Question regarding konrad

[xmayhemx88]

I just started playing and I want to make sure this is correct (and if some one can point me in the direction of the FAQ I would look it up myself) but, konrad has red fury which allows him extra attacks for each wound caused. His weapon makes every wound he inflicts 2. So my question is when he causes a wound does he get more red fury attacks because of his sword of waldenhof?

(example: konrad is rolling to attack and causes all 3 hits, rolls to wound and causes 2. Does he get +4 red fury attacks after he rolls to wound? or just 2?)

 

[Count Darvaleth]

Depends. If he just kills two, average, 1-wound troops (eg: 2 skeletons) he has only caused two wounds-worth of damage. The excess wounds don't carry over onto another model, so Red Fury doesn't either.

However, let's say he's fighting ogres or a dragon, then yes; if the model has enough wounds that it can take four wounds from Konrad, then Konrad (if he causes all those 4 wounds) will gain an extra 4 attacks.

 

[mindninja]

It seems to me that Konrad only gets 1 extra attack for each unsaved wound caused, even if his weapon causes multiple wounds...hear me out...

On page 45 of the 8th edition rulebook it states that:

"some war machines, spells and magic weapons are so destructive that if a model suffers an unsaved wound from them, the victim doesn't only lose 1 wound, but 2 wounds..."

This leads me to believe that since a save is only taken for the initial wound, this is the only wound that counts as being "unsaved". The additional wound caused by the magic weapon only comes into effect after the save has been rolled. Since red fury states that for each "unsaved" wound caused the vampire gets an extra attack, this leads me to believe that Konrad would only get 1 extra attack for each unsaved wound caused, regardless of the fact that his weapon causes multiple wounds.

However, be sure to note that the attacks Konrad gets from red fury still can cause multiple wounds!

 

[mindninja]

However, let's say he's fighting ogres or a dragon, then yes; if the model has enough wounds that it can take four wounds from Konrad, then Konrad (if he causes all those 4 wounds) will gain an extra 4 attacks.

I don't think this is true because only the first wound caused counts as being unsaved, the additional wound caused by the weapon doesn't benefit from red fury becomes it comes into effect after saves, it does not count as an unsaved wound because there was no chance for it to be saved.

 

[Count Darvaleth]

No, no. What stops these extra wounds from counting as wounds? Nothing, in short. This combo also works for using frostblade and red fury against ogres.

 

[xmayhemx88]

so does it say anything about this in the FAQ?

 

[mindninja]

I think the ambiguity here lies in the distinction that games workshop makes between unsaved wounds and extra added wounds.

 

[Trevy the Great]

[mod]Moved to Laws of the Night[/mod]

 

[Cobra7]

I am 100% sure that the reason GW uses the term unsaved wounds is because they mean every wound done as opposed to every wound that was saved.

It's a well known that Frostblade stacks with Red Fury, Konrad should not be otherwise.

Think about it like this, Konrad gets 4 hits, and 2 wounds on a monster (W4), your opponent does whatever saves he has and failed. It does a total of 4 wounds and kills the monster. We all agree on this so far. Now out of those 4 wounds to that monster, how many did your opponent not stop/save?

 

[Lord Fear]

If a wound was not saved in any manner, then by definition it is "unsaved". Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one!

 

[bored1]

I think the ambiguity here lies in the distinction that games workshop makes between unsaved wounds and extra added wounds.

Where is this distinction you speak of? In the quote you posted, it speaks of unsaved wounds multiplying, but it in no way implies that the additional wounds are "saved". Since a save is binary, either you save or you don't, it seems that any wound that isn't one is the other.

To provide a hypothetical example, let's say you take a high strength wound that ignores your armor save from a magic weapon that doesn't allow ward saves or regen. Is that a "saved" or "unsaved" wound? The rules don't really allow for another possibility as far as I can tell.

 

[Bravo_10]

An unsaved wound is a wound taken that counts against your total wounds profile. If you are "wounded" by the Strength-to-Toughness roll, but pass your armor/ward/regeneration save, then the wound is saved. If you don't pass it, or if it ignored, then the wound is not saved. If that single unsaved wound is multiplied into two wounds, then they're both counted as unsaved. It's as simple as that.

And with regards to Konrad, he definitely gets an extra attack for EACH UNSAVED WOUND CAUSED. Where I think the grey area exists is against Ogres. They usually have 3 wounds on their profile. So, let's say that he lands and wounds with 4 attacks. That means he's inflicted 8 wounds. BUT...do the wounds carry over between ogres, or does he only get credit for 6 wounds (because in reality he would wind up having to attack each ogre twice, wasting the extra wound).

Does that question make sense? Or should I restate?

 

[Cobra7]

An unsaved wound is a wound taken that counts against your total wounds profile. If you are "wounded" by the Strength-to-Toughness roll, but pass your armor/ward/regeneration save, then the wound is saved. If you don't pass it, or if it ignored, then the wound is not saved. If that single unsaved wound is multiplied into two wounds, then they're both counted as unsaved. It's as simple as that.

And with regards to Konrad, he definitely gets an extra attack for EACH UNSAVED WOUND CAUSED. Where I think the grey area exists is against Ogres. They usually have 3 wounds on their profile. So, let's say that he lands and wounds with 4 attacks. That means he's inflicted 8 wounds. BUT...do the wounds carry over between ogres, or does he only get credit for 6 wounds (because in reality he would wind up having to attack each ogre twice, wasting the extra wound).

Does that question make sense? Or should I restate?

Yes it does (to me) and very good question. This is beyond me but I'd love to know the answer as well.

 

[Forge]

An unsaved wound is a wound taken that counts against your total wounds profile. If you are "wounded" by the Strength-to-Toughness roll, but pass your armor/ward/regeneration save, then the wound is saved. If you don't pass it, or if it ignored, then the wound is not saved. If that single unsaved wound is multiplied into two wounds, then they're both counted as unsaved. It's as simple as that.

And with regards to Konrad, he definitely gets an extra attack for EACH UNSAVED WOUND CAUSED. Where I think the grey area exists is against Ogres. They usually have 3 wounds on their profile. So, let's say that he lands and wounds with 4 attacks. That means he's inflicted 8 wounds. BUT...do the wounds carry over between ogres, or does he only get credit for 6 wounds (because in reality he would wind up having to attack each ogre twice, wasting the extra wound).

Does that question make sense? Or should I restate?

Yes it does (to me) and very good question. This is beyond me but I'd love to know the answer as well.

your dealing with multiple wound models that are part of a UNIT, you attack the unit not the individual ogre, it would do all 8 wounds killing 2 ogres and one with 2 wounds and you would get 8 red fury attacks which also multiply.

 

[bored1]

p. 45 should answer that question.