New Characters For New Book

[Sception]

Ankhat or whatever his name is in the Nagash books isn't a renamed Vashanesh. He's not Neferata's husband. He doesn't receive a ring from Nagash that controls the other vampires or makes him immortal. He never even meets Nagash, fleeing instead to northern lands after the fall of Lahmia and never serving Nagash in the first place. In fact, the only one of Lahmia's original vampires who goes to Nagash is Wosoran, and it is Wosoran and Arkhan who lead Nagash's armies against Nehekhara, not Vashanesh and not Ankhat either. None of the elements of Vashanesh's story are there in Ankhat. So no, the Nagash books don't rename Vashanesh. It's not even like with Ushoran, who is vastly and arbitrarily changed, but still somewhat recognizable. Vashanesh is simply removed wholesale, replaced by an entirely different character.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

I said Vashanesh is Vlad, it says those very words in nights dark masters, no room for interpretation, just a statement of fact.
Page 75 and 76 of the book though it also mentions it again in a much shorter way but I don't want to have to go looking in the book for it.

I am more than aware of who sided with Nagash but going back to the ring, in the Liber Nercis it goes into allot of detail on the rig explaining it would not bring him back but enhance the vampires powers of regeneration bringing him back to life much swifter than it would otherwise, it also explained that vampires even when dead and dust are not gone but in fact can recover themselves and if not powerful enough others can do it for them.
The Gem itself was a device used to attempt to enslave the vampires under Nagash by using Vashanesh as his general who was tricked into using the ring and not aware it was a device to do so which is why he allowed himself to be cut down so whilst he was recovering the vampires were able to flee to the north.

Then again all GW story books change allot and twist facts, mainly because they can not keep their own lore straight,its a poor showing but thats what we have to deal with.

 

[Sanai]

They say that Ankhat is the lordly one, meaning that he is in essence the replacement for Vashanesh. They update fluff, its something they do. He didnt side with Nagash in the updated fluff because he felt it was a bad idea.

 

[Sception]

He's not a renamed character, he's a replaced character. They replaced Vashanesh with Ankhat in the Nagash books. It's not just a renaming if none of the other aspects of his story are there, and none of them are.

As DDM mentions, in Night's Dark Masters, which as far as I'm aware is also still canon, Vlad is Vashanesh, and the Carstein Ring is the Ring Nagash gave to Vashanesh, which according to the Nagash books never existed. The canon is in direct contradiction regarding this matter. Hopefully the new Army Book makes clear which version is going to be used going forward.

Honestly, even as a Von Carstein fan, I don't care too much either way. Vashanesh's story is cool and all, but it steals a lot of the limelight from Neferata, who, as the first vampire, should have the most prominent role in their origin story, as she does in the Nagash books. On the other hand, Ankhat is a dreadfully boring throwaway character who doesn't really do anything of note, so it would kind of be disappointing for the most prominent vampyric bloodline Warhammer history to originate with him.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

From what I have seen, the following are almost certain in the new book:

Vlad
Isabella
Krell
Kemmler

Personally, I think the following are likely as well:

Mannfred
A Ghoul king based vamp
A Lahmian based vamp

The last two are based on new models to the range.

 

[Sception]

You can put manny and in the 'almost certain' category, at least as a lord. I heard somewhere that they're dropping the hero version, though I can't find the source anymore, so I'm not sure. Konrad also should be pretty reliable.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

I really hate it when GW change things, thats why I rely on the background books for details and not novels, the only thing they are good for is references to items and where they were at the time.
Considering the Carstein ring is mentioned in everything prior in one form or another, especially in the Liber Necris I find it hard to believe they would remove it from existence.

I can see what you mean but she was a puppet for many years and was taught to create the elixir she did, Vlad was by far the most active even back then among the vampires and a master general and strategist, ever since the old days she has been off sulking plotting and making as much effort as to screw others over than as to forward he own plans, has she left her brothers kingdom alone who could say where we would of been now?.....
After all she did not even have the backbone to fight when he city was being burned to the ground but fled leaving her guards then though purely because of her own title she should lead Nagashes armies and not the one most part for the job even though it was her husband....
She plays the part of the typical woman scored and acts the child when she does not get her own way....
Either way though I hope this next book will have soom good SOLID lore.

 

[Sception]

Note that the Nagash books didn't remove the carstein ring from existence, it removed the eye of nagash - the ring Nagash gave to Vashanesh, form existence. Presumably the Carstein ring would simply have some other origin if the Nagash books take precedence in the fluff.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Still have not read them as of yet but its half the ring in effect as they were separated from one another.
I never trust the authors as far as I can throw them so unit they write out a new solid background taking everything into account and giving it to a room of 20 hard core VC nerd to tear apart and correct it accordingly I don't like what I'm seeing.....

 

[Sception]

As I mentioned above, in the Nagash books there is no Vashanesh, so that entire story - being Neferata's husband, leading Nagashes army, having a ring that controlled other vampires, letting his head get chopped off to spite Nagash and allow the other vampires to flee - none of that happens.

Instead, there's a vampire named Ankhat, an aristocrat, who seems more competent then the others - he doesn't let his personal obsessions cloud his judgment the way the other vampires do and stays much more grounded in reality despite the passing years. But other then that, there's nothing to him, he doesn't really do anything, he's just kind of there, and when Lahmia falls he leaves for the north. Presumably much later he moves to Sylvania and becomes Vlad, picking up a magic ring that makes him all but indestructible sometime inbetween, and likely makes up the character of Vashanesh wholecloth to ... impress his progeny, I guess? Make himself seem more legendary?

I don't know. The Nagash books don't cover anything after the great Necromancer's first death, so anything involving the Von Carsteins proper would just be speculation.

 

[The Keeper]

It would be terrible waste if they change or indeed get rid of Vashanesh, as his story is of legend and flows through the ages. Its even suggested in Nights Dark Masters that Vashanesh aided the God-King Sigmar to destroy Nagash, continuing the feud between them. And IF this is true it would part explain why they didnt just burn Vlads body and scatter his ashes into the wind, maybe they are simply holding his body as possible weapon they could use if Nagash should return to power.... just my take on the situation but think it would be a cool twist.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

I get that but then its not a book lore or anything, its a mockery with a GW stamp on it.
He was instrumental in the rise of the Vampire Counts.
I just don't see how you can glass over everything that happens.

You can't rea;;y write him, off either when He is making appearances in allot of books and Neferata herself quoting she loved him the moment she set eyes on him back in nights dark masters.

Whoever wrote that book deserves a good kicking, if they have ever read any background before writing that they have no excuse.

Well they do say they are planing to raise him again so seeing him wander around or even sighted in a book would give a great amount of background and juiciness back to the army.

 

[HERO]

I would kill for Walach Harkon in a book.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Yeh but he will be a god.
WS 9 is not enough, lightning fast, area of effect abilities due to his banner, buffs to Blood Knights, 5+ attacks, heroic killing blow not to mention all the other dirt you would have on him +1 armour, 4+ ward.
He would be a beast and as such get a high points price tag.
Hard to warrant that when your guy can still crumble to death......

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

If you think it would be difficult to have Walach Harkon in the book, then how hard would it be to write rules for Abhorash? Reputed to be the best single warrior in the warhammer world.....those would most likely be some broken rules

I am very surprised as it looks like Manny the Acolyte is still there - I thought he was a poor hero character in this edition, so why they have kept him in is beyond me.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Easy, hitting on a 2+ with reroll, Initative 10 ASF, Heroic Killing Blow on a 3+, Strength 7, Toughness 7, Wounds: 6, Attacks: 8, 1+ Armour Save, 3+ Ward, Immune to crumble, Terror, Roll 3 dice, discard the lowest, level 1 wizard, Movement 8.

Just to have a stab at it.
Not including all his god rules though.

 

[bahamutzer0]

I could see them putting Neferata in for Lahmians or making someone brand new, I mean there really aren't any other Lahmians. Ulrika and Gabriella are only half Lahmian and Genevieve isn't much of one.

 

[Sception]

I am very surprised as it looks like Manny the Acolyte is still there - I thought he was a poor hero character in this edition, so why they have kept him in is beyond me.

They did so for those players who like to run the full set of named VonCarsteins in the same army. Manny's actually a pretty good caster hero in the last book - he has the upgrades you'd want to give a caster vamp her, plus some you couldn't normally take on a hero level character. With the skull staff, he was a level three caster with loremaster: vampires, and that was pretty darn good out of a hero slot.

Who knows what he'll be now.

 

[El Syf]

So the characters we have in the new book were revealed in another thread. The same but Krell and Kemler have been thrown in. Behold the Von Carstein Army book! Oh forgot Ghoul Kings are now Von Carsteins bitches too. It wouldn't have been too much for one character Vampire not from the Von Carstein Bloodline would it? WOC didn't get all Slanesh characters did they?:mad2:

 

[Zephyr]

So the characters we have in the new book were revealed in another thread. The same but Krell and Kemler have been thrown in. Behold the Von Carstein Army book!

Though I've always been a Von Carstein fan I do agree that it's stupid they overlook the other bloodlines so much.
I'm especially surprised the Red Duke is absent after his excellent book. If he had been in there I would have definitely made a themed army around him but now I'm not so sure having to use a general vamp. Might still do it but it is a crying shame. I would have loved a model based on that books cover too!

I'm glad my favorite Konrad is yet again included but two versions of Mannfred is ridiculous as that just takes up space for others.

Never played the other Bloodlines myself but I too would love to see more of them and not just generic models like the coven throne that nods towards Lahmians. Strigoi eh sorry never cared much for them since their intro in the third VC book. But to each his own and I feel they should try and cater towards all fans and include at least one special character from each bloodline.

I hate it when I see clone armies and where Von Carstein used to be special they are now the standard in games.

 

[Grish]

I would rather they get rid of special characters altog6ther, and use that room for more options. Sometimes a special character can't really be accurately represented within the game. Like last edition, Konrad: if he really had those stats, he'd be dead against the first army he went hand to hand against. AS5+. no ward save. That is not Konrad from the fluff. He was much more resilient than that.

 

[Zephyr]

Thought it over and I have to agree with you Grish. Only make the models and give us the option to build them ourselves. The more I think about it the more sense it makes to implement.

Konrad is not the only one that doesn't make any sense fluff wise. I mean Vlad a level 3? Come on now.
Also, with the new rule that a general MUST know the Lore of Vampires poor Konrad cannot even be a real leader anymore :-(

 

[Nosfeatu]

on this idea dof throwing out characters. I have a copy of the original undead army book and it seems this was sort of their intent. The book says there are some pre built characters, but it implies you should use some imagineation and the equipment cards to make your own characters. Also in WD the scenario says the the elven princess lady ( I dont know her name) is represented by a generic lord with certain equpment.

So I guess the tools are mostly there to make the characters from the fluff just w/o the special rules. (i.e. wight king w/lack axe of krell= uh.... krell)

 

[Grish]

I think that was the intent of the entire book called "Undead". How many 'dead' cultures are there?

I really love systems that require you to build your own imagination. I would love to see things like 'monstrous infantry' and then give some examples of what they Could be, but leave the final bit up to you.

Kids really don't use their imaginations these days, and this is a good ground to push it.

 

[Sception]

You can still re-fluff and convert to your heart's content, and the new vampyric powers list does a much better job of representing different bloodlines. I'd rather not have one generic army list and a 'use your imagination' stamp in place of anything cool or unique. I like special rules and special abilities.

And special characters for that matter. I admit some could be better represented (konrad, I'm looking at you), and I would have liked to see some from the other families - the Red Duke springs to mind, but it shouldn't be surprising that the Von Carsteins get the most play in the special characters section - they're the family that has the most variety and personality of all of them.

And it's no coincidence that they're the vampires who were named in the fluff before the split between kings & vamps and the introduction of bloodlines, as all the characters introduced after that were just generic copies of their bloodline cliches. All blood dragons have exactly the same personality and attributes, even the same history to a large extent. Same for all Lahmians, all Necrarchs, and all Strigoi. Why do you even need special characters for these bloodlines when each one is exactly the same as any other given one?