plague of dwarfs and how to fix it

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Gladius Rex said:
also, if a warmachine like those organ guns wishes to fire at a single Vamp thrall, instead of at my large blocks of advancing ghouls and grave gaurd... more power to em I say.

They could more easily take out 4-5 ghouls (roughly 40 points), or risk having no damage due to that nifty 3+ ward save from the bracers. Regardless, the point is to cause the Dwarf player some chaos and panic and make him make decisions he doesnt want to really make. You get a player worried about what those scouts might do (even if nothing at all) and you are one step ahead of him.
This would be true except for a couple of things: for the most part, when I play against my dwarf friend, the organ gun doesn't usually have anything in range for the first round (especially if he goes first), so the thrall isn't distracting from anything else.
The other big point is something you almost touched on. He can target say ghouls and kill at most 80 points (more likely to be 40-50) or target your thrall which is worth ~200 points and protects his back line. Because the guns fire off so many shots, it's likely for your thrall to take wounds even with the 3+ ward save. And since scouts cannot charge on the first turn, if the dwarfs go first your thrall is likely to die before doing anything.
There's more problems with it I feel, but these are the biggest ones.
 
I only tried it once and it worked pretty well. Like I said, it was also 7th ed at the time. Given the noted changes, if I were going to try it now, id probably place terrain in my opponents deployment zone during the terrain setup phase with the intent on hiding behind it or in it (forest) for added cover, knowing well that i can cause him that initial panic.

I also find that ghoulkin movement + a good Vanhels to move those ghouls along really get em within range. If the Dwarf goes first (not typical in my experience as i typically run out of units before anyone but Demon armies) i tend to have that +1.

There are other ways to mess with Dwarves as well, but doing a little something unexpected (which scouts for VCs is a pretty unexpected deployment) can really throw an opponent out of his gameplan.
 
Believe me, I'd love for the scout thrall to work well against my dwarf buddy, but I've gone through the scenarios in my head and every time the odds point to death due to organ non-failure (haha get it?). If it can work for you, by all means go for it. I'm just saying I can't figure out how he's staying alive and want to know what I'm missing.
Using terrain may be beneficial, though be careful as there are some nasty terrains out there (and if you roll dangerous terrain for him, you KNOW it's going to come up as 1) :). I'd pry recommend keeping him out of LoS for the first turn if possible since you can't charge the first turn anyways and if he goes first, then it won't be able to open fire.

Ghoulkin power would be great for those who use ghouls, and a well used VDM can get those stunties shakin in their boots.
Against dwarfs, he should be finished deploying first. One thing you may have overlooked (as we did for several games) is that the new deployment rules say that warmachines are all deployed at once, taking up only one turn.
 
We always deployed our Warmachines at the same time. I didnt think there was a rule change on that. Maybe we were just doing it wrong in 7th ed lol.

The Dwarf I play ran 2 units of Thunderers, 1 unit of Longbeards, 2 units of warriors, an alter or anvil or something of the sort, and then some artillery organ guns, and some nasty flamming cannon. so by my count, he had 7 deploys, then characters.

I run 1 pack of ghouls, 1 pack of skellies, 1 pack Grave guard (sometimes), Black Coach. Then its all characters.

If I squeeze in even another unit like a Corpse cart or some Cairn Wraiths (point totals depending) I still tend to run out of units first.
 
Wow, he runs a lot more infantry than my dwarf friend and you run a lot fewer units that I do :). One thing that may help is to point out the anvil of doom (hate that thing!) is a warmachine and so I believe it should be placed with all other warmachines (dwarf FAQ classifies it as a warmachine).
Maybe deploying all warmachines was in 7th and we missed it the whole time we were playing then...
 
I've played dwarf gunlines a couple of times and found that you either win spectacularly or lose disastrously, there doesn't seem to be much middle ground. It all depends on just how well his 1-2 rounds of shooting go, making dwarf gunlines one of the dullest enemies to face IMO.

I would say that a solid core of ghouls with ghoulkin is a must. The extra move can get you in combat a turn earlier which can massively improve your chances. Ethereal units are good too, generally he will have to fire at them with his warmachines in order to weaken them enough to finish them off in combat, this takes some of the heat off your other units. it is also likely he will have only one or two combat blocks, so the etheral units can quite happily go after warmachines or missile troops safe in the knowledge there aren't likely to be any magical attacks back on them. Bats and wolves are also a good choice as these are threats he must deal with before turning his attention to your main army.
Having good raising ability is a must, you need to keep your block infantry healthy if you are going to beat the dwarves at close quarters. Remember that even a basic warrior unit is a tough nut to crack. Spells like pit of shades or purple sun are a massive help here if you want to go with the cheesy sacrificial vampire route (hey, you're playing a dwarf gunline, throw stilton at him as much as you want). Consider items like the ironcurse pendant as even a 6 up save against his warmachines can be incredibly useful.
One thing I haven't worked out how to deal with is the Anvil of Doom. I've only managed to assassinate it once and that was with wood elves back in 7th ed with the help of some careless positioning on my opponent's behalf. IMO an assassination attempt by vampires is pretty futile, a hero level vampire is unlikely to succeed in killing it (think 1+ re-rollable armour save and immune to KB and poison as standard) and a lord is too valuable to risk. Some spells could work, but most of the spells that could take the anvil out either recquire close proximity and will certainly be dispelled or a suicide vamp who is better off firing purple sun at infantry blocks anyway. It's unlikely to be worth spending so many dice trying to kill the anvil each turn instead of raising/vanhels anyway. My advice is to weather it as best you can until you can tie it up with infantry.
Normally I'm a big advocate of corpse carts, but in this case I don't think they're worthwhile. A Varghulf will certainly attract warmachine fire and may buy you some time, but is probably too expensive for this role. Bats and wolves are a better choice. Zombies can actually be worthwhile here as they are generally considered a waste of shots, but can be raised easily enough to tie up some of his troops. better yet if he drags his anchor (usually a big block of ironbreakers or hammerers) out of position to flank them.

Having said all this, a gunline is still often a game of luck. There's not a lot you can do when your opponent's organ gun rolls a 10 three times in a row :swear:
 

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