New Nightshroud Query

[Draemock]

Whilst I know that what is written in White Dwarf *unless it is official rules* Isnt written in stone. I am curious about the new Nightshroud.

My problem is this, In the latest edition of WD, a sample vampire has Heavy Armour, Shield and Nightshroud. Now My understanding of the rules can, at times be...spotty at best. But I was under the assumtion that you could not use a Magic Amrour with Mundae, however the wording for Nightshroud gives me furher confusion.

Whilst it is listed in the Magic Armour section, it doesnt state Light or Heavy Armour....it just says increases armour save by +1. After asking a friend about this he explained it as thus

"You can use the armour save benifit from the Heavy armour but the effects of the nightshroud. It doesnt replace the heavy armour as it isnt classed as any armour type.....an exception I think to the rule...at least If you played that gear choice with me id play it like this."

Anyone who has a better grasp of the rules have a better explanation?

 

[Bravo_10]

Try to think of the Nightshroud as similar to the Dragonhelm, which also adds +1 to the wearer's armor save and has a special effect. It's an additional piece of armor that doesn't fit into the category of 'Standard Armor' or 'Shield.' It's an item that's likely worn over top of both. So yes, you can certainly wear Heavy Armor, The Nightshroud, and a Shield for a 3+ armor save, plus you get the cool magical bonus from the Nightshroud.

 

[Draemock]

Thank you!!!!! makes my unlife soooo much easier now....also makes my friends chaos hero a little more killable now as he loses his strength bonus so i at least GET an armour save

 

[Count Darvaleth]

Thank you!!!!! makes my unlife soooo much easier now....also makes my friends chaos hero a little more killable now as he loses his strength bonus so i at least GET an armour save

It's a shame we can't make our Vampires ethereal. Ethereal Nightshrouds would be most entertaining.

 

[Wargamer]

It even makes sense it stacks. It is a shroud, it goes over your armor.

 

[Jacques Dauger De Cavoye]

I have a question concerning the nightshroud as well. If you equip a Lord on a zombie dragon and give him the nightshroud, do models in contact with the dragon take the magical effect. I'm just about positive you don't, because that would be kind of broken, and I feel I may have heard this already, but I was just checking as it would make my day if my ZD could charge into units of great weapons and be unafraid.

 

[TMS]

I have a question concerning the nightshroud as well. If you equip a Lord on a zombie dragon and give him the nightshroud, do models in contact with the dragon take the magical effect. I'm just about positive you don't, because that would be kind of broken, and I feel I may have heard this already, but I was just checking as it would make my day if my ZD could charge into units of great weapons and be unafraid.

I don't see why it wouldn't work with the dragon's base. The nightshroud affects enemies in base contact with the wearer and while the dragon is still alive, it and the wearer shares the base. Other items that affects models in base contact work with larger-sized mount bases as well, like WoC with their blasphemous talisman on a Nurgle palanquin.

Just remember that those GW troops will still be able to strike back with the 8th edition rules, unless you kill every last one of them.

 

[maxtoreador]

I have a question concerning the nightshroud as well. If you equip a Lord on a zombie dragon and give him the nightshroud, do models in contact with the dragon take the magical effect. I'm just about positive you don't, because that would be kind of broken, and I feel I may have heard this already, but I was just checking as it would make my day if my ZD could charge into units of great weapons and be unafraid.

We have another thread where we discussed this, if I find it again I'll edit this with a link. Near as we can tell BtB is determined by who is available for fighting your model in CC, as the rider and all the models touching the Dragon are in BtB for attacking purposes then the shroud DOES effect them.

 

[baynexilos]

what about supporting attacks does it affect them?

 

[TMS]

what about supporting attacks does it affect them?

Nope, it should not. They fight "through" a friendly model that is in base contact with the enemy, but they're not in base contact themselves.

 

[Zombieboy]

what about supporting attacks does it affect them?

Nope, it should not. They fight "through" a friendly model that is in base contact with the enemy, but they're not in base contact themselves.

That seems silly, they have to move up to attack (in theory) so they should be considered in base contact. I could see spears not being considered as they are attacking with reach.... IMHO of course.

 

[Aeviaan]

Can you use the nightshroud with heavy armor and an enchanted shield for a 2+ save? Or does that count as two magic armor pieces? :/

 

[Bravo_10]

That would in fact be two pieces of magic armor. In this case, you are forbidden from fielding that combo because you can't have two magic items from any one type, like two magic weapons or two talismans.

 

[Forgotten Heretic]

i'm going to add another question to this. if your nightshroud wearing vampire is in base contact with a character that is riding on a monsterous mount of some kind, and that character challenges you but you accept with the unit champion, would the nightshroud affect the character still if the vampire is still in base contact? therefore allowing your champion to benefit from its abilities

 

[SnEaKyGiT]

At a guess I would say it depends how you play out challenges, I prefer to move my guy into base contact with the one issuing the challenge, so as long as you can still keep the vampire in contact I don't see why it shouldn't effect the challenge still.

 

[Jacques Dauger De Cavoye]

I believe it works in a challenge. I remember reading about the sword of anti-heroes working in a challenge against characters because you were counted as BTB. Either way, I'm starting to like this item a lot better. I understand the second rank and back can still get strength bonuses, but effectively neutralizing up to half of their attacks is nothing to be snuffed at.

 

[benaiah]

I believe it works in a challenge. I remember reading about the sword of anti-heroes working in a challenge against characters because you were counted as BTB. Either way, I'm starting to like this item a lot better. I understand the second rank and back can still get strength bonuses, but effectively neutralizing up to half of their attacks is nothing to be snuffed at.

Does it work on the Strigoi Ghoul King? I don't fully understand why Vampire heroes can use magic and armor while the Ghoul king can't. I didn't see any rules that were different between the two that would effect this. Anyone have any insight?

 

[_Revan_]

Does it work on the Strigoi Ghoul King? I don't fully understand why Vampire heroes can use magic and armor while the Ghoul king can't. I didn't see any rules that were different between the two that would effect this. Anyone have any insight?

No, a Ghoul King cannot take the Nightshroud. The reason for this is because he does not have the option to take mundane armor options and has a Wizard Level. He cannot take Magical Armor as per the "Magical Interference" rule stated in his entry in the army list for reference.

Basically, for fluff reasons.

Necromancers are an exception to this, only for the Nightshroud, because it says specifically they can take it.

 

[Hutobega]

But why can normal vampires use armor and magic? and I couldn't find the magical interference rule in the rule book...

 

[Forgotten Heretic]

But why can normal vampires use armor and magic? and I couldn't find the magical interference rule in the rule book...

magical interference is covered on pg 500, pretty much says that vampires can take magic armour because we have the option to buy mundane equipment

 

[midean]

Does it work on the Strigoi Ghoul King? I don't fully understand why Vampire heroes can use magic and armor while the Ghoul king can't. I didn't see any rules that were different between the two that would effect this. Anyone have any insight?

And because a Ghoul King just can't find his wardrobe in the rush to go out and kill things.....

 

[M.Deadman21]

Ive not been able to locate my rule book so I could be wrong, but I thought for the purposes of combat the second row was considered to be in base to bas combat, so a character with a 20mm base, up to three in the front can strike the character but only one in the back is considered in base contact with the 20mm base and so only one in the back can attack, not all three in the back row.
Can anyone with a better knowledge of the rule book correct me on this? That part that explains that the second row can attack and who they can attack? cheers

It doesn’t match the fluff if the back row is unaffected by the shroud “The aura of gloom that clings to it is so strong it can physically manifest, lashing out with shadowy tendrils that grapple with all those who would strike the wearer”

Also the last edition said all models that wish to attack the model with night shroud were effected, my guess this was changed so that an enemy couldn’t avoid the nighshoud effect by simply attacking the models next to the character.

 

[M.Deadman21]

Sorry just to clarify when I say in the back row I meant the second row

 

[VonDookie]

Ive not been able to locate my rule book so I could be wrong, but I thought for the purposes of combat the second row was considered to be in base to bas combat, so a character with a 20mm base, up to three in the front can strike the character but only one in the back is considered in base contact with the 20mm base and so only one in the back can attack, not all three in the back row.
Can anyone with a better knowledge of the rule book correct me on this? That part that explains that the second row can attack and who they can attack? cheers

It states in the BRB on page 48/49 that models who are lending their supporting attacks are not considered in base to base contact with the (for this example) vampire that the model in the front rank might be in base to base with. They are simply allowed to attack from behind the very front line - but are not base to base with the vamp.