Hi all! I am playing the Brettonians soon. I know NOTHING about them!! Which would be better, a Terrorgeist or Blood Knights? It's a 2500 point game any suggestions of what I should run in general? Thanks for any help!!
Playing Bret's... Blood knights or Terrorgeist.... Also any other suggestions!
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Tbats. Our bret player stopped bringing his army after she screamed a unit of Grails off the table in one turn.
Terrorghiest destroy them outright, banshees are pretty potent as well.
Down side is he may hate you after.
Blood Knights are more fluffy for fighting brets than anything else.
Down side is he may hate you after.
Blood Knights are more fluffy for fighting brets than anything else.
Tbats are great on turn 1. Every bret player that knows how to play his army, and how important shooting is nowadays will bring 2 trebushes, and u can kiss ur Tbat goodnight. It wouldnt make a bret player happier for u to bring even 2 Tbats.
If you roll the #6 spell for Vampire Lore, KEEP IT!!
It's soooo money against Brets.
Mounted charcter busses that are 6 deep (16-18 models 3 wide is not unusualy) would get hit by 6D6 S3 hits with no armor save.
That's averaging 21 hits, wounding on 4s, that's 10-11 wounds, and he gets only a 6+ blessing save bc of low Strength, so he saves 2...
8-9 dead Brets one spell, which could be the entire unit barr the command group... angle it correctly and you could clip multiple units... tasty
"But I was told Wind of Death sucked"
Well guess what... eggie is telling you otherwise vs Brets!!
It's soooo money against Brets.
Mounted charcter busses that are 6 deep (16-18 models 3 wide is not unusualy) would get hit by 6D6 S3 hits with no armor save.
That's averaging 21 hits, wounding on 4s, that's 10-11 wounds, and he gets only a 6+ blessing save bc of low Strength, so he saves 2...
8-9 dead Brets one spell, which could be the entire unit barr the command group... angle it correctly and you could clip multiple units... tasty
"But I was told Wind of Death sucked"
Well guess what... eggie is telling you otherwise vs Brets!!
Oppenheimer
Varghulf
Ethereal works well against them. Their characters and the grail knights are the only ones with magical attacks.
Brets also have access to cheap en masse flaming shooting with their archers. Be mindful of your Regen units if he takes them.
I know that a lot of people seem to dislike hexwraiths but to run through a nice unit of knights with no armor saves and not be tied in combat with them is what almost won me a game against them the other day. But thats off topic. I would have to agree that the TG is the way to go, 4 naked blood nights cost a very little less than a TG and don't have the speed and the scream, nor do they get thunderstomps (Should things go poorly and it gets charged).
Terrorgheists are dynamite against Bretonnians. If you take two, you'll win the game but you won't win any friends, so keep that in mind.
Oppenheimer
Varghulf
I find that TG gets targeted so heavily for me that I never get more than a scream or two off before it's killed no matter how I try to hide it.
StavrosVonStrongheim
Zombie
I have never played Brets Vs VC as a Bret player (as I am the only person with a VC army in my area, yes pathetic I know lol). I am really new on the whole VC army thingie, so I can't offer my advice on what to field nor how to play your army. I can tell you what to avoid though 
1. Lords/ heroes: be EXTRA careful of the Bret characters. Even in a 1500 match, you can fight against 4 characters: 1 HKB, 1 Killer and a very very tough 1+ reroll bsb (and a small lvl2, but the damsels don't matter). Brets who know how to play usually create the so-called HeroWall, which is, three 1+armor characters in front. The HeroWall uses some bretonnian rules:
a)Lance formation: 3 knights count as a rank, and every character on the side of any rank can hit his full attacks (his mount also) on the charge. This means, that with 12 knights, brets have 4 ranks and 11 attacks (champion 2, 9 more from the unit) from the knights and 9 from the horses.
b) Lance formation and characters: Bretonnia ruling states that if a Character is in a unit, he is always at the front, which means that you will have to kill at least 1 character before you get to hit the unit...Also, damsels are always protected in the 2nd rank of a lance formation, and they can cast spells which need line of site as if they were in the front row.
If the bret general respects himself, he will have 1+ armor rerollable on his bsb (Enchanted shield+ Dawnstone) and general (Gromrill great Helm), and 1+ with only one reroll (Luckstone) on his killer paladin. And I say killer, because on matches of 2000+, this paladin is usually equipped with the Sword of Antiheroes and thrown onto character bunkers... Combine that with a 5+ ward save against anything above str5 (+6 for lower strength) and it's very difficult to be dealt dmg....If you see a character on a pegasus, target him with all you have cause that one will be out for blood. Generally, the bret character statline is good. Of course it's inferior to the our VC one, but combine a descent str5+ attack, with a 1+ rerollable armor save, and you get a fighty brick on a horse....So yeah, be extra careful of the characters.
In the vast majority of my games, even if I'm close to defeat (I don't want to brag, but it doesn't happen often XD), the HeroWall pain train is the unit that prevails.
2. Magic. Brets can only choose among Beast, Life, and Heaven. In lower games (1500), Beasts is the Lore to go for, as you get Wissans (+1 STR +1 T) which makes even the lowest peasant a killing machine. On 1500 matches, u will usually encounter one or two lvl2 beasts. In bigger matches, usual combo is lvl4 Life/ lvl2 Life, or Lvl4 Heaven/ Lvl2 Beasts. Beasts: u know your opponent will buff and buff and buff. Life: prepare yourself for a world of regrowths... Heavens: experienced players, he'll try to lower your -already low- leadership, and go for the cheap spells that make you reroll all 6s and him all 1s.
Now, in bigger games, Brets is one of those armies with 2 dispel scrolls: usually a regular one and the Silver Mirror, which dispels your spell and deals dmg to your caster at the same time....
Otherwise, I don't think that you won't be able to dominate the Magic Phase...
3. Shooting: take down the Trebs. If you don't take them down fast enough, you will regret it. Countless matches, my trusty trebs have destroyed characters, units, and other warmachines. So, take your cowboys and charge on the trebs.
Also, be careful of the Flaming Archers. 65 points for a group of 10, with FLAMING attacks AND a deployable fence in front of them. Usually 6.5" in front of the trebs
4. Combat: Try to tarpit the main bretonnian death star with a huge chunk of undead. Focus on one character (in a HeroWall) or on the unit (in any other situation). If you see grail knights, try to eliminate as many as you can, because that's the Bret's ultra hammer right there. There are not a lot of things that can stay and fight when 6+ grails get on your flank...They have low T though, so go for it with str4+ units. Problem? They will hit first and boy oh boy they hit hard. Try to prevent the "Reroll all 1s" spell of Heaven's for that reason.
5. If you see a unit of men-at-arms with a wizard inside, AVOID IT. I'm not joking, that's one of the toughest anvils in the history of anvils. The wizard will 100% have the "Prayer Icon of Quenelles" which is a cheesy item that all brets love, including myself: it gives the 6++ ward (5++ if hit by str5 or more) to ANY unit, even lowly filthy peasants. Imagine a unit of str4 peasants (halberds), grinding through your blood knights, with a nice 1/3 chances of you NOT KILLING THEM. Give them wissans (of the beast lore) and they become an anvil with killing potential enough to hold (and eventually wipe out) a lot of hard things...I have won 2 (!) WATCHTOWER scenarios (yes, you read that right. Brets winning WATCHTOWER) with 30 men-at-arms and a lvl2 beasts damsel....
6. Peg knights are just annoying. Really really annoying...Versatile, good for hunting and flanking. VC don't have warmachines, so they will either hunt mortis engines and chariots, or flank charge anything that needs flank charging. Descent statline (one of the few humans with that) with T4 and 2 wounds each, pegasi pack a nice Stomp at str4. The best thing would be to take 'em out with YOUR hunters, but you should destroy those pesky trebuchets first...So, it's your decision on what to kill first.
7. If he fields questing knights, laugh at him. They have Great Weapons, which is pretty good, IF they did not only have a 3+ armor (despite the rest of the 2+ knights) AND they strike last. Which mean, that he will either a) cry a little as even 20 zombies might kill all of them before he even lands a hit XD or b) field them in a team of 5 to warmachine hunt (which I doubt). Also, Knights of the realm (The core knights) are 4 points less, with 2+ armor, and they are already +2 str on the charge, so not many ppl choose the slow questing knights...
8. If you see a grail relique, be puzzled, as the only good thing that it has is a 5+armor/5++ ward and stubborn. It is a small (but easy to overcome) tarpit. I'm pretty sure that your opponent will use men-at-arms though.
9. Or he might not field men-at-arms, which leads to a full mounted army, which means that Dance Macabre will be crucial to cut away his movement. Stop those combined charges and u will emerge victorious.
10. All knights have 2+ armor and 8" movement...Not to mention the 6+ (5+ if str5+) ward save.Keep that in mind if u are trying to hit with anything str4 or below, as the mortality rate of the knight unit will be close to 0 (if not 0).
11. If u see a train of 12 errant knights, with or without a paladin, try to avoid it. They might have the Errantry banner which confers a +1 str on charge for the knight errants only, which means that they will hit with at least 10, str 6 attacks, able to wipe out a lot of things.
12. You will ALWAYS play first. Bretonnians have to pray so they forfeit playing first, so they can get the army-wide (knight units) 6++/5++ ward save. They lose the ward save if they flee for any reason, so use that information to your advantage.
All in all, if u a) tarpit his main pain train, b) dominate Magic, control his phase, and c) kill of trebs fast enough, the game will be yours.
This my insight on a regular, non cheesy bret army.
I have not played (nor will I ever do) with a RAF bret army (Royal Army Force), with pegasus knights and characters on pegs, so I can't give any advice on that, other that it's super fast but not as hard hitting.
Hope I helped all of the VC players, even if it means betraying my Bret friends. I'm from Mousillion anyway
1. Lords/ heroes: be EXTRA careful of the Bret characters. Even in a 1500 match, you can fight against 4 characters: 1 HKB, 1 Killer and a very very tough 1+ reroll bsb (and a small lvl2, but the damsels don't matter). Brets who know how to play usually create the so-called HeroWall, which is, three 1+armor characters in front. The HeroWall uses some bretonnian rules:
a)Lance formation: 3 knights count as a rank, and every character on the side of any rank can hit his full attacks (his mount also) on the charge. This means, that with 12 knights, brets have 4 ranks and 11 attacks (champion 2, 9 more from the unit) from the knights and 9 from the horses.
b) Lance formation and characters: Bretonnia ruling states that if a Character is in a unit, he is always at the front, which means that you will have to kill at least 1 character before you get to hit the unit...Also, damsels are always protected in the 2nd rank of a lance formation, and they can cast spells which need line of site as if they were in the front row.
If the bret general respects himself, he will have 1+ armor rerollable on his bsb (Enchanted shield+ Dawnstone) and general (Gromrill great Helm), and 1+ with only one reroll (Luckstone) on his killer paladin. And I say killer, because on matches of 2000+, this paladin is usually equipped with the Sword of Antiheroes and thrown onto character bunkers... Combine that with a 5+ ward save against anything above str5 (+6 for lower strength) and it's very difficult to be dealt dmg....If you see a character on a pegasus, target him with all you have cause that one will be out for blood. Generally, the bret character statline is good. Of course it's inferior to the our VC one, but combine a descent str5+ attack, with a 1+ rerollable armor save, and you get a fighty brick on a horse....So yeah, be extra careful of the characters.
In the vast majority of my games, even if I'm close to defeat (I don't want to brag, but it doesn't happen often XD), the HeroWall pain train is the unit that prevails.
2. Magic. Brets can only choose among Beast, Life, and Heaven. In lower games (1500), Beasts is the Lore to go for, as you get Wissans (+1 STR +1 T) which makes even the lowest peasant a killing machine. On 1500 matches, u will usually encounter one or two lvl2 beasts. In bigger matches, usual combo is lvl4 Life/ lvl2 Life, or Lvl4 Heaven/ Lvl2 Beasts. Beasts: u know your opponent will buff and buff and buff. Life: prepare yourself for a world of regrowths... Heavens: experienced players, he'll try to lower your -already low- leadership, and go for the cheap spells that make you reroll all 6s and him all 1s.
Now, in bigger games, Brets is one of those armies with 2 dispel scrolls: usually a regular one and the Silver Mirror, which dispels your spell and deals dmg to your caster at the same time....
Otherwise, I don't think that you won't be able to dominate the Magic Phase...
3. Shooting: take down the Trebs. If you don't take them down fast enough, you will regret it. Countless matches, my trusty trebs have destroyed characters, units, and other warmachines. So, take your cowboys and charge on the trebs.
Also, be careful of the Flaming Archers. 65 points for a group of 10, with FLAMING attacks AND a deployable fence in front of them. Usually 6.5" in front of the trebs
4. Combat: Try to tarpit the main bretonnian death star with a huge chunk of undead. Focus on one character (in a HeroWall) or on the unit (in any other situation). If you see grail knights, try to eliminate as many as you can, because that's the Bret's ultra hammer right there. There are not a lot of things that can stay and fight when 6+ grails get on your flank...They have low T though, so go for it with str4+ units. Problem? They will hit first and boy oh boy they hit hard. Try to prevent the "Reroll all 1s" spell of Heaven's for that reason.
5. If you see a unit of men-at-arms with a wizard inside, AVOID IT. I'm not joking, that's one of the toughest anvils in the history of anvils. The wizard will 100% have the "Prayer Icon of Quenelles" which is a cheesy item that all brets love, including myself: it gives the 6++ ward (5++ if hit by str5 or more) to ANY unit, even lowly filthy peasants. Imagine a unit of str4 peasants (halberds), grinding through your blood knights, with a nice 1/3 chances of you NOT KILLING THEM. Give them wissans (of the beast lore) and they become an anvil with killing potential enough to hold (and eventually wipe out) a lot of hard things...I have won 2 (!) WATCHTOWER scenarios (yes, you read that right. Brets winning WATCHTOWER) with 30 men-at-arms and a lvl2 beasts damsel....
6. Peg knights are just annoying. Really really annoying...Versatile, good for hunting and flanking. VC don't have warmachines, so they will either hunt mortis engines and chariots, or flank charge anything that needs flank charging. Descent statline (one of the few humans with that) with T4 and 2 wounds each, pegasi pack a nice Stomp at str4. The best thing would be to take 'em out with YOUR hunters, but you should destroy those pesky trebuchets first...So, it's your decision on what to kill first.
7. If he fields questing knights, laugh at him. They have Great Weapons, which is pretty good, IF they did not only have a 3+ armor (despite the rest of the 2+ knights) AND they strike last. Which mean, that he will either a) cry a little as even 20 zombies might kill all of them before he even lands a hit XD or b) field them in a team of 5 to warmachine hunt (which I doubt). Also, Knights of the realm (The core knights) are 4 points less, with 2+ armor, and they are already +2 str on the charge, so not many ppl choose the slow questing knights...
8. If you see a grail relique, be puzzled, as the only good thing that it has is a 5+armor/5++ ward and stubborn. It is a small (but easy to overcome) tarpit. I'm pretty sure that your opponent will use men-at-arms though.
9. Or he might not field men-at-arms, which leads to a full mounted army, which means that Dance Macabre will be crucial to cut away his movement. Stop those combined charges and u will emerge victorious.
10. All knights have 2+ armor and 8" movement...Not to mention the 6+ (5+ if str5+) ward save.Keep that in mind if u are trying to hit with anything str4 or below, as the mortality rate of the knight unit will be close to 0 (if not 0).
11. If u see a train of 12 errant knights, with or without a paladin, try to avoid it. They might have the Errantry banner which confers a +1 str on charge for the knight errants only, which means that they will hit with at least 10, str 6 attacks, able to wipe out a lot of things.
12. You will ALWAYS play first. Bretonnians have to pray so they forfeit playing first, so they can get the army-wide (knight units) 6++/5++ ward save. They lose the ward save if they flee for any reason, so use that information to your advantage.
All in all, if u a) tarpit his main pain train, b) dominate Magic, control his phase, and c) kill of trebs fast enough, the game will be yours.
This my insight on a regular, non cheesy bret army.
I have not played (nor will I ever do) with a RAF bret army (Royal Army Force), with pegasus knights and characters on pegs, so I can't give any advice on that, other that it's super fast but not as hard hitting.
Hope I helped all of the VC players, even if it means betraying my Bret friends. I'm from Mousillion anyway
Dude, As Someone who is trying to get his wife into playing Brets, That was such an informative post with a great overview of there tactics and how to use them effectively! Thanks!!!!
StavrosVonStrongheim
Zombie
Doing the best I can for my fellows in the forums
If you need anything else, just ask away.
I'm pretty confident when it comes to Bretonnia XD
If you need anything else, just ask away.
I'm pretty confident when it comes to Bretonnia XD
StavrosVonStrongheim
Zombie
Blood knights definitely have the upper hand against all of Bret's cavalry in terms of stats. The only thing close to them are the Grail Knights, but they are still T3 (mere humans). But if u count the lance formation, 15 blood knights have 3 ranks (and if they lose even 1 man, 2) while 15 knights have 5 ranks. And bret knights go for only 20-38 a head (20 flimsy errants to 38 powerful grails). If blood knights get charged, even the soft Knights Errant will be able to deal sufficient damage. Even if they lose combat, brets are gonna be steadfast. And with a charge range of 12-20 easy, "all your base are belong to us": say hallo to the bretonnian unit on your flank....And this is what makes the difference. Personally, I would think twice to send a 15unit of blood knights on any bretonnian train of 9 or more...Yes, even 9 ppl might be able to hold off against them...A 2+ armor and a 5++ ward is no joke.
A Terrorgheist will be a more solid choice, as the no armor saves allowed greatly reduces the chances of keeping wounds out. Still, never underestimate the power of the Lady, as many a times that 6++/5++ ward has saved my knights from certain doom.
Bretonnia is not the best cavalry based on stats but based on overall strategy and we should always have that in mind when fighting them.
But not to worry about strategy,fellow vampires, you got me here, straight out of Musillion and eager to share with you everything u need to know about fighting them
A Terrorgheist will be a more solid choice, as the no armor saves allowed greatly reduces the chances of keeping wounds out. Still, never underestimate the power of the Lady, as many a times that 6++/5++ ward has saved my knights from certain doom.
Bretonnia is not the best cavalry based on stats but based on overall strategy and we should always have that in mind when fighting them.
But not to worry about strategy,fellow vampires, you got me here, straight out of Musillion and eager to share with you everything u need to know about fighting them
The maneuverability of the TGs with their fly would be vastly superior not to mention incredibly annoying. Any time anything (outside of a trebuchet) gets even vaguely close to a threatening position to a TG, boopiedoo, it hops over round to the back of them.