night shroud and supporting attacks

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vampireplayer

Zombie
Sep 5, 2012
19
Zombies
46
so there was an interesting point asserted by my gaming group that things like the night shroud, the zombie dragon swarm of flies, and mark and daemon of nurgle abilities, where the effect is that things in base-to-base (B2B) suffer some sort of ill effect, such as -1 to hit, or in the night shroud's case, ASL and no strength bonus from weapons will only affect the front rank and that the second, and third ranks in a horde situation, will not be affected as as they are not technically in B2B.

The only thing i could find on the subject was on the first page of the close combat section where it says "only models in base to base can make attacks, the most common exception to this is when models make supporting attacks" (paraphrasing here) which sounds to me like models making supporting attacks are indeed not considered to be in B2B. i do not like this at all, if that is the case, i cannot see the point of taking the Night Shroud and the zombie dragon seems to be much less effective although daemon princes of nurgle would be less scary to hordes of great weapon infantry.

is my group correct? i hope not, but if not, can someone please help me with rules citations to make this not true lol?
 
Nightshroud is still awesome.you can punk out rank and file,and you should be in their flank/rear anyway with the ZD's mobility.
It's enemy heroes that you need to be concerned about,and they will be base to base ;).
 
I agree. It's still a great item. Considering the unit you are facing where the front rank might have more than 1 attack and you can negate the bonuses for those attacks and the support rank is only getting that 1 attack (unless MI) it can swing the difference. It's a key item for my lance bus formation.
 
You just need to look at the bases really don't you. Models in the second rank aren't in B2B with you, are they. It's clear as day.
 
Useless item against ASF foes. They will kill your squishy necro with free back rank attacks pretty easy. I have yet to find way to hide my necro from certain death in 8th so far. Other than leave him behind in small zombie unit......
 
Count Lasombra said:
I would never suggest anyone place the nightshroud on a necromancer.

Indeed. I can envision very few scenarios where a necro ends up in combat, and a nightshrous will somehow save it.

Wish my Ghoul King could take Nightshroud though. :(
 
I was trying to post this yesterday...

Suppose you have a character with the nightshroud in b2b with an enemy character. A challange is issued by that enemy character and you accept with the unit champ NOT in b2b with it. Is the enemy character still under the effects of the nightshroud?

In short: Does a challange make you exempt from nightshroud if you start off in b2b with it but the bearer isn't involved in the challange?
 
If the enemy character is still in b2b with your night shroud bearer then yes, the same works for tots and sword of anti-heroes. If he moved out of b2b to get to the champion then no, he wouldn't be influenced by the item anymore. (Except sword of anti-heroes would still bufff your character because the rule says unit in b2b...)
 
An additional thought: If he is in b2b with the nightshroud then he can't move as you can't move out of b2b while in combat. I will check the rulebook when I get home regarding challenges
 
BloodbathMcGrath said:
In the BRB it says you should move one of the characters to meet the other, or move both, or pretend they are in b2b if they do not fit where they need to be...

So... it doesn't help in the slightest.
 
So, keep your nightshroud character next to your champ. Then the opponent has to move into b2b in order to challenge.( We always play that the challenger has to move, not the recipient. After all, if he thinks he's hard enough, let him come to you.)
 
hairyjeff said:
So, keep your nightshroud character next to your champ. Then the opponent has to move into b2b in order to challenge.( We always play that the challenger has to move, not the recipient. After all, if he thinks he's hard enough, let him come to you.)

But, that's your house-rule, not an official one. There's no guarantee that his gaming group will agree to that.

Furthermore, it's quite possible for him to move into B2B, without being affected by the nighthroud:

XXXXXXXC
XXXVNXXX

C = Challenger
N = Nightshroud-wearing model
V = Vampire Champion
X = Rank & File

Ok, so, C challenges and V accepts. C moves into B2B with V, as per your rules:

XXCXXXXX
XXXVNXXX

C is now in base-contact with V (corner to corner), but not with the nightshroud.
 
I believe it is page 102 under Fighting a Challenge. First sentence says the one accepting moves. Second sentence says if they don't fit, pretend. So I think it comes down to knowing ahead of time which of theirs is challenging and arranging your models to force b2b. If you know you are challenging wouldn't having your champ in the far corner flanked by the nightshroud force him into b2b? If they challenge I think more forethought and luck is needed to force b2b.
 

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