Scream-Cheese, 2500 Points

[TobiasRathein]

I've been feeling the itch to play a scream list for quite some time; this past weekend I finally got the chance to. I played a few games with it to great success.

2495
Lords - 615
Strigoi Ghoul King - 415
Skabscrath, Dragonbane Gem, Red Fury, Aura of Dark Majesty
Master Necromancer - 200
Level 4, Lore of Death

Heroes - 565
Necromancer
Dispell Scroll, Lore of Death
5 Banshees

Core - 730
30 Ghouls w/ Ghast
30 Ghouls
20 Zombies
20 Zombies

Rare - xxx
Terrorgheist
Terrorgheist

Special - xxx
Spirit Host
Spirit Host
Spirit Host


I've heard people say that Vampire Counts don't have any shooting pretty frequently. After playtesting with this list I've discovered that statement couldn't be more wrong. Not only do we have shooting, but we have some of the best shooting available. Sure, the range is very limited (only 8") but it's LD based and you can effectively shoot/scream into combats.

The loadout on the SGK can be changed a bit. He doesn't actually need Red Fury, but it's nice to have a little extra backup in case you don't outright scream to death whatever you're fighting. The extra wounds he can generate will be very helpful. If I drop red fury I can pick up unit of wolves or give the Master Necromancer a ward save.

The plan with this list is very straightforward. Hunt down chaff with spirit hosts (keep one spirit host back to protect your Master Necromancer) and avoid un-necessary combats as often as possible. Get the SGK's ghoul unit into combat with a horde, hit it with Doom and Darkness, and scream it to death before it can do anything. If this is successful the best LD a unit can have is 6. If you manage to scream at this unit with everything you've got you'll average 33 wounds before the combat occurs, and the lower the unit's LD the higher that count goes. The SGK will mop up the rest.

My concerns with this list:
- Any army that can field ranged magic attacks outside of spells. Looking mostly at Skaven here, as they can field an abundance of magical cannons and warmachines.
- Lack of deployment drops. Most of the units are redundant, so placing characters shouldn't be much of an issue. Still, with only 10 drops (including characters), matchups could become an issue.

What do you guys think?

 

[Ja_147]

Get that ghoul king on a terrorguist double scream and 3 terrorguists yay

 

[Nagorian]

Its a fun list, but if he does go for the 3rd gheist he can't take the master necro and will have problems getting doom and darkness.
Getting a level 2 necro with Death will give him a chance to get it, but its not as reliable.

So the question would be, -3 LD to boost the screams allready in effect, or add another scream...

If you REALLY want to go scream heavy you can even add some banshee's in your Hero selection and put them in your CG as well

Definitly a nice approach, but you're totally dependant on the screams, nothing else will do real damage to an opponent

 

[Velmates]

He already has 5 banshees as heroes. The problem with Doom and Darkness is that your opponent will know what you're list is up to and will shut it down if possible. Not that the screams aren't useful then, I just wouldn't rely on the spell.

 

[Nagorian]

He already has 5 banshees as heroes. The problem with Doom and Darkness is that your opponent will know what you're list is up to and will shut it down if possible. Not that the screams aren't useful then, I just wouldn't rely on the spell.

Wow, totally missed the banshees!

Yes, the enemy will know, but will also have to decide on wether to shut down doom and darkness or nehek/vanhels.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Get a Lvl1 Heavens Vampire in here also for the sig (dropp the baby).

 

[Yorga]

He already has 5 banshees as heroes. The problem with Doom and Darkness is that your opponent will know what you're list is up to and will shut it down if possible. Not that the screams aren't useful then, I just wouldn't rely on the spell.

Wow, totally missed the banshees!

Yes, the enemy will know, but will also have to decide on wether to shut down doom and darkness or nehek/vanhels.

The choice will more likely be Doom and Darkness or Purple Sun.

 

[Drakhaol Von Carstein]

what about the cursed book for the possibility of a second doom and darkness,

 

[TobiasRathein]

Excellent idea, Johnny. I've never found a use for Lore of Heavens; I didn't even realize the signature spell gives -1 leadership. Excellent idea.

This list pretty much outright ignores anything from lore of vampires in favor of death spells. Even if I don't cast Doom and Darkness, the combined screams will average 17 wounds to a unit with LD8. The SGK will also cause several wounds to whatever I am fighting -- this should result in far fewer wounds taken to his ghoul unit. If I do manage to cast Doom and Darkness, entire hordes will be deleted.

 

[TobiasRathein]

I really liked Johnny's idea of bringing a vampire hero with lore of heavens. Unfortunately this meant that I had to lose a banshee, but the extra hitting power in combat and the signature spell from heavens is worth the change, I think.

Here's the updated list.


2499
Lords - 615
Strigoi Ghoul King - 415
Skabscrath, Dragonbane Gem, Red Fury, Aura of Dark Majesty
Master Necromancer - 200
Level 4, Lore of Death

Heroes - 563
Vampire
Forbidden Lore (Heavens), Dispel Scroll, Glittering Scales, Extra Hand Weapon
4 Banshees

Core - 736
30 Ghouls w/ Ghast
30 Ghouls
22 Zombies
20 Zombies

Rare - xxx
Terrorgheist
Terrorgheist

Special - xxx
Spirit Host
Spirit Host
Spirit Host

 

[Yorga]

OK. Here's the issue I see. Your SGK is in a unit ghouls that are horded up. You are slow and you have a large frontage. Two important things about relying on screams. 1) No stand and shoot for you. 2) You cannot scream in your opponent's shooting phase. So what happens if he charges that large horde with some real hard hitters. You don't have decent ward save. I see a dead vampire and your army crumbling. :grave:

Now if you had more redirectors like a couple units of wolves then maybe this scenario would not come to pass.

 

[Yorga]

(continued from above)

Drop the second unit of ghouls and buy wolves (like 3 or 4 units) and add zombies. With only one level 1 lore of Vampire you will not be replenishing your troops.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

I find in screamer lists Skeleton busses with +1 movement are king.. Cram everyone in there and just march march scream.

 

[TobiasRathein]

I never said my ghouls are in hordes.

Both of them are 5 wide, 6 deep. The units are redundant for a reason -- when I deploy my characters I can ensure the best possible match-up from the get-go. Without the second unit of ghouls I lose the ability to hold units up while I scream my enemy into oblivion.

Edit:

I have considered bringing skeletons, Johnny. Obviously ghouls lose value when they're not in horde formation. I'll be honest here, though. I have my skeletons sitting in a display case in my bedroom; I honestly just don't feel like putting them into my carrying cases. That said, skeletons would be more efficient in this type of list... Maybe I'll just proxy them!

 

[TobiasRathein]

Realizing that my unwillingness to carry my skeletons around has resulted in my scream list being less efficient than it should be, I'm re-writing it again. (As an aside: I own about 120 skeletons, 80 ghouls, and 90 zombies. Can you guess which two of those three I bring with me to games?)

Here goes!

2499
Lords - 615
Strigoi Ghoul King - 415
Skabscrath, Dragonbane Gem, Red Fury, Aura of Dark Majesty
Master Necromancer - 200
Level 4, Lore of Death

Heroes - 588
Vampire
Forbidden Lore (Heavens), Fear Incarnate, Dispel Scroll, Glittering Scales, Extra Hand Weapon
4 Banshees

Core - 710
42 Skeletons
Full Command, Screaming Banner
40 Skeletons
Full Command, Banner of Swiftness
20 Zombies
20 Zombies
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves

Rare - xxx
Terrorgheist
Terrorgheist

Special - xxx
Spirit Host
Spirit Host
Spirit Host

Given that the scream list focuses so much on reducing leadership, I figured I'd toss the screaming banner onto one of the skeleton units. The two vampires preferably go here as they'll be hit on 5s and 6s, respectively. This will work well in case the screams don't wipe out their target outright.

 

[Yorga]

I really like the improvement and might try that list out myself.

 

[TobiasRathein]

Yeah, I am eager to give it a go. I hate that I've got to wait until the weekend to get some games in with it!

 

[TobiasRathein]

No other ideas or comments?

 

[Nagorian]

I'm at work so I can't check my facts, but can you have two units of skeletons and a banner on each? Just on army builder right now and it says no...

On a second note, you'll have a very cramped march bubble, have you considered making the zombies into one big unit? Its less drops, but you'll be able to not only move forward more consistently, but it'll be easier to hit everything with Neheks as well.

Otherwise a fun list, I'd love to see some batreps

 

[Drakhaol Von Carstein]

You are correct about one unit of skellies taking a magic standard.

 

[TobiasRathein]

Yeah, you guys are right. I literally never use skeletons. Drop the banner of swiftness for more skeletons.

 

[Ether Dude]

I'd try combining the spirit hosts into a singe unit of 3. As it stands, they are durable road blocks to things like small knight units, hydras and mournfangs. However, you already have 4 individual units that can do that. In addition, you don't really have anything that will hold up hordes; screams are really bad against 40 dwarfs, even if you have 7 of them. Your zombies will not hold up that well either, so you really are relying on the vampire lord to kill off entire units by himself, which seems like a tall order! You also don't have the magic to try and make zombies into massive busses of doom. However, 3 spirit hosts are a threat to large units, losing by fewer and having more wounds to absorb CR losses.

Otherwise, why not just take bats?

Iceshard is brilliant; increases TG lifespan by 50%. I'm hesitant to endorse 1 vampires caster when your main damage dealing unit has damage output predicated upon its number of wounds. Of course, YMMV. I know Johnny is not down with lore of vampires. :lol:

 

[TobiasRathein]

Completely disagree that I can't hold up a horde. The idea is to throw the skeleton unit with the SGK and the Vampire into combat with an enemy horde. With -1 to LD (and potentialy more) and all the abilities you need to make an effective fearbomb, the units they fight won't be hitting them very often. The idea is to get the charge off, explode the unit with screams, and mop up the rest with combat that is heavily thrown in my favor.

I think it's a terrible idea to deploy the spirit hosts as one unit for a few reasons. One, I lose two very important deployment drops. Two, I lose the ability to use unlimited reforms when I need them and would have to wheel to block units. Three, if my enemy has a magic weapon, they'll melt anyway. I'd rather displace them so that my enemy overruns into the second and third spirit hosts if he kills the first. Between my spirit hosts, zombies, and second unit of skeletons I can absolutely hold off a horde for however many turns I need to scream units to death.

 

[Yorga]

Two, I lose the ability to use unlimited reforms when I need them and would have to wheel to block units.

How do you lose squirmish just because you take more than one?:| They continue to be skirmishers just like any other swarm. You never have to wheel them. P. 84 brb.

 

[TobiasRathein]

Fair enough. I always field them as a single base, so this has never come up. Regardless, the other two points remain valid.