Should GW release Bretonnians as an Empire supplement?

[Derk]

One of the biggest problems with Brets is that you can't really have anything big an monstrous with them

Unless they were linked to a caster, similarly to the way that a Slaughterbrute is linked to a WoC character. I will return to this in a minute.

As Adam_Barrow mentioned earlier, Bretonnian lore is rich in spirits and ghosts - I think an ethereal knight unit(s maybe, mounted and unmounted? Knightly Spirits of some description?) would be great, perhaps lead by the Green Knight. Games workshop have never been afraid to rewrite fluff to fit new models. Necrons were almost totally rewritten and the number of units increased almost double-fold. Brets are slightly more established than Necrons but many concepts talked about here would be easy to fit in.

Now monster wise, how about elementals, spirits linked to a specific caster animating earth and air (Bret magic at the moment) - perhaps with a water element only available to Lady of the lake (unless their own lore is water based??). If the caster dies they are unbound and lose form. I think that these keep within the spirit of Bretonnia.

Overall, I think that GW should be creative enough to make a number of new Bret units, keeping a strong Bretonnian theme and there should be no need to write Brets as an Empire supplement. I believe that the following for Brets is there, and sales of Bret figures are limited because the range and variation of army is limited. Indeed echoing many people thoughts here it would be tragic should this come to pass and we lose the unique Bretonnian identity. We can only wait and watch for GW's plan for Brets to unfold...

 

[Ordo Cruentus]

I never did understand, given the mind-boggling dangerous Old World, why the Humans all wouldn't unite just as a matter of survival. Like, I love Kislev, Araby, Tilea, Bretonnians, etc. Their fluff is so rich, and the art is great, and all that good jazz.

However, counterargument:

-Dark Elves
-Chaos
-Orks
-Skaven
-Lizardmen
-Vampire Counts
-Tomb Kings

Considering how often they have to make alliances just to fight off the latest nasty, it would make perfect sense to me to have a Human Empire, with very independent and powerful provinces. Keep all of the flavor and culture, but easily united in war, and trade.

That way, they could have a Human book, and have army supplements.

Sort of how in 40k, there are standard armies, and supplements for famous IG companies, Space Marine Chapters, SoB Orders, etc.

So yeah, fold them all up, I say.

 

[Skittelz1981]

well its only when Chaos unites that there is a true danger.
And then humans alone cant defeat it, they still need dwarfs and elfs to help out

(btw Tomb kings are neutral and i dont think they pose a threat to humans that much. Araby on the other hand is an enemy of the Empire and Bretonnia so how is uniting with them even possible.)

So uniting Brets and Empire in a single AB is just futile and senseless. Too big a loss imo and i really dont think that GW will kick out Bretonnia. Besides Empire it is the ONLY other human race available so i cant see GW kicking them out in favour of a single mixed AB.
2 great human books that have alot of influence on VC, WE, Dwarf. I cant see how they combine Empire (german, renaissance, steampunkish style) with Bretonnia (french, middleages, feudal knights style)

 

[Ghouly]

what bretonnians need

- new armybook
-more lore's of magic I think Light, Fire, Metal, and Shadow would fit best.
- More peasant unites Like Yeomen on foot as heavy infantry and Herrimaults as skirmishers.
- some upgrades for the trebuchet like cow carcasses for Poisoned attacks and burning pitch for Flaming, and maybe some ballista
- more weapon options for the knights
- things marked by the lady like grail knights, characters with the grail vow, the grail Reliquia should make nearby unites of Undead and Daemons to take a crumble test.
- a peasant hero call him captain of the Yeo or something stats like an empire captain without guns or a crossbow (to good at killing knights).
- Knights need plate armour

what they don't need
-Monstrous creatures Bretonnians kill monsters they don't use them
- ethereal unites Bretonnians are even more superstitious then Imperials NOTHING FAIRY SPOOKY!
- their own magic lore The Empire doesn't have one so bretonnians don't ether.
- more knights the ones they got are perfect

 

[Ginjasy]

Terrible idea, Brettonians are an awesome army and deserve a new book just as much as any other army.

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

To be frank, the reason that Bretonnians don't have a new books is because they didn't NEED one. Brets in 7th were at the top of the power curve. In 8th edition they are solidly mid-tier. They even win tournaments here and there. Try saying that about Tomb Kings, or Wood Elves, or Orcs and Goblins.

All Brets really need is a little bit of variety injected into their range, and a modernization update. Maybe a couple new kits (elite knight kit for grails/questing, character kits for wizards / lord-hero), more reasons to take foot troops (pilgrims, foot knights, etc.), and some rules tweaks (a virtue allowance like vampire/chaos powers, no peg unit restrictions, normal equipment options for BSBs, a general points reduction, etc.). Of all the previous edition books the Brets are the one least in need of an update.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

@PRNoD You think Skaven need an update more than Brets? The Rats' over 9,000 page FAQ notwithstanding.

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

@PRNoD You think Skaven need an update more than Brets? The Rats' over 9,000 page FAQ notwithstanding.

From a competitive standpoint, I think that Brets and Skaven were the best situated of the old books. Beastmen, Wood Elves, Dwarfs, High Elves all needed a new book more than they did.

Dark Elves were a different matter, in that they had a number of pretty broken units and item combinations (unkillable, stubborn Dreadlord anyone?). They needed an update to bring them in line with everyone else. If anything, I'd say that Skaven need an update for the same reason. They were never as good as Dark Elves because sometimes their toys just don't work, but anyone who's been leaf-blowered off the table by the full compliment of filthy skaven toys can tell you that some of that book needs some serious adjustments.

I'd say that Beastmen should get a new book before Bretonnia should, so long as Brets do get that new book eventually. Give them a few different flavours of knights, access to T4 on elite knights and S4 on realms, remove the restriction on peg knights, and adjust points downwards across the board (save Trebs, which should be 110 points at least) and they'd be fine. Oh, and some updated special characters.

Giving them some ethereal knights in rare would be pretty cool too, though. The fluff is full of mention of those. Plus foot knights, more options for peasants and men-at-arms units, and virtues that are like vampire powers. I think that'd be a really fun, competitive army. I don't think they need 1+ saves like many Bret players complain about, save maybe for heroes and lords.

 

[snyggejygge]

Personally I wouldn´t mind if they decided to drop a few of the armies in warhammer, keep them in the fluff, but make maybe 9-10 armies instead, keep them updated, easier to balance & less specialrules.

My suggestion would be:
Good: Humans, Elves, Dwarves
Neutral: Greenskins, Mercenaries, Lizardmen
Evil: Undead, Chaos, Skaven

I know a lot of people don´t agree with this, but a simpler ruleset with less armies would make the game a lot more balanced, maybe it´s just me & my gaming group, but atm we play more Kings of War than Warhammer since we prefer those rules & find them more balanced, however what keeps me into warhammer is the fluff & models, which no other game can compete with.