Recreating the Red Duke

[Vallasch]

Now, this was a character that didn't interest me that much. He was a bit before my time and i've not read the book yet. However i am aware he's very popular here and many are wishing he was in the new book. The Red Duke has never been in an army book to my knowledge (at least not a VC one), but instead he was from the Campaign pack, Circle of Blood.

When i started playing it was the time of 2nd edition 40k and by the time i started playing fantasy, the Undead army book had mysteriously vanished although the models were still for sale. Then later i was born to darkness in the form of VC.

Anyway i don't know if anyone here still has the old Circle of Blood book. But interestingly while i was rummaging on google, i found someone had uploaded it to scribdb.com. Not sure about posting a direct link as i don't think it's legal. But if you cram, "warhammer circle of blood" into google it'll be the 4th one down.

At the cost of 230 slaves, he came with a barded skeletal steed, the Armour of Blood (heavy armour that doesn't hinder magic) and the old Blade of Leaping Gold. A common magic item that gave +3 attacks. Which conveniantly has a new iteration in 8th edition.

Over a Vampi Lord today he had, +1 WS, +1BS, +2S, +1T, +1W, +2I, -1A

So here's the question. How would you modernise him an an acceptable way for 8th?

 

[Kaptain Von]

Well, his stats were just the norm for Vampire Lords at the time, so I'd probably use that as a base. The original was a level 3 wizard with 2 spells (oh, fourth edition Undead book, you wacky beast), so let's at least upgrade ours to level 2.

His signature magic items were the Blade of Leaping Gold, +3 attacks, let's leave that in, and the Armour of Blood, a suit of heavy armour that one could wear while casting spells, which is nothing special any more.

And that's it.

Yawn.

So, let's work on Bretonnianing him up a bit.

Dread Knight for starters. Heroic Killing Blow is quite Bretonnian, so how about Master Strike? He's quite the aristocrat, so Aura of Dark Majesty goes in too. There'd be room for Red Fury on a conventional Vampire, and he did go completely mad in the tomb, but that strikes me as a bit overpowered with eight attacks on the statline, so let's put that on hold for a moment and consider making some stuff up.

At the moment, he doesn't have a Ward Save, which sucks. In the original campaign pack he had a crimson jewel that regenerated his essence over time... hmm. I'm going to give him a revised version of the Gem of Blood from the old book, with a couple of tweaks.

The Gem of Blood - this relic of ancient Lahmia is a powerful talisman that wards against mortal wounds. When the bearer would be removed as a casualty after losing his last wound, roll a d6. On a 2 or more, the bearer survives with a single wound (even against Killing Blows, Multiple Wounds etc.) and a single Killing Blow is rebounded onto the model that caused the wound. One Use Only.

That's a bit better. Eight attacks or one Heroic Killing Blow at WS9, 3+ armour save (decent), no conventional ward save but a nasty kick in the teeth for any character that tries to finish him off, competent but unspectacular spellcaster...

... let's say he Hates Bretonnian Knights and Damsels and call it a day?

 

[Sweeney Todd]

Trouble is, all those magic items contradict the 6ed fluff IIRC that Blood Dragons do not use magic items because they want to show that they win by skill and not because of some magic trinket. If you want to take that into account, then we could simply create some unique non-magical stuff to substitute for the lost magic items.

Other than that, I think we can agree on Red Fury and Dread Knight. Aura of Dark Majesty could possibly be substituted by Fear Incarnate. I'm more in favor of giving him Heroic Killing Blow instead of Master Strike because Master Strike strikes me as pretty useless(you swap ALL of your attacks). And he would Hate Bretonnians, and all Bretonnians would gain Hatred against him.

 

[Count Darvaleth]

You could go about using the Vampire Lord entry for getting him to be completely legal. Or, you could go down the road of fully home-brewing him. I'd recommend the latter.

Also, a way to avoid using magic items with Blood Dragons without making them weak is to lump special rules on them. Substitute 30 slaves-worth of a sword giving +3A into a special rule "Martial Perfection" or the like, giving him +3A (amongst other little goodies that you chuck in there for additional points on his total).

I'd see him having at least Killing Blow (if not Heroic) as well as Red Fury, ASF, re-rolling all misses every round, having 7 attacks total, as well as S6, and WS9. Then make him a Level 1 or 0 wizard (after all Blood Dragons ain't big on magic!), stick some armour on him, and you're about there.

EDIT: An interesting quirk could be that such us the Red Duke's disgust at magic, that against Ethereal foes his attacks count as magical, but he cannot gain any bonus attacks from Red Fury, and loses Killing Blow; such is his frustration at being unable to harm his opponents, that he has taken to slashing so furiously with his sword that he disperses their essence merely by swatting his blade through the air! (Imagine him screaming and cursing as he essentially fans the ethereals away with his sword...!)

 

[Zanos]

In his book, The Red Duke didn't seem so against magic. In fact, he just seemed to get pissed when a chaos witch wouldn't bend to his necromancy.

 

[Sanai]

One thing you guys are forgetting. The Red Dukes needs to have the stupidity rule or some variation of it.

 

[Sweeney Todd]

One thing you guys are forgetting. The Red Dukes needs to have the stupidity rule or some variation of it.

Why's that?

 

[Kaptain Von]

One thing you guys are forgetting. The Red Dukes needs to have the stupidity rule or some variation of it.

Why's that?

Something to do with the new novel, I'd imagine.

 

[Sanai]

The Red Duke after he spent all those hundreds of years entombed made him lose his sanity completely. When he was released, he swung between being a good general at some moments, and thinking he was still fighting his old battles in other moments, even almost killing his necromancer for "daring to ride a horse like his betters", and even leading his army off in the wrong direction to refight old battles. So yeah, stupidity would represent that well. When he passes the roll, he is sane, when he fails, he loses track of where he is and thinks the enemy is the king of bretonia and that he is still the duke of aquitane.

 

[El Syf]

Although by the end of the book he would seem to overcome this.(when he goes into Duke Galand's tomb and the last suprise) Also it was a "crimson jewl" that saved him from death first time round so he's not too anti a bit of magic; he raises skegs zombiez and turns a witch into a banshee! level 2 at least. It also makes him out to be the best swordsman (before being a vamp) bretonia had ever seen, so you could go to town on that. And we know who sired him now, so just overpower him and be done with it!

 

[Marius]

Having not read the book as yet (going to have to correct that methinks!), if you want to add a stupidity rule & make him a duelist, perhaps something along the lines of Konrad's OBsoaB rule & the ability to wield an additional hand weapon in addition to his magic one? Or you could give him something like a 4+ parry save to show another aspect of his duelist skills?

 

[thanathos 71]

Now, this was a character that didn't interest me that much. He was a bit before my time and i've not read the book yet. However i am aware he's very popular here and many are wishing he was in the new book. The Red Duke has never been in an army book to my knowledge (at least not a VC one), but instead he was from the Campaign pack, Circle of Blood.

When i started playing it was the time of 2nd edition 40k and by the time i started playing fantasy, the Undead army book had mysteriously vanished although the models were still for sale. Then later i was born to darkness in the form of VC.

Anyway i don't know if anyone here still has the old Circle of Blood book. But interestingly while i was rummaging on google, i found someone had uploaded it to scribdb.com. Not sure about posting a direct link as i don't think it's legal. But if you cram, "warhammer circle of blood" into google it'll be the 4th one down.

At the cost of 230 slaves, he came with a barded skeletal steed, the Armour of Blood (heavy armour that doesn't hinder magic) and the old Blade of Leaping Gold. A common magic item that gave +3 attacks. Which conveniantly has a new iteration in 8th edition.

Over a Vampi Lord today he had, +1 WS, +1BS, +2S, +1T, +1W, +2I, -1A

So here's the question. How would you modernise him an an acceptable way for 8th?

How about giving him a fairly normal wampire lord build; lvl 3,Red fury, quick blood ,fear incarnate ,mounted on s hellsteed- equipt with Sword of bloodshed,seed of rebirth and Glittering scales
553 p.ca
special rules: Stupidity(unsure which century he is in; Novel.)
terror* (when facing Bretonians- they gain Hatred against him).
1 unit of Black Knigth's in his army gain the Vanguard rule

 

[Vampire Ron]

An interesting quirk could be that such us the Red Duke's disgust at magic, that against Ethereal foes his attacks count as magical, but he cannot gain any bonus attacks from Red Fury, and loses Killing Blow; such is his frustration at being unable to harm his opponents, that he has taken to slashing so furiously with his sword that he disperses their essence merely by swatting his blade through the air! (Imagine him screaming and cursing as he essentially fans the ethereals away with his sword...!)

This made me laugh. :') I really like the rules on him though, and being the best swordsman Bretonnia had ever seen, then becoming a vampire, surely that warrants an epic weapon skill and some awesome special rules?