Nightshroud and High Elves

[DrVampire]

I have been wondering, if i equip nightshroud onto a vampire lord and he is in combat with a spearmen block of HE, as the ones in base contact with him loose ASF when he directs attacks against the unit do they still class as having ASF? or do i have to allocate attacks to just the few models without ASF that he can hit?

Thanks

 

[Johnny-Crass]

You attack the ones without ASF as they are the ones you are in base to base with

 

[DrVampire]

So as there would normally be 3 models in front without ASF anything over 3 wounds would not be counted? or am i missing something.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

You are over thinking this. Say you are in base contact with one model in a 8 man unit but you do 8 wounds to the unit. You do not kill that one model 8 times you kill 8 models. They just step up

 

[eggsPR]

It's a shame nightshroud doesn't negate Mindrazor

Watch out for that!

 

[Raizi]

Basically the HE opponent gets his ASF as usual, he just loses as many attacks as are in base contact with the Nightshroud. After that your vampire gets to make his statement, and after that any rank and file from your part. (this is just the usual scenario, reader discretion is advised)

 

[DrVampire]

But does the vampire lord still get ASF rerolls? also are there any rules to back this up? one of the HE guys i play is stating that i loose rerolls as the unit still counts as having ASF, hes a stickler for rules and always wants page numbers for everything.

 

[GhoulKing505]

RAW you don't get re-rolls against an opponent with ASF even if they get ASL. The rules state that if you have ASF and are fighting someone with the same rule then no one gets re-rolls. Your opponent still has ASF even if he has ASL and so no re-rolls for you even though he strikes in initiative order and you ASF and have a hire initiative.

This is just one of those rules that is kinda dumb but most of the dumb rules are because of the way the authors write the rules. The wording is just confusing.

 

[Dklyn]

RAW you don't get re-rolls against an opponent with ASF even if they get ASL. The rules state that if you have ASF and are fighting someone with the same rule then no one gets re-rolls. Your opponent still has ASF even if he has ASL and so no re-rolls for you even though he strikes in initiative order and you ASF and have a hire initiative.

This is just one of those rules that is kinda dumb but most of the dumb rules are because of the way the authors write the rules. The wording is just confusing.

I don't think this is right. ASF says that if you fight an opponenet with ASF, "the Attacks (not sure why capitalized but ok) are made simultaneously and neither model benefits from the rerolls normally granted by this rule". ASL rules says that if a model has both ASF and ASL, they strike at init order and neither rule applies.
If someone were to say "look it says if we both have ASF we have to follow that rule and neither get re-rolls" they would also have to say "then obviously we have to strike at the same time since that is part of the same rule". ASL clearly says this is not the case so it seems fairly obvious to me at least that you do not follow the rules for ASF.
Following your interpretation would also mean that if a model had ASF and ASL (like elves with bat swarms) would still get to rerolls against lower init foes which is also clearly wrong imo.

If ASF doesn't apply (as described in ASL rules) then neither of the paragraphs under ASF applies. The rule just doesn't apply right? It seems silly to sat "well you don't go first as the rules for ASF specifies, but you do get the rerolls..."

 

[GhoulKing505]

I think you just swung me back to my original position on the subject. I said what I did because someone made a very compelling argument for it and I couldn't argue against it.

Reading it again makes it more clear. Thank you for bringing me back to the fold of sane and educated Warhammer players.

 

[Da Once Future Git]

I agree with all the people who say you still get re-rolls, in the combat section it says you can only attack those in B-B (with exceptions of course!) & those models lose ASF from Nightshroud. therefore you get to strike first (simultanious with the other ranks) & gain re-rolls.

allrighty, here's my question with ASF & Nightshroud...
what about if you have 2 characters (both with quickblood) next to eachother & one has nightshroud. would the other get re-rolls (2 out of 3 models in B-B don't have ASF, but the last does).

Hope this makes sense & is not off topic...

 

[Demian]

I agree with all the people who say you still get re-rolls, in the combat section it says you can only attack those in B-B (with exceptions of course!) & those models lose ASF from Nightshroud. therefore you get to strike first (simultanious with the other ranks) & gain re-rolls.

allrighty, here's my question with ASF & Nightshroud...
what about if you have 2 characters (both with quickblood) next to eachother & one has nightshroud. would the other get re-rolls (2 out of 3 models in B-B don't have ASF, but the last does).

Hope this makes sense & is not off topic...

I believe so.

Like the previous posts said, you kill 1 model and the next one steps up. Just like targeting a specific model (usually a Character or a Champion) inside a Unit in Close Combat, you need only to declare you are attacking either Elf in BtB affected by the Nightshroud, thus you would be attacking a model with their ASF canceled out, and would get re-rolls (ASF and ASL cancel each other out and neither applies in such case)

=D