New Tomb Kings Rumours!

[Ease]

Our undead brethren seem to be getting an update soonish!

Hallo again. I had a long chat with my source today, getting more and more detailed information on the new Tomb King’s rules. The rules are from the first design script for the new book, or so I was told. So it is a really early bit of information and nothing is safe but I thought you would still like to know.
Personally, I like most of the innovations very much. A very mobile army with tactical special rules - this is definitely going in the right direction.

Special rules:

Undead:
The rule stays the same except for the sentence regarding to the charge reactions: Undeads may not choose to flee as a charge reaction.

The curse:
If a Tomb King or Prince is killed, the model or unit responsible for his death is hit by the curse. This is either the model (or part of model) or unit in case of usual warriors who caused the final wound (it is irrelevant in which way) or, if the character was killed by the combat resolution, every enemy unit and model engaged in the combat. The models and units hit by the curse must immediately take a leadership test on their own leadership minus 2 (minus 1 in case of a Prince). If the test is failed, the model (or part of model) or unit looses D6 wounds with no safes of any kind (not even a ward safe or regeneration) allowed. In case of units or models with different parts which are hit because the character was killed by the combat resolution, the wounds are distributed like shooting.

Embalmed:
Tomb Kings and Princes are mummified in dry bandages and inflammable oils. They are flammable.

My will be done!:
At the beginning of each own magic phase, the Tomb King or Prince and his unit get an extra movement phase at a roll of 3+ (4+ in case of a prince) on a D6. No unit can get more than one movement phase in a magic phase, no matter how many Princes and Kings are attached to the unit. However, if one King or Prince fails his roll, another one may try.

Master of the dead:
If a Liche Priests or a Liche High Priest rolls a miscast, the spell simply doesn’t work with no further effect.

Armed to the teeth:
The Bone Giant Elder carrys two hand weapons, a great weapon, a giant bow and a shield he wears heavy armour, standing up from the grave prepared for every battle.

Undead construct:
An undead construct has a 4+ armour safe which can be combined with amour and shield as well as magic resistance (2). Furthermore, every undead construct (i.e. Bone Giant, Bone Giant Elder, Tomb Scorpion and every single Ushabti in a unit) adds an extra +1 to the combat resolution. An undead construct has neither flanks nor a back but always counts as fighting in the front. Still a unit of Ushabti is not turned to face the opponent with the front but keeps the formation. The enemy simply gets no bonuses for fighting in the flank or back. Note that bone giants (and elders) don’t get a hand weapon & shield bonus.

Corpseguard:
If a Liche Priest or Liche High Priest is attached to a unit with this special rule, he can never be targeted by shooting and may always use the Look out Sir! Rule. In fact, for the purpose of being hit by ranged attacks, the Priest is treated as if the unit was at least 5 models big.

Ritual Blades:
All Ushabti attacks count as being magical. They always get a +1 bonus to hit in close combat.

Stone Keepers:
Ushabti are massive statues made from the hardest stone. Ushabti count as if they were wearing light armour. In addition, enemies charging Ushabti loose all charging bonuses. So they cause no impact hits, loose weapon bonuses (such as for lances), don’t automatically strike first and loose all charging special rules they might have.

Incantations of the dead

The secret incantations: The following three incantations are known to all Liche Priests and Liche High Priests. There is no possibility for Tomb Kings or Princes to learn these Incantations.

Incantation of summoning. Cast on 4+
Choose one friendly unit, single model, or character (even in a unit) in 12”. If successfully cast, the chosen target immediately retrieves D3 wounds lost. A unit of Graveguards retrieves D6 wounds (thus models), a unit of Skeletons retrieves 2D6 wounds. Champions, standard bearers and musicians are retrieved first, in this order. In all other cases you may distribute the wounds among a unit at wish (for example between a skull catapult and the crew), still retrieving complete models in case of models with several wounds. Note that you can’t rise the units or models wounds or models above the initial value.

Incantation of urgency. Cast on 4+
Choose one friendly unit, single model, or character (even in a unit) in 12”. If successfully cast, the chosen target immediately gets a second movement phase. Note, that a unit can be moved by this invocation only once in a magic phase. Also note that a unit which was moved by “My will be done” may not be moved by this invocation in the same magic phase.

Incantation of righteous smiting. Cast on 4+
Choose one friendly unit, single model, or character (even in a unit) in 12”. If successfully cast, the chosen target immediately gets a second shooting phase (in addition to the one following). If the unit is engaged in close combat, every model may immediately deal out one attack with all boni and mali it would have in the following close combat phase. Note, that in case of models with different parts, each part may deal out one attack. For example a light chariot would deal out two attacks from the two skeletons and two attacks from the skeleton steeds. Also note that this invocation may be used to absorb the effect of a misfire 2 or three of a catapult in the previous shooting phase. It won’t fire in the magic phase but may fire as usual in the following shooting phase. A unit can be affected by this incantation only once in a magic phase.

The common incantations: The following three incantations can be known to Liche Priests, Liche High Priests, a Tomb King (if he is a wizard) or a Tomb Prince with the holy scroll of dark secrets (magic item making him a level 1 wizard). These incantations are randomly determined as usual. Liche High Priests know two of the common incantations, Lich Priests, Tomb Kings and the Tomb Prince know only one of the common incantations. As usual, all wizards can swap one of their spells for the first one, the Incantation of Bane.

Incantation of bane. Cast on 8+
Choose one enemy model or part of model in case of models with different parts as for example a hero on a monster in 12”. No restrictions on the choice of targets apply. Parts of models that can never be hit, such as a knights horse or a chariot crew, can not be chosen as a target of course. If successfully cast, the chosen target must immediately take a toughness-test and an initiative-test. If one of the tests is failed, the target looses D6 wounds with no safes of any kind (not even a ward safe or regeneration) allowed.

Incantation of rotting vermin. Cast on 7+
Magic missile. Range 18”. Causes 3D6 strength 1 hits with the killing blow special rule.

Incantation of eternal flight. Cast on 5+
Can only be cast on the wizard himself. The wizard is immediately teleported to any place on the field. This way, the wizard may even leave a close combat but not enter one. Simply take the wizard model and place it anywhere on the field with at least 1” distance to enemy models. The wizard may be attached to a friendly unit as long as it isn’t engaged in close combat. If the wizard is riding a skeletal steed, the steed is lost and the wizard appears on foot. If the wizard is riding in the chariot, he leaves the chariot an appears on foot. He can not ascent the chariot again (not even by this incantation). The chariot is now driven by the skeleton only, however if the chariot it a magical one, it keeps its magical properties even without the character.

Armoury

Light chariot
Not changed

Giant bow
Counts as a Bow. Shoots like a spear-thrower. May move and shoot. May stand and shoot. Always hits on 5+.

Viperbow
Counts as a Bow. Always hits on 5+.

The casket of souls
Only one casket per army.
Casket Guards: WS increased by 1, wear heavy armour and great weapons (Tomb Blades).
The casket: The casket of souls is a war machine. It can not move. It can not be destroyed. Only Priests and High Priests may be attached to the Casket. Shooting is randomised between the casket and the crew, ignoring hits against the casket.
When both casket guards are destroyed and there is no Priest or High Priest attached to the Casket anymore at the beginning of an own magic phase, the casket crumbles to dust giving the opponent its victory points.
Spirit Souls: The casket of souls adds 3 dispel dice to the players pool.
The light of death: At the end of each Tomb Kings magic phases, if at least one Priest or High Priest is attached to it, the casket may be opened. Roll one D6 for every enemy unit or model in line of sight of the casket. At a roll of 4+ (2+ if the target has a line of sight to the casket) someone in the unit turned his eyes on the infernal light. Throw 2D6+2 and deduct the units own unmodified leadership (attached characters LD may be used) from the total. This is the number of wounds the unit or model looses with no safes of any kind (not even a ward safe or regeneration) allowed. The wounds are distributes like shooting.
Terror: The casket causes Terror.

Lords

Tomb King
Profile not changed
Weapons and armour: Hand weapon
Magic: A Tomb King is not a wizard. However he may be upgraded to a level 1 wizard for ? Points, using the incantations of the dead.
Options: May carry a flail or a great weapon.
May wear light armour or, if on foot, heavy armour.
May carry a shield.
May ride a skeletal steed or ride in a light chariot, displacing one of the skeletal crew.
May be equipped with magic items with a limit of 100 Points.
Special rules: The curse, Embalmed, My will be done!, Undead

Liche High Priest
Profile not changed
Weapons and armour: Hand weapon
Magic: A Liche High Priest is a level 4 wizard, using the incantations of the dead.
Options: May ride a skeletal steed.
May be equipped with magic items with a limit of 100 Points.
May take a casket of souls to battle.
Special rules: Master of the dead, Undead

Heroes

Tomb Prince
Profile: Strength increased by 1.
Weapons and armour: Hand weapon
Options: May carry a flail or a great weapon.
May wear light armour or, if on foot, heavy armour.
May carry a shield.
May ride a skeletal steed or ride in a light chariot, displacing one of the skeletal crew.
May be equipped with magic items with a limit of 50 Points.
May be the battle standard bearer. In this case he may get a magic banner without a point limit instead of other magic items.
Special rules: The curse, Embalmed, My will be done!, Undead

Liche Priest
Profile not changed
Weapons and armour: Hand weapon
Magic: A Liche Priest is a level 2 wizard, using the incantations of the dead.
Options: May ride a skeletal steed.
May be equipped with magic items with a limit of 50 Points.
May take a casket of souls to battle.
Special rules: Master of the dead, Undead

Bone Giant Elder
Profile: 6 4 2 6 6 7 2 5 9
Equipment: A lot. See special rule Armed to the teeth.
Options: May be the battle standard bearer. In this case he may get a magic banner without a point limit.
Special rules: Undead construct, Armed to the teeth, Big, Terror

Core units

Skeleton warriors
Profile not changed
Weapons and armour: Hand weapon, Viperbow
Unit size: 10+
Options: May exchange their Viperbows for Spears.
May get spears in addition to their Viperbows.
May wear light armour.
May carry a shield.
Upgrade one Skeleton warrior to a champion.
Upgrade one Skeleton warrior to a standard bearer.
Upgrade one Skeleton warrior to a musician.
Special rules: Undead, Corpseguard

Skeleton horsemen
Profile: Skeletons with WS3 and LD4; Skeletal steeds not changed
Weapons and armour: Hand weapon, Viperbow
Unit size: 5+
Options: May exchange their Viperbows for Spears.
May get spears in addition to their Viperbows.
May wear light armour.
May carry a shield.
Upgrade one Skeleton horseman to a champion.
Upgrade one Skeleton horseman to a standard bearer.
Upgrade one Skeleton horseman to a musician.
Special rules: Undead, Light cavalry, Corpseguard

Tomb swarm
Nothing changed

Grave Guard
Profile not changed.
Unit size not changed
Weapons and armour: Heavy armour, shield, hand weapon
Options: Not changed
Special rules: Not changed

Light chariot unit
One unit of light chariot per King or Prince in the army counts as a core unit. Every further unit counts as special unit.
Nothing changed

Special units

Carrions
Profile: Strength increased by 1.
Unit size not changed
Special rules: Not changed

Tomb Scorpion
Nothing changed except for the changes in the “Undead construct” rule.

Ushabti
Profile not changed
Unit size: 1-6
Weapons and armour: Huge ritual blades [count as Halberds]
Options: Upgrade one Ushabti to a champion. [+1 A]
Upgrade one Ushabti to a standard bearer.
May get a magical standard up to 25 Points.
Upgrade one Ushabti to a musician.
Special rules: Ritual Blades, Stone Keepers, Undead construct, Undead

Rare units

Screaming Skull Catapult
Nothing changed

Bone Giant
Profile: WS increased by 1, BS2.
Equipment: Two hand weapons, heavy armour
Options: May change his two hand weapons for a great weapon
May carry a shield.
May carry a giant bow.
Special rules: Undead construct, Large Target, Terror, Undead

Magic Items
There is not a list of magic items yet, only some design notes on the task:

Holy scroll of dark secrets – Princes only – level 1 wizard ~45 points
Some item adding 1 or 2 to M at very low costs ~5 points
A first strike great weapon.
Destroyer of Eternities to be changed.
Fail of Skulls is in and cheaper.
Serpent Staff to be changed.
Scorpion armour is out.
Crown of Kings to be changed - +1 dispel dice. ~25 points
Collar of shapesh is in.
Chariot of fire to be changed – stronger and more expensive.
Cloak of the dunes is out.
Arkane Items to be redone.
Icon of Rakaph is in.
Some magic banner adding +2 or +W3 to the combat result. ~50 points

am not entirely new to this forum as I’f been a silent reader for month but now I got some interesting info from a guy working at GW headquarters so I created an account to tell you.

New Tomb Kings will be out in May 2010. So they will be the last armybook before 8th edition.

I will list up the information he gave me in the following, text in italic are my personal comments on it. Where I write nothing about a unit, it means that either the unit stays as it is or my source had no information about any changes. “Will stay the same” means that the rule or unit would stay unchanged.
Edit: My source didn't know anything about any new units but as he isn't a game designer himself that doesn't mean that there will be none. Personally I am quite shure that there will be at least new miniatures for the skeletons but that is just gessing, I have not heard anything about it.


Undead rule:
- Will stay the same in principle but you may take a stand&shoot reaction now.
That one was expected since the banshee may stand&shoot as well.

Magic:
- Will also stay the same with some minor changes:
-- Incantation of summoning reanimates D6 / 2D6 wounds
-- Tomb princes have 6” range like tomb kings
-- Tomb kings and princes have the option to generate dispel dice and energy dice (dispel spells in play only)
Pft... the adjustment in effectiveness of the incantations is ok, it should be level with the vampire one this way. Princes range is good. Dispell dice for Kings and Princes? Great, I only hope it won't be overpriced.

Undead construct rule:
- Will stay the same

“It came from below…” rule:
- Will stay the same

The curse:
- Will stay the same

Casket of souls
- Will have three different incantations to choose:
-- One incantation healing D3 wounds of all friendly units and characters on the field
-- One incantation similar to the current one
-- One incantation moving D3 units
- Will grant a ward save to it’s crew and attached priests
That sounds great!

Tomb prince:
- Magic changes, see above
- Strength 5
- If a tomb prince is the general you may take one unit of chariots as a core unit
- May be given the battle standard
Looking at the Scar Veteran S and T5 for heros was to be expected. Battle standard for the prince is great.

Battle standard bearer:
- New name (unknown to me)
- May be given the battle standard but may be used without as well
- May ride on a skeleton horse or in a chariot
- No magic
- Killing blow
- WS5, S4, T4, A3
A simple fighting hero without magic and an avarage profile. Ok, especially for friendly games with limited magic but I think the Prince will stay the better choice.

Skeleton warriors:
- Wear light armour without further costs
Decrease of one point would have been better but better than nothing.

Skeleton light horsemen:
- May be given light armour
- May be given Spears and Shields
That shoud give us some interesting taktical options.

Skeleton heavy horsemen:
- Are out!
I won't bemoan the loss of them.

Tomb Guard:
- 9(!) points/model
All right, Grave Guard cost 10 (?) points/model. And they have heavy armour and can make march movements... 9 points is ok I think.

Ushabti:
- 4+ armour save (including undead construct)
- 5+ ward save
- M6
- 55 points/model
That should make Ushabti usable. Not more but usable.

Carrions:
- S4
- Cheaper
Stronger and cheaper? Great!

Tomb scorpion:
- more expensive (about 100 points)
- 5 wounds (!)
Wow, the most extrem change I think. Scorpions with unit size 5 will be nasty!

Bone Giant:
- equipment options (similar to Warhammer chronicles)
The options have been a baublery in the past, they will stay a baublery in the future.

Screaming Skull Catapult:
- Every model touched is hit, not only on 4+.
The way it is in the Skaven book. Maybe a hint of what to come in the 8th edition rule book?

Greetings
Hennesy

Some contradictions there, but isn't that always the way with rumours?

 

[Danceman]

As much as I look forward to the new TK book I must say both these lists looks like someone's wishlist rather than an actual list GW would produce. A Bone giant... as a hero choice? Tomb Guard as core? I also remember 'Corpseguard' coming up as a rule on the TK forums, as well as being a very uncharateristic name for a TK rule. 2nd list also seem more like fan-based list ideas compiled into one. Both share a common factor of feeling very unpolished, not unfinished, but again like they've taken random ideas off users of various boards and just made a list of it.

They seem to contradict with each other abit too much, as in completely different magic sections, character section, special rules, army composition and so on.

Given the GWs recent history of keeping a tight ship I dont think these rumours hold any water. Personally I will not expect anything solid untill the release of the Beastman book, or thereabout. That is, of course, if Tomb Kings actually are the book which will be released after BoC. You never know.

 

[Tutteman]

Agree with above post on the contridictions. But I do feel hopeful for my friend who has TK...
This does seem very unpolished and at best I would say it's a controled leak by GW to try and quality control (PLEASE QC!) and check response.
Of course this could be me being cynical...Never

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

In agreement with Dancerman. Thank you very much for posting it though Ease.

 

[Trevy the Great]

Ooh, if these rumors are true than I would really like them, although they do seem a little too complete for a release that is still six months off. I really like the inclusion of real magic to the Tomb King list, it makes a lot more sense than the silly 'Incantations' rule.
Bone Giant Heroes does seem a little far fetched, though.

 

[Danceman]

Most TK players will probably give out a collective "NOOOOooooo!" if they make the magic phase into normal magic as it is one of the most characterful traits of the TK army. Seperates them from VC and makes sense in regard to the background on TK. I suppose it could work if they did it well but for me I so hope they keep the current version of magic.

Also, I hope I didnt come across as being ungrateful for posting this. It is just that the list presented do not seem very likely to be GW source material.

 

[Ease]

I doubt the rumours' integrity as well, but I had seen this posted on another forum and thought that those at Carpe Noctem at least deserved to see and make judgement on it! On the other forum (not TK btw) users seemed much more... persuaded by the rumours.

The main thing I am taking from the rumours is that hopefully the book will be out in May, and I am really hoping that it will include a huge buff for the Ushabti. As the most awesome looking models in the warhammer range they could do with not being the worst at everything else

 

[Arkhan]

I would guess for a 2010 December release instead if it indeed comes out next year.

 

[Danceman]

There have been talk of a summer of the dead or something. Not sure if GW are making a campaign or whatnot, or dare I say it? A warhammer expansion set!

If the beasties decide to show in feb, then a may release isnt out of the picture. December seems abit pessimistic but I've been wrong before

 

[Arkhan]

Well with GW being really hush hush about anything until 2 months until release lately I find a May/Summer to be wishful thinking.

 

[Danceman]

Release dates tend to be not so hush-hush though, as opposed to the actual content which is very hush-hush indeed. Given the speed of which GW are releasing books now(Skaven just recently and Beasts in feb) expecting a book in may/summer isnt wishful thinking at all but rather following a pattern.
If it is Tomb Kings that are next up after Beasts though, that is something we cant entirely be sure about.

 

[Arkhan]

If a new edition of WHFB is going to be released in time for before summer it might throw doubt on a TK release since they might want to release a lot of other new plastic minis around then.

But then again I'm a negative thinker.

 

[Lord of Ravens]

On the subject of the "Summer of the Dead", I heard tell of a campaign involving Nagash. This was a long time ago, but it seems to all fit together now...

 

[Sanai]

I hope that if they release a whole lot of new plastic minis, that the VC arent neglected.
Comon, some of the models VC still use are horribly out of date. Lizardmen and the skaven both got a full set of new minis with their 7th ed codexes, while I am wondering if I will ever get to use bat swarms+fell bats (I cannot stand to buy such ugly models) And am seriously considering making black knights out of tomb king cav combined with grave guard.

 

[Trevy the Great]

Skaven did get a lot of models, but their range was pretty old as it is. Lizardmen didn't get that many new miniatures, and Vampire Counts got about the same. In fact, Vampires may have got more new minis than Lizardmen did as most of their Core got revamped, so I don't think they need or will get more attention (except new Black Knights ).

 

[Danceman]

There have been talking of new models for VC. The whole deal with summer of the dead works well in that regard, and could be the leadin for the 8th edition.

8th edition rulebook. TK vs VC. TK gets a new book(and together with the starter set they 'encourage' players to start TK) as well as allowing people do the whole "lets buy two sets, take one rulebook each and split the VC and TK models among ourselves" again. While this may seem like wishfulthinking I would say it makes sense from marketing purposes as well. Probably will work better than the BFSP-box since there are plenty of VC players out there and will be plenty of band-wagon TK players(onto of the current TK players) coming along for the ride = $$$ which in turn make GW happy.

...Ok it is wishfulthinking but then again, why not?

 

[Tutteman]

There have been talking of new models for VC. The whole deal with summer of the dead works well in that regard, and could be the leadin for the 8th edition.

8th edition rulebook. TK vs VC. TK gets a new book(and together with the starter set they 'encourage' players to start TK) as well as allowing people do the whole "lets buy two sets, take one rulebook each and split the VC and TK models among ourselves" again. While this may seem like wishfulthinking I would say it makes sense from marketing purposes as well. Probably will work better than the BFSP-box since there are plenty of VC players out there and will be plenty of band-wagon TK players(onto of the current TK players) coming along for the ride = $$$ which in turn make GW happy.

...Ok it is wishfulthinking but then again, why not?

Please this, I may join you in your wishful thinking...that said most models I can "convert" to Undead. Thats what i did with Skull Pass, ah 60 zombies etc etc And a summer of death would be nice...anyone from GW listening? Please...anyone???

 

[Lord of Ravens]

I doubt they would put TK and VC in the starter box set. Both these armies have complicated special rules and rely heavily on magic. In the past, GW has steered away from difficult armies in the box set Ususally they will go for a simple army, such a the Empire.

 

[doombunny666]

Empire are in NO way simple I reject that veiw with the detachment rules and prayers and sacrificing matyrs and the Stank...

 

[markusmaximus]

This will not be the last army before version 8! version 7 was only released in 2006. it takes a full 5 year cycle to release a new rules version. there are other armies to be reviewed these are: Bretonia, wood elves, Dwarves and possibly Orcs and Goblins. version 8 will not be releaseed untill at least autumn 2011. Giving plenty of time for more releases, as is the G.W. buisness strategy.

 

[Master Vampire]

This will not be the last army before version 8! version 7 was only released in 2006. it takes a full 5 year cycle to release a new rules version. there are other armies to be reviewed these are: Bretonia, wood elves, Dwarves and possibly Orcs and Goblins. version 8 will not be releaseed untill at least autumn 2011. Giving plenty of time for more releases, as is the G.W. buisness strategy.

Interesting theory. I have to admit that it does sound a lot like GW. I've read that O&G might get a new wave of models next year, but a new book?

I also heard that Bretonnia and Wood Elves have to wait before the release. It seems that 8th edition is a rather small rules update. Something concerning about Cavalry and flank charges if I'm not mistaken.

Haven't heard about Dwarves. If you mean Chaos Dwarves, well yes, they're getting an army (book).

Tomb Kings... I don't know. They seem like a very static army, having only a couple of options. Also heard that they tend to lose a lot below 2k, so I guess they could use some tweaking

 

[Danceman]

Tomb Kings... I don't know. They seem like a very static army, having only a couple of options. Also heard that they tend to lose a lot below 2k, so I guess they could use some tweaking

The 'gunline' lists might be abit static but otherwise they play pretty aggressive with even their gunlines often having a counter-charge prepared. Though most TK lists are very much like a pack of wolves circling its prey before they attack.

.

As for special rules and so, VC and TK does also leave out some tricky rules. Such as psychology for example. TK vs VC would introduce the players to the basics of the movement phase, shooting(or having to cope with the lack of shooting), magic and combat. I was however as stated doing abit of wishful thinking here but on the other hand I dont think it is something out of the question either.

At the moment though, it seems to be common 'knowledge' that TK are up after BoC. I hope it's true but at the same time I dread what GW might do to them, like for example streamlining their magic phase and giving them march moves. The whole deal of being undead but different is what makes TK and VC so cool in my view and erasing the difference in their "undeath" would kill off alot of flavour for both armies.

 

[Master Vampire]

The 'gunline' lists might be abit static but otherwise they play pretty aggressive with even their gunlines often having a counter-charge prepared. Though most TK lists are very much like a pack of wolves circling its prey before they attack.

I didn't doubt the effectiveness of the army, but as a whole. There seems to be limited, or rather, restricted choice around army composition. After looking up their choices at the Games Workshop site, it actually looks quite fair. But I heard a lot complaints generally that some units are too expensive or ineffective. I think that they wanted to point out Ushabti, Bone Giant, Skeleton Archers and perhaps Carrion.

Though I believe that each unit can have a maximum effect in the hands of a good general, I think that some units are bound to be more effective than others (Tomb Scorpions for example).

Quite funny to read ''Tomb Kings'' and ''gunline'' in one sentence though. I mean, is their shooting that bad? o_o Screaming Catapult x2, Horse Archers, Archers on Chariots and Archers on foot? And probably heavy magic... But it seems that would be a substantial part of the army with shooting weapons. There are prolly better armies possible to create a gunline. Besides... in the end you do have to fight a combat or two. You don't have the luxury like the WE to pick the battles you want, or am I mistaken? (I know of their movement spell, but does that equal skirmishing units of doom?)

At the moment though, it seems to be common 'knowledge' that TK are up after BoC. I hope it's true but at the same time I dread what GW might do to them, like for example streamlining their magic phase and giving them march moves. The whole deal of being undead but different is what makes TK and VC so cool in my view and erasing the difference in their "undeath" would kill off alot of flavour for both armies.

Well, do you think GW has messed up with the latest new AB's ? *MV is not up to date with this*

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Dancey - why would you think the 8th would remove the Undead rule? It has been there....well since forever and is an intrinsic part of the army, I can't see they removing it.

 

[Danceman]

Dancey - why would you think the 8th would remove the Undead rule? It has been there....well since forever and is an intrinsic part of the army, I can't see they removing it.

I didnt mean remove it, I meant streamling it into being the same. I like the difference between the two undead rules(like for example, TK cant march, period). The rule I fear they might remove is the current magic system(incantations and hierarchy order and all that stuff).

MV; Depends on the list. Though as a general 'rule' if you cant controll a TK players magic phase you're going to face a deceptively fast army. As for the gunline, it can be pretty scary. 2 catapults firing several times and it gets worse if you're not ItP due to the panic-inducing nature of the ammo. Overall though, TK arent exactly what you'd call a top tier army but certainly not a lower tier army either.