No hold bars fighting

[Minigiant]

Im new to Vampire counts so pardon my ignorance

A lot of these other fantasy races have big powerful builds and i know vampire counts dont have one.

However i can not seem to find any super competitive lists to draw inspiration from

So what does a typical RAW VC army look like?

 

[The Sun King]

Hey Minigiant. Well VC has SEVERAL power builds actually: The Black Knight Bus List, Dual Engine Crypt Horrors and Scream Cheese. Look around the forum to get an idea of what those builds is all about.

 

[Minigiant]

Can any of those effectively be combined like a Crypt horror and scream cheese + Blacknight bus for example?

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Yeah, Sunnny got it! I'll explain the big three in a bit of detail.

1. Black Knight Bus - 15 or so black knights with a level 4 blender lord, and usually 2 other characters. This is the main power of your army, meaning that if it dies, you pretty much lose the game. I've seen this list ran with great success and it's my least favorite of the 3 to play.

2. CH's and ME's - Crypt Horrors are the hidden gem in our army book. These guys are potentially one of the best anvils in the game. They can take a beating without falling apart. The Mortis Engines then sit behind the army confering regen saves everywhere, making your entire army about attrition. Plan on this play style ending without a total masacre type game. You'll kill some stuff, your enemy will kill some stuff, but neither side should get tabled on a regular basis. (FYI this is my favorite play style)

3. Screamo lists - This list will look like a pretty normal VC list, skellies, zombies, maybe ghouls, spirit hosts, vargs, HW's. The big thing about this list though is that you will have 2 Terrorgheists and anywhere between like 2 and 7 banshees (Not rare choice banshees, they're terrible). The whole point of this style of list is that armor saves mean nothing, and you can reduce the numbers in enemy units before having to try to do combat with them. This list is great against anything that uses monsters, or bretonnians, or Warriors of Chaos.

Hope this leads you in the right direction! Like sunny said, there are examples of different builds all over this place!


Edit: Woops, looks like I took a bit to long to come back with this response lol. You can usually combine 2 out of three of them. The crypt horror list is tough to combine with any as you're using Special choice points for both Crypt Horrors and Black Knights. But Black Knight busses work very well when you have 2 terrorgheists so you can splash the Scream cheese into a BK bus list.

 

[Minigiant]

Edit: Woops, looks like I took a bit to long to come back with this response lol. You can usually combine 2 out of three of them. The crypt horror list is tough to combine with any as you're using Special choice points for both Crypt Horrors and Black Knights. But Black Knight busses work very well when you have 2 terrorgheists so you can splash the Scream cheese into a BK bus list.

Thank you for fleshing that all out

I think i want to run the crypt horror+mortis engine list (beautiful model) combined with the screamo list. Ghoul king on Terrorghiest sounds tasty

 

[Corien Sumatris]

An SGK can be awesome, but him on a TG is a huge cannon ball magnet. You let that guy die and your entire army crumbles, plus he is stupid expensive. Also, avoid the sreaming sword, it looks awesome, except that it gives you frenzy. This means that you may be forced to charge and you have a chance of charging something that you know you'll lose too.

I love the Crypt Horrors and ME's, if you want a bunch of screaming then don't be afraid to take a Master Necromancer on Lore of Death and the Cursed Book. Doom and Darkness can make your banshees unstopable! So don't be afraid to add banshees for hero choices, but I would avoid TG's in this style of list.

 

[RarerMonsters]

You know, you can build any net list you want, and it might get you through an ETC event but it'll never make you good with the army.

VC isn't about net lists, it's about learning and adapting the army's nuances: March bubbles, crumbling, Invocation of Nehek, and Vanhel's make the army dependent on maneuvering as grouped units. Also, our low-hitting-power core makes you reliant on a few powerful, but vulnerable, units (and your powerful combat lord) to deal damage. No shooting makes us vulnerable to redirectors and force you to find alternatives, and ethereal can either block powerful units or give free victory points depending on how you use them.

I recommend running a lot of varied, take on all comers lists until you start to get the hang of how all the moving pieces of the army works. Then, it'll start to seem a lot more sensible what's really powerful and worth focusing on.

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Well said! Learning how the army actually works together is huge! But I think it's important to know that with any army, you can't expect to pick up the net list and win. 8th Ed is all about chaff/redirectors, Large units, and not getting out-maeuvered.

 

[Minigiant]

You know, you can build any net list you want, and it might get you through an ETC event but it'll never make you good with the army.

VC isn't about net lists, it's about learning and adapting the army's nuances: March bubbles, crumbling, Invocation of Nehek, and Vanhel's make the army dependent on maneuvering as grouped units. Also, our low-hitting-power core makes you reliant on a few powerful, but vulnerable, units (and your powerful combat lord) to deal damage. No shooting makes us vulnerable to redirectors and force you to find alternatives, and ethereal can either block powerful units or give free victory points depending on how you use them.

I recommend running a lot of varied, take on all comers lists until you start to get the hang of how all the moving pieces of the army works. Then, it'll start to seem a lot more sensible what's really powerful and worth focusing on.

You are correct, im new to fantasy but have been a long time wargaming player; 40k, blood bowl, flames of war etc.

The reason why i look at these 'net lists' & tournament lists is that it helps me learn how to deal with the current eta and how in fact these lists help shape that meta. I want to do that so i spend the least amount of money on my army because the last thing i want to do is build a wide varied list and then not use half of it

Well said! Learning how the army actually works together is huge! But I think it's important to know that with any army, you can't expect to pick up the net list and win. 8th Ed is all about chaff/redirectors, Large units, and not getting out-maeuvered.

You can not pick up a net list and just win i agree with that, but you cant pick up a terrible list and win either. A good list helps you learn. Thats my opinion on it

Edit: How many mortis engines would you run in net list #2

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Oh yeah! You need to know the army but what net lists will do it help you find the good units and good combos. For instance, you will not want to buy an abyssal terror, a few corpse carts, and a bunch of bat swarms. Net lists are great for learning, becuase people have already done the whole trial and error thing with every unit. It saves time and money!

As far as ME's, they work a lot better in pairs. Same goes with Terrorgheists.

 

[Minigiant]

Yeah you said it better than i did

I have not got the book to hand but i thought of something (I know, a dangerous thing). If i remember correctly a Master necromancer has the same leadership as a Ghoul king so couldnt i run a GK on Terrorgheist and a Master Necomancer (G) so the cannonball target doesnt crumble my army?

Also unsure on points but an idea never hurt anyone

 

[RarerMonsters]

I doubt it, GK on Terrorgheist will be too expensive to also fit a Master Necromancer. Also, if you take a Vampire you want to invest into some powers to make it worthwhile, and if you go with a Master Necro then you want to give him at least a 4+ ward and probably an arcane item.

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Yeah, Also, MN's are LD8 and SGK's are LD10

 

[Minigiant]

^Shame, it was just an idea anyway

Is it normal to get frustrated with writing lists because i just cant seem to write a list that i am happy with?
I just dont seem to be progressing with it

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

Yeah, Also, MN's are LD8 and SGK's are LD10

Actually sgk are Ld9

 

[Adam_Barrow]

you will not want to buy an abyssal terror

Speak for yourself.

@minigiant Are you using pen and paper or a list building app? When I downloaded battlescribe it made list writing more fun.

 

[Minigiant]

@minigiant Are you using pen and paper or a list building app? When I downloaded battlescribe it made list writing more fun.

Microsoft word

 

[Corien Sumatris]

@Geordie: Really? I could have sworn they were 10! oh well, same outcome. However, does that mean that you can take Kemmler as your general and a SGK as a lord?

@Adam: What do you like about the Abysal Terror? If I wanted to fly I would take a Hell Steed, and if I wanted a monster I would take a Zombie Dragon. I just don't see the point of the little middle guy.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

@corien Just the fluff reasons. I go necrarch themed, and a stitched together monster is ultra necrarch sounding. He's cannon bait most definitely, though, but I run a heavy Flying formation (x2 tbats, x3 vargs, 2x2 fell bats), so he stays out of LOS pretty well with the whale-sized tbat bases and MI vargs. Only lost him once to artillery, though I have to be very careful with positioning.

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Ohhh okay, that's fair then!! Fluff reasons are alway reason enough to play any model in the book for me!

 

[The Sun King]

All around good advice in this thread. Good work guys.

minigiant if you want to get inspiration for dual engine lists take a look at Sunny's challenge. I make a lot of those lists and have some 'articles' on how to use them