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Plot discussion - Nagash hates Sigmar?

El Syf

Crypt Horror
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
575
#51
The fyreslayers do not represent the general duradain though, they may still be that way inclined.

On a different note what with us being dumped in the balance of power book will we still get our own tome?
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
878
#52
The fyreslayers do not represent the general duradain though, they may still be that way inclined.
That's true, but they are also strange - all their models are infused with fire and painted like that, but also we get to know they live everywhere and are quite different. Surprise. >_<
On a different note what with us being dumped in the balance of power book will we still get our own tome?
GW is GW, but I still think yes, we will, maybe sometime after this. I do hope GW's still thinking how to make our re-release, so to speak, the best way possible.
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
179
#54
Has seen that art today too. I wonder - is it an illustration for the Balance of Power or the Death battletome?
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
878
#55
For Balance, but could be definitely used in our new tome, as lots of known arts are used in Сhaos: Grand Alliance.
 

Oppenheimer

Crypt Horror
Joined
May 26, 2013
Messages
556
#58
@Malisteen
Quickly read over the Alarielle and Neferata sections of Balance of Power and in general they are okay fluff, if you want to read yet more Stormcast versus chaos stuff, there are more problems with agency with both the female characters.

Alarielle is literally objectified. She is carried around the entire time inside a seed pod. At least the lady of vines gets to speak for her somewhat. But in the end the lady of vines is killed by a male chaos lord and the seed pod is rescued by a Stormcast. Alarielle doesn't get a chance to be bad ass or defend herself at all.

Neferata fairs a bit better. She gets to command a vampire lord on zombie dragon (her lover) and is said to have been ruling as queen of Nulhamia for centuries. But she is powerless to stop a Chaos lord from sacking her city. She is even almost killed by him while she is unaware but us saved by a Stormcast eternal. But even more problematic is that she actually wants to speak to him as she wants to manipulate the Stormcasts but before she can say a word Nagash possesses her and uses her body to speak to the Stormcast emissary in his voice instead.
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
2,100
#59
*Le Biggest Sigh*

Damn it. It seems Age of Sigmar could still just as easily go by the title 'Party of Sausage'. The Sigmarines being the only ones allowed to actually do anything meaningful on the anti-chaos team continues to be just the absolute most frustrating part of the new fluff, and it is especially egregious when they're stealing the thunder of the vanishingly few female characters in the fluff.

Also, yet more inconsistency with the audio dramas, in that:
If Nagash can just bodily possess his Mortarchs on a whim, imposing his will on them without they're invitation and despite their resistance, then how was Mannfred every able to go against Nagash in the first place? Especially when he was in the Necromancer's physical presence?

Or is it just that the wimmins that are so weak that their minds are easily dominated by the minfolk, and that's why Mannfred was able to run away even from Nagash's inner sanctum, while Neferata gets controlled easily from a great distance?

I'm used to the gender politics in nerd hobbies being bad, but Age of Sigmar's is starting to approach the level of actually off-putting for me. Which is frustrating, because between negative online discussion and the local store not being much for it, I sometimes feel like I'm the only person I know who's even trying to give this game a shot.
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
878
#60
Aye, in the dramas it is all quite different - judging by the "Balance of power", Nagash is ready and rarin', and he at least considers what Sigmar offers. That's really interesting.
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
2,100
#61
PLEASE NOTE:

I had formed a slightly incorrect impression of the scene with Nagash controlling Neferata - she willingly hands him control, it's not presented as something he could have done by force, so theoretically is not completely at odds with Mannfred making a break for it.

Also, Nagash hasn't done or said anything when that part of the story closes. The next campaign book could pick up with him launching into a half coherent tirade and attacking his potential allies while chaos falls on them both, in which case he would still be in character with audio drama nagash.

We'll see.
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
878
#62
Or vice verse - after all, it's just a fiction, like always with BL, but fluff is driven and defined by large books, so I guess Nagash will be quite reasonable, for he has no choice - Archaon will slice his heart in two again, if Nagash will be again one on one with him.
 

Oppenheimer

Crypt Horror
Joined
May 26, 2013
Messages
556
#63
PLEASE NOTE:

I had formed a slightly incorrect impression of the scene with Nagash controlling Neferata - she willingly hands him control, it's not presented as something he could have done by force, so theoretically is not completely at odds with Mannfred making a break for it
Yeah I noticed you'd assumed he forced control, but frankly surrendering power and decision making to a man who she hoped was dead isn't any more empowering anyway so I didn't bother to correct you.
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
179
#65
It seems that in the end Nagash decided to ally with Sigmar (Source - a Godbeasts page photo)
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
878
#66
The things go more interesting - in Balance of Power, as we remember, Nagash considered the offer of Sigmar to form an alliance once more, and in the Godbeasts one of the Stormcasts saw in Shyish his warriors marching together with the wights of Nagash. Interesting.
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
2,100
#67
Still no word on exactly what that means, though. I'm hoping Nagash has found a way to corrupt Sigmarines, asserting his will over them as the lord of the dead. Maybe along with some rules for death-faction versions of some sigmarine units.
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
878
#68
Indeed, it clearly states what it means. An alliance is formed, like with goblins or orcs. Corrupted Sigmarines are from another universe. ;)
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
2,100
#69
Does it state that? I thought the scene in godbeasts didnt get a close enough look to definitively say what was going on.
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
878
#70
It certainly does. The lord-relictor says they've got friends and more, and then they see their warrior chamber marching with the forces of Nagash. It is just a logical continuation of the plot to forge an alliance with Nagash and Gorkamorka (as well as Alarielle) once more.
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
2,100
#71
shrug then, I guess. imo, it kind of undermines the 'four grand alliances' when three of those alliances are themselves allied. Might as well just be 'order' and 'chaos', and drop the pretense of 'destruction' and 'death' being their own thing altogether. Especially considering how small the latter two are.
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
878
#72
They are separate, but in case of the plot they can be somewhat allied, because Chaos is too strong. I don't think this alliances will last for too long like they were broken before, and it's only a fraction of each faction, so I would not that worry.
 
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
Messages
183
#73
They are separate, but in case of the plot they can be somewhat allied, because Chaos is too strong. I don't think this alliances will last for too long like they were broken before, and it's only a fraction of each faction, so I would not that worry.
I'd have to agree. Considering the current size of the ranges for Death & Destruction, it would be rather difficult for GW to forge a narrative for either faction when set against the background of 'Chaos has already beaten everything you had'. Following the tradition of 'New is always Better' we'll see what influence the Iron-Jaws, Flesh-Eaters & Sylvaneth have on the plot of the next storyline book (noting the role the Fyreslayers had in Godbeasts).

A the moment, the driving force of the story they're crafting is the journey of the Stormcasts to push chaos back in the realms & give the people of those realms a chance to re-organise & join the fight. Only once we've had a few more sub-factions fleshed out as this storyline progresses & have an idea of their impact & influence on the grander scale, will we be in a position to move away from the 'heroic team-up' phase that we're currently experiencing & get back to the backstabbing & treachery we all love :)

I'd expect the godbeasts themselves to be the first stage of this process - we'll see which of them aligns with whom & who survives (as it would be rather odd to have all these monstrous beings on one side wouldn't it?)

My two pence anyway.
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
878
#74
Aye, exactly so. They were united once and betrayed each other, so it could be again. This factions are mostly mercenaries, like fyreslayers fighting for ur-gold, ghouls fighting for meals (even chaos warlords seek their aid sometimes), or orcs fighting anyone.
 
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