 2+ save. The disadvantage then being no "Look Out, Sir!" roll in an infantry unit. I know I'll only be running Dread Knights in mounted units.

 

[Count Darvaleth]

Why on earth do you want a high movement individual character? So he can move between units easier? Why take the risk of solo charging a flying/Lynci Vampire at a warmachine with the random movement? Even a flying Vampire is 10" + 3D6" (dropping the lowest dice). Solo charging characters are not the done thing.

I was just answering his question..... he wanted high movement, I don't know why...

 

[N.I.B]

Why on earth do you want a high movement individual character?

For the same reasons you wanted him in 7th ed, of course. He might have lost in charge predictability but he still marches 18" and he gained in combat (outnumbering is gone).

I've forgotten my probability math skills, can someone do the number crunching on the average of 3D6 minus the lowest die roll please?