Official ruling on successfully cast and lore attribute

[jediguru]

So my question is: Was there ever an official ruling on "successfully cast" pertaining to our lore attribute triggering? Is it simply if the casting value is achieved or if the casting value is achieved AND it is not dispelled? The rulebook seems to contradict itself in this regard.

I searched around this forum and others to try and find an official ruling on this but all I could find was discussion around the matter and differing opinions on how it should be ruled.

 

[Mad 'At]

Well, the BRB states the following on page 36:

If the enemy has failed his dispel attempt (or not even attempted one!), the spell is successfully cast...

So the spell has to go through the dispel "phase" without being dispelled for the attribute to be activated.

Though this is f***ed up by for example our own Dark Acolyte power, which dose nothing if we read the rules that way...

 

[jediguru]

exactly, which implies that the DA power is meant to be ruled as
meeting the casting requirement=successfully cast.

 

[Strahd]

There are several places in the BRB that state the spell is successfully cast once casting value is met as well and in certain spell discriptions. Its funny that you brought that up as im heading to a tournement this weekend where they are ruling a spell is successfully cast once the spell value is met regardless if its dispeled or not. Im at work right now or I would find exact passages of the rulebook to quote.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

If a spell is dispelled it is not successful. There is no other way to read this.

The way the above poster plays it would make fire the most broken lore in the game.

 

[Mad 'At]

So then it is settled, DA dose nothing

 

[jediguru]

Please clarify and explain Johnny. If that were the way it is always ruled then yes DA would in fact be useless.

 

[Strahd]

Like I said, if you follow rules as written, there are numerous mentions in the BRB about a spell being cast successfuly as soon as the casting value is met. I didnt say that that is the way I play, im just saying what the book says and how the tournament is playing it. It would make Blue Scribes completely broken as well.

 

[Mad 'At]

Could you give page reference to at least one Strahd? I can't find any but don't really know where to look. Didn't find anything under Casting Value on page 32, there the term "the spell is cast" was used, so no problem there.

 

[Strahd]

I will when I get home im still at work. Got another few hrs to go!!!

 

[Mad 'At]

Alrighty

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Page 36 Paragraph 1 First Row
"If the enemy has failed his dispel attempt or not even attempted one, the spell is cast successfully"

Clear as day

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Johnny is right.
If it is dispelled it is not successful.... Think of it like a cock block.
So close yet so far. :frown:


Anyway in regards to DA, it does not activate unless the spell has been cast, once you have got it above the required casting value before dispel attempts you may add its bonus D3, before dispel attempts.
If you roll under the casting value and fail to cast you do not add D3.
Now I am aware that successful means to be after dispel but this is a book error as that trait is demonstrated poorly, wish they just allowed it to be used on all invocation castings.

 

[Ben E. Violent]

I think they intended to have it work the way it is supposed to. As in: roll casting dice, beat the casting value, add D3 then, opponent gets a dispel attempt at this new value.

Why wouldn't anyone in their right mind not allow it this way?

It could not be: roll dice, beat casting value, opponent gets dispel attempt, THEN roll the D3. Anyone ruling it this way clearly doesn't want to follow it's intent. It does nothing! The spell has been cast! So, why even add it to the book if it works that way? It's our newest book! They are adding things that do nothing? Surely!

If they would just tighten up their wording, like people have been asking for ages, then we wouldn't have questions like that that defy basic reason.

 

[Strahd]

Well after going home last night and diving into the BRB I owe you all an apology. The book does indeed just say the spell is cast it does not say the spell is cast "successfully" after it meets the casting value. I was 99.99% positive it did because this was a HUGE debate at my local game store when my friend used this argument to get extra dice for Blue Scribes. He even brought up several sections in the book where it said a spell was cast once casting value was met but I can only find the one instance. Again my apologies

 

[TobiasRathein]

I think they intended to have it work the way it is supposed to. As in: roll casting dice, beat the casting value, add D3 then, opponent gets a dispel attempt at this new value.

Why wouldn't anyone in their right mind not allow it this way?

It could not be: roll dice, beat casting value, opponent gets dispel attempt, THEN roll the D3. Anyone ruling it this way clearly doesn't want to follow it's intent. It does nothing! The spell has been cast! So, why even add it to the book if it works that way? It's our newest book! They are adding things that do nothing? Surely!

If they would just tighten up their wording, like people have been asking for ages, then we wouldn't have questions like that that defy basic reason.

This.

I have often found, however, that people will often not use any semblance of reading comprehension and do what is sensible. Unfortunately, too many people are overly concerned with winning and will do everything they can to "bend" the rules and claim the literal wording, when the intent is obvious as is the case with Dark Acolyte.

 

[Chaos_Born]

Yeah, too often you'll find that a person's opinion on a particular rules can change based on what favours them most

 

[Ben E. Violent]

Its not the readers fault. For whatever reasoning GW has, we have to interpret them as best we can.

Most of the time we use "RAW" and that's a good way to go usually. This is one case where if you say it doesn't work as RAW, then it breaks other things that are working as RAW. It is expecting much from the competitive minded player.

So, they need to FAQ it.