PRICE RAISE!!!

[logan054]

Hah I think the way I wrote that people would think english was my 2nd language! anyways..

with 40k I keep wanting to start a new army, atm I only have my blood ravens and I really just get so bored of using standard marine armies, ohh look I'm going to rapid fire you and then chase you with assault termies, yay for me! I was actually looking the price of a 1750pts grey knight list (one that was actually combat orientated)and it was over £200, how many models? less than 40 and not using any forgeworld bitz... its a joke! I think the only way to actually start a new army is to buy outside of GW either ebay or someone like Mantic (who I see are making a 40k type game). The main difference between the rules of back in the day and now is GW actually used WD to publish new rules, back in 3rd ed 40k I remember they actually printed new rules for terminator armour (giving them the 5+ invul), i remember they had rules for splitting command squads up, you would get new armylist (best one was the flesh tearer one).

I think you have hit the nail right on the head, usually those no brainer choices are something expensive money wise but require large amounts of them, when I went to SCGT all the armies just looked the same, it has made me decide next one I go I will just what I like the look off and be damned about it performs on the table! After reading the Grey knight I can really see why people dislike the guy so much, it has to be the most unbalanced book I have read in a long time, so for 4pts a grey knight gains a force weapon, a stormbolter, grenades that effect psykers and can cast +1 strength on themselves? lol!

I don't think I would mind the premium as much if GW spent more time on the rules

 

[TJK1991]

im done with GW and i am going to stop buying products, i will still play just stick with what i have, and cross my fingers hoping they will lower the prices, who knows they might start charging customers to use there gaming tables, i wouldnt be surprised

 

[Coyote]

The whole issue makes me a bit sad. For those that care, here's my recent experience:

• So a couple of weeks ago, the Friday after the Price Increase and before Finecast was released, I went to my local GW Store and bought a bunch of stuff. Several novels, the new Tomb Kings Army Book, and two boxes of TK models. Although the total seemed a bit high, I make a nice living, so I didn't worry about it.
  
  "Why did you buy TK, Coyote? You play VC." Right you are. But, I also play WE, and SM and Necrons in 40k. I found many moons ago that TK are great for bits for my other armies. (My SM field Legion of the Damned, for which TK bits are great. And Necrons are TK with Gauss Blasters...) So, I pickup TKs every so often, especially when I've got conversations in mind. And the new models have "Convert Me" written right on the box.
  
  When I got home, I eagerly went through the bag and finally noticed the price tags on the boxes of models. I realized that the combined price for 1 box of 10 Special infantry and 1 box of 3 Monstrous Cavalry (13x models, if you were counting) was $101. Whoa, wait a minute. Now, I know that the cost of materials (petroleum), transportation, and (to a lesser extent) labor has increased since I joined the hobby in '06. And GW deserves to make a profit. But this stuff used to cost ~$60. About $70ish around X-mas. And, yes, the quality of what we get has gone up markedly in the last two years. But really, a hundred bucks for conversion material?
  
  This caused me to dig around the net. And the most coherent of the numerous rants out there I found at Tabletop Hooligans. I am a Capitalist at heart, not an Internet-whiner. I vote with my money. I whole-heartedly believe that Price is, and should be, determined by Supply and Demand. While GW's might argue that Price should rise due to decreased Supply (of raw materials, represented by increase manufacturing and distribution costs), this drastic of a price increase has had the net effect on me decreasing (my) Demand. I'm not going to pay premium prices for models that do not precisely fit my primary armies. Models used for converting have less value to me. Period.
  
  It's not like GW's hurting for cash, their stock price is under performing, they're fighting for market-share, or their Earning Per Share needed a boost. GW's been wowing the investor community: they report steady earnings (in spite of world-wide recessions), solid profits, near monopoly market-share, and GW's Earnings Per Share has TRIPLED. This has resulted in GW's stock price and valuation returning to pre-Great Recession levels. All this before the price increase under discussion. Bully for GW.
  
  So, I went back in Friday and returned the TK models. I really like the guys at my local GW. They're good people and good employees. And I think that it's unfortunate that this action I took might reflect poorly on them. That's not fair to GW's employees.
  
  However, a 20-25% price increase is even less fair to the fan-base. What's most egregious about the whole thing is that it's not just an increase on new product. No, models that haven't seen a rerelease since 3rd Ed. (Necron Warriors, et. al.) got the same bump. That's not a price increase. It's price gauging. And I vote with my dollars.
  
  So, I'll continue to play. I'll even buy GW product. But I'll but less. I'll only buy those items with directly impact my primary armies. I won't impulse buy other models, and that means that I'll spend markedly less on GW product.
  
  And the worst part for GW in all this: I'm looking seriously at 3rd-party minis for the first time. Other customers will start to consider counterfeiting. GW has established that they are not loyal to me or us as as customers. Why should we be loyal to them?

Thanks for indulging the Wall of Text. :slapface:

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

A fantastic post Coyote, and thank you for the link. Some of the points there really made me think, and certainly it certainly seems to be the case with many companies. Funnily enough reading through that reminded me very much of the company I work for.


I know many people think you can't do anything about it, that you just have to grin and bear it. I personally don't think we do. As the customer we have the choice, and we do have a choice:

1. Alternative suppliers such as Reaper, Mantic etc
2. Buying second hand of Ebay / Barter town
3. Instead of buying a new army, trade your old one if no longer using it on places like CN or other forums
4. If you really need to buy, buy what you need and don't do impluse buying you may have done in the past.

If enough people did that for a while, eventually it would have an impact. I do feel sorry for the employees of GW who have no choice in the pricing and could be affected, but let's be honest here. I earn my money for myself and my family, not to be ripped off. I know personally I still love warhammer, I will still play it, but next to none of my models will be coming from GW.

 

[Coyote]

...and we do have a choice:

5. Buying models on the Undertaker's Auction and donating a portion of the proceeds to supporting a great website that you like. *hint* *hint*

Sry, I thought that the shameless plug was appropriate. Thx for the thoughts, DoN. ;-)

 

[LizardKnight]

[/quote]
Overal though, this hobby is still miles cheaper than video gaming/PC gaming! Heck, for the start-up cost of our hobby, I can get a very sizable force for what it would cost me to get an X-box, additional controller, extra game or two, on-line play fee, hint books and god knows what else you'd want!

Cheers!
[/quote]

Mmm, thats a close call. The models + paints and brushes + Terrain (Even making it yourself) I think Warhammer costs the same if not more. At least to me, I cant stop making more boards / terrain features

 

[logan054]

If enough people did that for a while, eventually it would have an impact. I do feel sorry for the employees of GW who have no choice in the pricing and could be affected, but let's be honest here. I earn my money for myself and my family, not to be ripped off. I know personally I still love warhammer, I will still play it, but next to none of my models will be coming from GW.

I actually think enough people are doing that, I thin thats why the profits remain pretty steady even with the price rises and cost saving measures. I think its going to be interesting to see the finecast botch, price rise and trade embargo effects their profits.

 

[Aren]

Sorry, but I havn't read the whole thread, if I did i would be reading the same thing again in different words. So, let me do the same except different. A few weeks ago I watched an overly long but fascinating video about how GW are going to take over the world (not literarly but you get the idea) and I thought about it, thought about it some more untill....... I had to agree with the person. The video is "The Great Games Workshop conspiracy ....well, more like an opinion" interestingly, a few days ago the video was deleted so that COULD mean that the guy was right and Games Workshop have got a doomsday plan for all of us. Anyway if you can't find a way of watching it in a few days i'll post a thread containing basicly most of what he said, except from the bits that I've forgotten.

 

[Coyote]

UPDATE:

• Placed my first order with Mantic today. That's $234 that Games Workshop will never see, in exchange for what would've cost me $600 at my local store. Welcome to the power of the Free Market.

 

[eastern barbarian]

I personally hope they will fall, then somebody else woulod buy their IP and turn it into fan-friendly business again.

 

[Aren]

Nah, GW is too clever for that. Why do you think they raise their prices ever so slightly each time? So tha people dont mind it as much as say if they raised their prices up £10 every two years. A squad of Space Marines was about £5 when they started with them, now look at the prices. Also, if you were starting off, you would accept that the models are WORTH what they are PRICED on Games Workshop. You would never think they would be for less. Now we might be complaining about price raises. Take Necrons for example : £18 for ten Necron Warriors and three Scarab Swarms. Now its £20 something for that. So say one of you would start Necrons in a year. The price for all that would be £25, but you'd just accept that thats what its worth, you'd never even dream of £18 for the box. Conclusion: Games Workshop soon will be making seriously heavy money if they arent already, and if people dont switch to cheaper companies (Mantic) then soon they'll be spending £500 on a 1000pts army of PLASTIC TOY SOLDIERS (fair enough, i love MY plastic toy soldiers to bits)the end

 

[eastern barbarian]

you seem to miss the fact that a lot of people don't just START the hobby now but have been around for years and have seen continuous price increases and KNOW how much they increased in price. As a matter of fact as well GW is selling less and less. so far they manage to keep high profits due to reductions, cost cutting and raising prices but it will not last forever. Besides as far as "small adjustmens" to their prices go I think you also failed to notice that on average their products increased by 20% during last hike

 

[Coyote]

... on average their products increased by 20% during last hike

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I won't be as offended if the price increases were limited to new models. I mean, let's face it, as consumers we face and generally accept price increases all the time elsewhere in our lives. Cars, coffee, gas (OMFG), groceries, etc.

No, what tore it for me was the across the board price gouging. A serious cross-section of the product line hasn't been updated in over 5 years and now costs double what it did when I started. Adding insult to injury is that the increase doesn't just apply to those items that might be impacted by petroleum increases. It's everything. Paint, cases, glue, books, everything.

For example, I bought my last cans of basecoat from GW the other day, since I wanted my unpainted models to have a consistant undercoat. Following the price increase, a can of basecoat was $15.75. And plastic glue was $6.60. I'll pay that once 'cuz I was already there, but not again. I'll go to other hobby stores or art stores and pay half that much, thank you.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying these things or taking these actions just be cheap. Heck, I pay $5 for a Venti, soy, toffee nut, latte at Starbucks and I won't blink. (Yeah, it's sissy-fufu-coffee. I can't drink milk and I have taste. Get over it.) I pay for quality, for good service, and/or for a good experience. The increased detail and quality I'm seeing in the Finecast lineup justifies some level of price increase those models in my mind, even if some folks are complaining about miscasts. But a retailer should not think for a moment that they can put me, or others that think as I do, over a barrel. Doing so is sure way to reduce Demand, perhaps permanently. And that is not in the best interests of GW's shareholders.

 

[logan054]

No, what tore it for me was the across the board price gouging. A serious cross-section of the product line hasn't been updated in over 5 years and now costs double what it did when I started. Adding insult to injury is that the increase doesn't just apply to those items that might be impacted by petroleum increases. It's everything. Paint, cases, glue, books, everything.

What Erks me is that in some cases since I started the plastic kits cost sometimes double what the metal version used to, when I started it was £12 for a box of metal tactical marines. Remember on the GW website some time ago they had Engrim van horstman on his dragon, I think orignally that was something like £20-25. In the collecters range it was list ay over £75!

 

[Sanai]

Personally I do not see the point in complaining about the price raises.
Does it make you feel better about paying the prices to complain about the price raises, or do you feel the need to justify your choices to buy other ranges to a bunch of strangers?
Do you think that complaining here will make Games Workshop lower their prices?

Eh, sorry, just tired of watching people whine.
I go to play world of tanks, and everyone whines about balance and the fact people can pay real money for tanks.
I go to play a game of warhammer 40k, and I hear complaint about the fact that Imperial Guard can have manticores and cheap chimeras.
I go to play warhammer fantasy, and people complain about the magic phase being too powerful.
I go to purchase something from games workshop, and people complain about prices.

Everywhere I go there is someone complaining about something!

 

[desfer]

Personally I do not see the point in complaining about the price raises.
Does it make you feel better about paying the prices to complain about the price raises, or do you feel the need to justify your choices to buy other ranges to a bunch of strangers?
Do you think that complaining here will make Games Workshop lower their prices?

Eh, sorry, just tired of watching people whine.
I go to play world of tanks, and everyone whines about balance and the fact people can pay real money for tanks.
I go to play a game of warhammer 40k, and I hear complaint about the fact that Imperial Guard can have manticores and cheap chimeras.
I go to play warhammer fantasy, and people complain about the magic phase being too powerful.
I go to purchase something from games workshop, and people complain about prices.

Everywhere I go there is someone complaining about something!

Well its natural, people complain about everything. Always there will be something to complain about, sometimes very important, other times just something stupid. You can't change that, the only thing you can do is ignore it. Now for example you complain about complains :tongue:
(need to write word complain 10 more times...or maybe more. Then my post will be complete :tongue: )

 

[Sanai]

People do seem to just love complaining. Now don't anyone think I am unsympathetic about Games Workshop prices, by living in Western Australia I have to pay around 30-100% more than american and british people for anything to do with gaming! (both tabletop and computer gaming) because of the ridiculous price difference in this country.

 

[desfer]

I know how you feel Sanai, things aren't so different in here too. Video games are very expensive (we pay 70 euros for a game that in the US costs about 40-50 dollars max!!!), wargaming and modeling stuff in general are very expensive too. Actually everything is very expensive compared to our salaries which are getting lower and lower every day, but that's not the place to start talking about it :silent:

 

[Fenrir]

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying these things or taking these actions just be cheap. Heck, I pay $5 for a Venti, soy, toffee nut, latte at Starbucks and I won't blink. (Yeah, it's sissy-fufu-coffee. I can't drink milk and I have taste. Get over it.) I pay for quality, for good service, and/or for a good experience.

I agree with this. Although I've kerbed it slightly now, I still have record collector instincts and buy vinyl for editions of stuff that I fancy - even though I don't actually own a vinyl player and can't play them.

Why? Because I consider the product to be worth the money and it's something that I want to own. Looking at around £16-£18 per item here. I'm also prepared to soak up the extra expense in order to support the label itself.

I've all but stopped buying anything from GW (two metal models this year) as I just don't consider GW's products to be worth the price. This from a person who will rebuy CD's because they come with different packaing or cover. I did stop buying GW last year before the current price rise, so this one has just made me less like to get back into the GW cycle.


Been selling off the extra armies and whatnot that have built up over time and using the profit to buy stuff for other things. Including more vinyl.

 

[artisturn]

Sure GW prices seem high for little plastic soldiers but at least they don't vanish after one use in a game.

Every time I have to put gas in my truck I cringe , right now it is a little over 70 bucks to fill the beast and gas gets higher with every fill up.

I am dreading when gas hits 4 bucks a gallon again, then it a little over a 100 bucks to fill up the tank.

 

[eastern barbarian]

seriously , prices of gas/petrol and GW miniatures are COMPLETELY different category mate

 

[Fenrir]

Sure GW prices seem high for little plastic soldiers but at least they don't vanish after one use in a game.

No they don't, but they can get made nigh useless on the table when GW decides to push a new model and weakens the rules for said models.

 

[artisturn]

the point I was trying to make.

prices are high for every thing in this world .

And our little toys do not vanish after one use.

Gas was the only example I could think about that we all may share in common.

I am just frustrated about the constant bitching about GW prices I come across in every forum (not just here)

It is a hobby for god's sake and is not a necessary product that we need to survive.

 

[Fenrir]

I am just frustrated about the constant bitching about GW prices I come across in every forum (not just here)

Afriad you'll have to toughen up, as it'll only get worse and worse.

It is only a hobby, but GW need to sell this product to survive. Prices are higher than a lot of people are prepared to pay, so they'll vent on the interweb.

It's tha rules.

 

[merenwen]

My fiance and I have a method we use to see if something is worth the money we are paying for it, we use it for games and entertainment, basicly its a £1 per hour of enjoyment, when looking at an xbox game we are thinking to buy, say it costs £25 but the story line takes only 7 hours to complete and there isnt much replay-ability to it or co-op modes or online fun to be had, (or if you get all the achievements in the first play through) then we wont buy it and wait till it goes down in price, we do the same with GW models, if its a vital piece to an army build and we will enjoy putting it together, painting it and using it in lots of games then we will buy it. It seems to work well for us.