Resurrecting the horde

[beno]

Its been a long, long time - even for an immortal vampire - since I collected what was, in days of yore, the Undead army. I've recently had designs of drenching the world in a tide of blood so figured that the first place to start would be with some ideas about where to start, tactically, with a VC army. Then I'll work up a list and then think about building the models etc etc.

So my question is twofold I guess. First, I have zero experience of 8th ed thus far (not had a chance to play for quite a while!). What kinds of tactics are useful for VC these days beyond the obvious inclusion of something like a big horde sized unit (or at least approaching) of zombies. Any ideas and thoughts would be helpful so far - I've read through a bunch of topic and threads but of course it gets more confusing the more I read!

Second, I have a corpse cart sitting in its box and I can't decide whether to chop it up into warshrine, for my chaos army, now... or save it for a VC army build later (though I can always get another). In fact, I'm not even sure what a corspe cart does

 

[Valvatorez]

A corpse cart is, in my opinion, a decent and quite durable chariot. It can also be a mount for a necromancer, and can be upgraded to either hinder your opponents magic, or allow you to re-roll the dice when your raising your troops from the dead (again!). Finally if an augment spell affects it, such as our most used spells, it triggers a small aoe spell of our own that gives your nearby units asf for the turn.
I never leave my crypt without one. It's incredibly useful as a support unit, and a well timed charge can swing a combat in your favour.

 

[Viscount Nostrus]

ASF, not ASL.

 

[Guidebot]

Well, I'm not sure how things were in your day, but crumbling (following the death of your general) has changed a bit. It's no longer so big of a deal if you lose your general; if you've another caster with vampire spells then he can take over to stop crumbling (limiting you to one turn of crumbling). It's worth thinking about your general/ magic phase/ magical choices before you get too settled into the rest of the army, since it's so crucial.

The lore of vampirse itself has changed too; no longer can you spam IoN with the same caster for example. IoN has become a little more potent in some ways, and it's possible to raise a lot of models now, particularly zombies.

Our infantry core choices are all decent in their own way and form a nice scale from pants but numerous to relatively potent but expensive, with dire wolves back in core (and with slavering charge again) too.

Beyond that, things are probably somewhat similar to what you remember. Our heroes are above par and make strong fighters/ leaders while our special and rare choices bring a great roster of specialists, support and elite units. Everything in the army book can work, which is wonderful, so there are no 'dud' choices like you might find in other army books (e.g. tomb kings). This means it's down to you and what kind of army you want; a pretty great place to be as gamer!

As for a more general orientation on 8th ed, well, that could take some time. Most of the game is different now to varying degrees, but especially:
-The magic phase: Winds of magic (then spell lores and signature spells, miscasts and IF are very different too)
-Changes to combat: Step up, steadfast

If you can, pick up a copy of the mini-rulebook that comes in the island of blood starter set; you can get them on ebay for a good price.

 

[Valvatorez]

Edited my post. Damn iPhone auto correct!

 

[beno]

Cool, this is good stuff, appreciated and thanks.

Yeah, crumbling was a bit of a nightmare back in the 3e days (when I played Undead - ancient history man!) many a battle did I lose from gung-ho charges with Arkhan's chariot into the nearest giant/fanatic hiding goblins or dwarf canon LOS!

Liking the idea of raising troops too. If it really is as powerful as it sounds then I think that's the way I might go. Loads of zombies stinking the place out sounds like my kind of army, hahaha! So a couple of corpse pits to wear the foe down and then what... guess I need some fliers or something fast to jump about and shred stuff - varghulf's any good at that or some horse guys, or maybe go with some ghostly stuff - ahhh so many options?

I'm feeling the pureblood so vampires - two level ones and a level three viable at 2k pts? Guess I want some sort of BSB and hero types as well though. The corpse cart sounds great - I'm gonna get on that asap

I've read through the 8ed rulebook but it takes gaming to learn/understand it and I just haven't got round to it yet! Was playing as Wood Elves in 7e so yeah, no compelling desire to get served up every battle!

 

[kazar]

I always run 2 massive blocks of zombies in my 2k list.

They are usually 80 strong with a Standard.

They are most impressive tar-pits now that they have a Str and Toughness of 3. I held up Gorbad and a unit of boarboy biguns for the entire game. Forcing Gorbad to kill 3 to 5 zombies a turn instead of hunting down your heros/lords is quite justifying fot you and frustrating for them.

 

[ZARATHOS]

it worth considering a solid battleline with grave guard and blood knights in combination with vanhels danse macabre,rigor mortis (corpse cart) and hellish vigour stick heinrich kemmler and krell lord of undeath along with your grave guard and you got quite a force what do you think?

 

[Valvatorez]

Grave guard, though not our only viable build option anymore, are a must have I think. They are awesome for their points and can take on most foes.
Your 3 vamp idea could work, but to get a level 3 you'll need a vampire lord that could end up costing a quarter of your points once gear and powers are factored in, and you'd probably want him away from combat if he's magic oriented.
For the flier/fast bit, Varghulf's are pretty good for their points in my opinion, a fast monster with decent survivability and hitting power. Consider a unit of Vargheists for this role as well. They're harder to use, and quite fragile but pack one hell of a punch, and you can have a unit of 3 for less than 150 points.

At 2k I'd go with the large blocks of zombies for core, possibly a small skelly bunker to absorb shooting for any characters you want kept out of the fighting.
In your special, you can't go wrong with grave guard with a corpse cart supporting. Upgrade it with a lodestone and you can reliably keep your troops at a healthy level. Single spirit hosts are amazing for holding up things without magic attacks, such as most large monsters. And vargheist or black knights for your fast hammer unit.
As for rare, you could have a pair of varghulf, which I find works well. It's also worth considering a terrorgheist though they have to be played right as they're quite fragile. The death shriek is rather powerful.
Remember, these are just my opinions. If I'm honest the most important things to me are having fun, and being able to look at my armies and say "yep, they look awesome"!
Otherwise I find it stops being a game and starts becoming work!

 

[beno]

All points noted, think I have something of a list forming so thanks to all involved.I'll see what I can come up with as a list and take it over to the appropriate places for assassination by the veterans!

As it stands though the general idea will be as follows - (at least) two big chunks of dead meat zombies with a block of grave guard to stiffen the line, all supported by the corpse cart and casters. I always wanted Krell cos he sounded awesome and he's a good cc character, and Kemmler is a legend so I'll definitely consider him too. Would this leave room for some low level vampire action as additional crumble limitation?

In the marauding nightmare role I'll draft in the dual Varghulf combo, for now, evil bats are definitely cool! Blood knights are a possibility, but cost will dictate that I think - otherwise it'll be some black knights. Good thing is if I get them I can always proxy them as blood knights if I do a good conversion/paint job with them and wanna play in bigger battles. Skelly bunker is a possibility, it depends what's gonna look good though - as far as dead stuff can look good!

Overall tactics would be right up my street - a wave of zombies that just drags the battle into a stalemate in the middle, but the more you hack at them more keep raising up from the ground! Varghulf's tearing it up down the backline suppressing any threats that the other troops can't reach and some nasty cavalry to knock them flat on their faces at the climax of the battle. Shooting don't bother me too much cos its zombies and I'm a deranged vampire, cc won't bother me cos I've got some nasty tricks and characters up my sleeve and magic shouldn't cause issue me as long as I can fit three casters in there... I guess I can live without a lord if I can squeeze three in. Sound like a plan?