Pricing for Nagash

[Skittelz1981]

So, today the pre-order pricing has come online....

Nagash, 65 british pounds, aka 85 euros (which is too expensive since 65 pound is 81 euros in conversion, so europe gets nailed even harder), aka 107 USdollar (most likely 110 retailprice), aka 115 Ozzydollar (most likely 125-130 considering their rip-off prices )

All in all, even though the model looks absolutely stunning, its pricing is stunning as well.... 85€ for a single model is really insane... it costs as much as a Batallionbox.
Together with the book The End of Times, it costs a whopping 150€ !!


As soon as a chinese recaster got its paws on it, thats where im gonna go.
Appaently they really didnt learn from anything at GW
Why would this model be 35€ more expensive than a TG or ME. The retail price is 70% more expensive!!!
You can make me believe alot, but this stuff isnt 70% more expensive in its production costs...

This is another GW-ripoff of their fanbase, instead of produding adequately priced stuff, theyre overcharging and hoping that the hype is going to pay off....

 

[najo]

Some things to consider with pricing. First, models usually are cheaper the more they can turn over and expensive when they don't. GW doesn't expect to sell a ton of nagash. You only need one, and not every one of us is buying it. Second, the model is a complicated sculpt. Third, GW has lots of competitors and alternatives, that pricing is similar to other companies large models. Fourth, buying from companies whose products you enjoy keeps them in business. Five, supporting Chinese recasters hurts UK and US jobs.

Just understand the full scope of the situation before declaring nagash is over priced. Also, you might be able to work a deal out with your local retailer to get a discount on nagash so you don't have to pay full price. Could be a win/win.

And so you know, I've played warhammer for 25 years. I am the most excited I've been in a long time for this end times stuff and the new undead models. I will gladly support GW and buy these if the end times maintains quality and lives up to what it promises. I know I've been really disappointed with the white dwarf being all 40k, then got my nagash one today and haven't been able to stop looking though it lol. I feel like a kid at Christmas! Lol.

 

[Von Calyptra]

It's definitely really expensive. I haven't decided yet if, in my opinion, it's overpriced. I think I might need to see the model in person.

Another way to look at it is the dollars to points ratio. I don't have time to work it out right now, but I suspect when viewed that way, it's not a bad deal.

 

[Sanguinus]

First, models usually are cheaper the more they can turn over and expensive when they don't. GW doesn't expect to sell a ton of nagash. You only need one, and not every one of us is buying it.

This is the main reason for the inflated price. Even assuming the moulds for Nagash cost the same to make as the ZD/TG, or CT/ME, it won't sell nearly as many, so requires a higher price tag just to recoup the expenses of production, before even making a profit.

 

[Skittelz1981]

@najo its overpriced.... no atter what you say.

I support GW, except when i feel that theyre asking too much, which is the case right here.

Its a complicated sculpt, true. The sales rate will be relatively small compared to core units.... true
Its a collectors model, pretty much evey painter/modeller will want this one for its collection, not just Undead players.... Upping its sales again.

The fact its a complicated sculpt doesnt mean anything.... they create a mould and thats it...

Overcharging is hurting UK/US jobs, since alot of people will turn to cheaper alternatives.

I wanted to buy it, until i saw the pricetag.


Overpricing is hurting sales more than you think.

In my meta theres 10 people. Out of these 10, 8 of them (me included) hardly ever buy from GW. 90% comes from ebay-like websites, buying off used models from other people. Or buying from independant official retailers that charge 10-20% less.

2 of them tend to buy abit more from GW itself but arent shy to order elsewhere.



This clearly depicts how GW is missing out on revenue. I know several other metas and people that do exactly the same.
GW is cutting off its own fingers by charging ridiculous amount of money for sculpts that already earn a profit at half its price. Dont worry, i know what prices retailers buy it off of GW, so i know when GW actually starts making enough of a profit to be willing to sell it to retailers.

Buy it off of their store or webshop and you get rammed their rip-off prices right up your bottom.
I had expected Nagash to be around 60€, which i would have paid most likely. The sculpt isnt that much more complicated than the ME (which is a Dual kit, dont forget that) and not that much bigger either.
85€ is, like i said 70% more expensive..... no matter how complicated it looks or big it seems.... its just absolutely not worth 70% more, and sure as hell didnt cost 70% more to make.
Yet that is what you get charged as fanboy, another epic move towards unfriending your friends.


Reminds me of this movie: "How to lose friends and alienate people".



EDIT: Dont forget this Nagash is meant for both VC players AND TK players..... so its not just VC players buying it. and like i said earlier, nearly every painter/modeller will most likely want it due to its epicness.
Rules in this campaign have been altered so that he can be fielded at 2k points (smart move for the gaming community)so as not to deterr people with not-so-big armies.

They have thought out every way to make sure the selling platform is as big as they could make, even changing basic rules in the setup of the army.
They failed at chosing an adequate and fair price though, but thats a common thing for GW. Maybe i was just naive to believe they would be smarter this time.

 

[Kezza921]

Well I can explain why the Aus$ one is so expensive is becasue of the Australian tax...everything is more expensive for us

 

[Sception]

He's as big as a knight titan, or any of the hordes/warmachine colossals, and similarly priced, while, imo, being a more impressive desicn than any of them. Is he still overprived? I don't know. Maybe? But it's Nagash, so I don't care. I've been waiting 15 years for nagash.

But if your measure of overpriced is based on chinese recasters and not other competitors with their own design costs, recaster prices which also do not need to factor in a profit margin for local retailors so people have a place to meet and play, then everything will look overpriced to you. That's like saying a candy bar is overpriced at a dollar when you could steal it for free.

 

[Skittelz1981]

But it's Nagash, so I don't care. I've been waiting 15 years for nagash.

@Malisteen

thats like saying a 1 dollar candybar is worth 10 dollars, just because youre so eager on having it and been waiting for so long for it.....


Anyway, im basing my view on this in comparing the prices of other large models within warhammer and with my knowledge of what productioncosts are.

 

[Sception]

Are those other large models limilarly huge single model (non dual kit) special characters limited to a particular campaign?

 

[Banat]

I thought you'd realised by now that GW doesn't price their models based on the actual plastic value of the model itself, but on how that model performs on the table top. Most Battalion's are about 500pts worth of models, Nagash is 1000 so in those terms he's a bargain! =P

 

[Skittelz1981]

a dual kit is more expensive. it contains more plastic parts and has had 2 designs, based on the same platform. So in terms of design, a dualkit is worth more. In terms of plastic, its the same amount

What saves them money (or makes more money) on dual kits is that the mould actually produces 2 models, rather than one (saving money) and that the customer is paying more for a box which effectively contains 1.5 model.


a single mould producing a ME/CV box being priced at 50€ rather than 40€ for just a ME is gonna be a better option than having 1 mould for a 40€ ME and 1 mould for a 40€ CV.
The savings are in the mould, in the packaging, in the shipping and in the amount of storage/in-store space needed.
The customer then pays a higher fee for a dualkit which isnt really a dualkit, since you can only make 1 of the 2. If you want one of each, youre gonna have to pay the increased price for another dualkit to craft the other.

Here again, no matter how your storemanager tries to make you believe, its a scheme to get more money from the customer and make you pay more for less. Sure you get some extra bits, some poweder in your greedy eyes, to make you feel better and think that that is worth the 10€ extra.... but thats really a con-artist at work.... those few extra bits cost 0.05€ in materials and the same mould is crafting it anyway, so no extra development or costs there.


Its exactly that idea: "oh its a special character" "oh its a campaign" "oh its so long since ive been waiting for it" "oh its so huge" ...... really, its just not a reason to make it cost 70% more than another big model.
Its not Finecast, its just plastic.... For which the moulds and productioncosts were supposed (and are) to be cheaper than resin....
Also how they market it, its meant not for a single army, so theyre aiming for higher sales returns, higher than usually aimed for with special characters....

 

[RTGamer]

The model is 9" tall. Comes with the rules in the box. He is Nagash.

At my discount he is $78.75. That is a great price for a great model.

Do I wish he was cheaper of course I do. Don't we all want something cheaper? But in terms of value I think presents at least 20+ hours painting then at least 20-50 hours playing with him so. $1.96 ($2.63 for MSRRP) an hour of entertainment for me. That's worth it.

 

[Skittelz1981]

Five, supporting Chinese recasters hurts UK and US jobs.

I dont care about US or UK or Chinese jobs.... a chinese guy has as much right to earn a living as an english or US guy. On top of that, if that is what you worry about, then you shouldnt be buying GW stuff at all, since most of it is printed in China or partially produced there.... Dont think that GW hasnt been doing any outsourcing to the cheaper countries, hurting UK and US jobs just as much...
This goes for all companies from our western hemispheres that outsource everything towards asia, to have cheap slavelabour where we dont care and then sell it back to similar prices as it wouldve been anyway.

But thats an entirely different discussion and going way off topic, but its sure not a valid argument to take into consideration for buying it or not lol

 

[lord marcus]

My two cents.

A) Games workshops recent financial report preamble stated they do not do market research, therefore they don;t give a crap about their customers buying patterns or the fact that GW does have competition.

B) He is the size of an eldar wraithknight, and has the same pricing as one. they are technically being consistent.

 

[Atrophus]

He's actually a little bit cheaper than a wraithknight, aswell as being a hell of a lot more detailed.
And as they'll only be able to sell one per army and likely for only aslong as the end times lasts, I think he's fairly well priced.
Especially when you consider he's basically only the same cost as 5 blood knights.
And it's Nagash

 

[lord marcus]

There is conversion potential for a hierotitan

 

[Sir Geheimnisnacht]

I have to say I'm far more comfortable with Nagash's pricing than that of the blood knights or even grave guard, especially when there isn't a possibility of running an enormous unit of Nagashes (Nagashi?) and needing more than one.

Since Nagash's tabletop use will be somewhat limited, I'm just grateful he wasn't a Forgeworld release. I can't fathom what he'd cost then.

 

[lord marcus]

I have to say I'm far more comfortable with Nagash's pricing than that of the blood knights or even grave guard, especially when there isn't a possibility of running an enormous unit of Nagashes (Nagashi?) and needing more than one.

Since Nagash's tabletop use will be somewhat limited, I'm just grateful he wasn't a Forgeworld release. I can't fathom what he'd cost then.

He's part of a main GW campaign, i doubt he would have been a FW release, but yea the price would have been insane

 

[Sir Geheimnisnacht]

I'm just speaking of his "nicheness" which often is the reasoning they send the job to Forgeworld and their factories that run off gold instead of electricity. It makes sense he wasn't a Forgeworld release, but the fact that he isn't just the same, I think, is still a stormcloud lining to his hefty price tag to be appreciated.

 

[najo]

@Skittelz1981 I understand you feel the model is over priced and that your very passionate about this subject. You are welcome to your opinion. You said many of my points were true and other forum members have giving similar reasons.

GW gets criticized for their pricing, but usually when compared to similar companies and products they are in the same price range. You site wholesale verses retail pricing, and yes there is a margin for retailers. But our hobby is community driven and the FLGS play an important role in it. Supporting FLGS if you play at one is important, and most have discount programs which is why I suggested you working a deal out with one.

You ultimately can vote with your dollar. Technically recasters are pirating, so it's not exactly a legimate alternative to western apply lines and supporting that indirectly hurts the hobby in the long run. Ideally, finding a win/win some how for you and your local having scene is the best option.

Another consideration on pricing, GW has had good years and bad years. They do not consistently make a profit. If everything were so overpriced they would be making money hands over fist and sitting on a huge pile of cash in the bank like Apple. But they aren't. This tells me either GW doesn't know how to run a company (which is easy to blame them for but isn't so black and white) or GW really is pricing things properly to keep the company running. If it's the later then we have to accept the fact that our hobby is a luxury and is a niche market. Thus GW has to charge premium to recoop expenses since they can't do column like Apple does (who charges premium prices too compared to their competitors ironically).

Any rate, not lecturing. Just trying to help provide another perspective. We all love this hobby and enjoy it together, and it seems allot of warhammer players are excited about this release. I know I am! Let's do our best to enjoy it and help our game we all love thrive.

 

[Sir Geheimnisnacht]

Hmm, I'm not certain I agree that GW's price hikes are necessary or even necessarily beneficial for GW themselves. Unless their costs are astronomical -- I can't say I've looked into that side of their business -- it seems like they'd make more money by cutting their prices across the board and making the game for affordable for the average person solely for the amount of new and on the fence customers a measure like that would generate. Not to mention current players who would be more apt to expand into other armies they don't play. A lot of us would probably end up spending more money than we do now if kits were cheaper.

The biggest obstacles for new players are: cost of investment and time/learning curve of the hobby aspect. I think they've made strides with their painting and hobby lines to make painting less intimidating, but apart from some of the kits like Island of Blood, they've done very little to combat the deterrent of how costly the game is.

This is just talk for talk's sake. GW's current pricing isn't to the point where I've considered recasters or other companies.

 

[lord marcus]

Hmm, I'm not certain I agree that GW's price hikes are necessary or even necessarily beneficial for GW themselves. Unless their costs are astronomical -- I can't say I've looked into that side of their business -- it seems like they'd make more money by cutting their prices across the board and making the game for affordable for the average person solely for the amount of new and on the fence customers a measure like that would generate. Not to mention current players who would be more apt to expand into other armies they don't play. A lot of us would probably end up spending more money than we do now if kits were cheaper.

The biggest obstacles for new players are: cost of investment and time/learning curve of the hobby aspect. I think they've made strides with their painting and hobby lines to make painting less intimidating, but apart from some of the kits like Island of Blood, they've done very little to combat the deterrent of how costly the game is.

This is just talk for talk's sake. GW's current pricing isn't to the point where I've considered recasters or other companies.

You sir, are making perfect sense, and are echoing what the gaming community has been saying for years. If you want to realize how stupid GW is, and how their business practice is Fethed up, read the preamble to the latest financial report.

 

[najo]

Hmm, I'm not certain I agree that GW's price hikes are necessary or even necessarily beneficial for GW themselves. Unless their costs are astronomical -- I can't say I've looked into that side of their business -- it seems like they'd make more money by cutting their prices across the board and making the game for affordable for the average person solely for the amount of new and on the fence customers a measure like that would generate. Not to mention current players who would be more apt to expand into other armies they don't play. A lot of us would probably end up spending more money than we do now if kits were cheaper.

The biggest obstacles for new players are: cost of investment and time/learning curve of the hobby aspect. I think they've made strides with their painting and hobby lines to make painting less intimidating, but apart from some of the kits like Island of Blood, they've done very little to combat the deterrent of how costly the game is.

This is just talk for talk's sake. GW's current pricing isn't to the point where I've considered recasters or other companies.

I agree with you. And I'm not saying GW is doing everything right. Lord Marcus makes a good point about Tom Kirby's forward too. But they aren't doing everything wrong either. If I remember correctly, the wood elves were all priced well. I think if more models were priced in that range it be better. We don't know the internal workings though, but hopefully the next CEO can get the pricing to turnover/new blood ratio nailed just right. And in my opinion the models just keep getting better and better. If GW takes good care of their employees then I can handle premium but still reasonable pricing.

 

[lord marcus]

I agree with you. And I'm not saying GW is doing everything right. Lord Marcus makes a good point about Tom Kirby's forward too. But they aren't doing everything wrong either. If I remember correctly, the wood elves were all priced well. I think if more models were priced in that range it be better. We don't know the internal workings though, but hopefully the next CEO can get the pricing to turnover/new blood ratio nailed just right. And in my opinion the models just keep getting better and better. If GW takes good care of their employees then I can handle premium but still reasonable pricing.

Apparently the wages are terrible. Multiple testaments by multiple ex-employee's are on dakkadakka

 

[najo]

Apparently the wages are terrible. Multiple testaments by multiple ex-employee's are on dakkadakka

Those store guys, studio guys or both?