Reworking the General

[Belladamma Voltaire]

As is quite clear, when our General dies, it becomes a bit of an amusing show as everything suddenly begins to crumble and the Vampire Counts are left with nothing but dust. The Tomb Kings, on the other hand, do not suffer as badly with this due to the subtle difference between their summoner (the Hierophant) and their General (The tomb King/Prince). Is there a way this could be fixed?

The suggestion was made that if the general dies, then the next most powerful character should be able to take over the army on some sort of Leadership roll. For example, if someone took down your general, but there was a necromancer left alive, he would be able to control the army instead on a successful Leadership test meaning the army does not automatically crumble.

Now, would this seem like a viable solution or is there some other way of trying to reduce the problem we have with the loss of the general?

 

[Avaris]

The issue is that the general is the guy who raised the army in the first place, so the other characters don't have any link to them. That said, there is no reason why a necromancer would be unable to bind a unit or two. Perhaps rather than merely assigning a new general, each wizard would be able to attempt to control a number of units equal to his magic level, possibly via a ld test as you said.

 

[Sibbechai]

Nice idea!
And it makes sense too (so I'm not sure whether GW will change it.. ).
A Necro would at least be able to the zombies around him stand.. and those he raised himself!
It's pretty stupid that when you have 2 Vampire Counts, for example, both as powerful as the other, and one is called 'general' and the other is a normal character, the other one doesn't have the power to maintain part of the army...

 

[Wolf Fang]

Well, it's hard enough to kill the general, in order to make the army crumble, but it does make sense that units that have a char in them shouldn't crumble once the general dies.
Don't change the rule though.

Cheers, Wolfie

 

[kebabi]

That's actually something.
Because, ya know, ya take Leadership tests, so a unit joined by a necro gets a Leadership of 7, instead of the 2-3 of skellys/zombies. Which could be a way of representing the way a Necro manages to hold at least some of the undead horrids around him still walking. Of course, ya gotta agree that wouldn't just go like that to take over the channeling of magic with all confusement and chaos of a battlefield. Even if you're a really cool vampire

 

[Master Vampire]

That's actually something.
Because, ya know, ya take Leadership tests, so a unit joined by a necro gets a Leadership of 7, instead of the 2-3 of skellys/zombies. Which could be a way of representing the way a Necro manages to hold at least some of the undead horrids around him still walking. Of course, ya gotta agree that wouldn't just go like that to take over the channeling of magic with all confusement and chaos of a battlefield. Even if you're a really cool vampire

This is probably the most likely thing to happen if GW decides to change it. Mainly because I think GW still holds on to the 'simplifying of the rules', which probably was the T7 for Ethereals experiment too (yes I believe the posters).

 

[Lord Firmshaft]

The other difference between us and the tk is while yes the death of their general doesnt crumble their army, theri general is weaker than ous so doesnt do as much killing compared to a vamp lord and the crumble target is very weak in their army.

So our army is more eggs in one basket (harder to kill and kills more) they can afford to risk sending their general in with out that fear where we have to weigh in the risks

 

[Lord Fear]

I think cutting down on the number of crumble tests would be a good start- just restrict it to the start of every turn. As it happens, the most likely time for your General to die is in your opponent's combat phase (After a charge), and having to take two leadership tests in a row for every unit is really harsh.

 

[Wolf Fang]

But then again, being unbreakable is really harsh as well. If you wouldn't crumble, then VC'd be invincible because of the fact that they lose 4-5 zombies per unit, per turn and can, on average add 6-8 per turn.
At least now other armies have a chance at smashing a way through the zombie blocks.

Cheers, Wolfie

 

[Doc]

I agree.

The vampires are fantastic opponents, and the fact that it must remain "alive" (one-pieced, say) just requires additionnal strategy that Khemri players do not need. I think its quite fair and fluffy as well: TK are a skeleton army, while we run an undead horde, and thus, its normal that it gets more chaotic when the ruler is out.

 

[Danceman]

Now now, this is confusing. Addition tactics TK dont need? Most of the time they have a hero level wizard which keep their army together, thus have to take care of this bag of bones as there are few units that will have problems killing it(main danger would be fast cav, flyers and even shooting). While they got their general which can ride off without risking their army they have further rules which balance things out... like no march move, ever.

Back on topic. No I do not think we should get easier off. We are already a strong and reliable army, there is no reason why we shouldnt have to have some kind of risk along the way.

 

[The Dead of Night]

I have to say I think it already is represented to an extent. As people have said the ld of the necro's lets them hold their own unit. But also, in the vampire trillogy when the vamp dies the army crumbled instantly (or close to it). Maybe the fact they crumble slowly is the necros trying to hold on?

Of course the fact a wight lord can hold on to a unit better than a necro is a bit odd... Perhaps units led by a necro should get a bonus to crumble test? similar to the bonus for BSB?

The bit I don't like is that new units created by the necros are then immediatly bound to the vamp. Yet when the vamp dies, they aren't imediatly swapped back. Perhaps new units should be bound to their creator?

 

[Lord Fear]

to clarify

But then again, being unbreakable is really harsh as well. If you wouldn't crumble, then VC'd be invincible because of the fact that they lose 4-5 zombies per unit, per turn and can, on average add 6-8 per turn.
At least now other armies have a chance at smashing a way through the zombie blocks.

I'm not saying remove them entirely, but simply removing the crumble test at the end of the phase your Vampire has died would be enough.