Sigmars Blood.

[Shareya]

Ah right the book is quite old too. /moves on (No I am not dismissing the lore inside of it. xP)

Edit: I even opened up my 8d vampire counts where Vashanesh is not mentioned at all and the lore inside of it also supports the new books as it states it was Neferata who gave the blood kiss first and made her little group.

 

[Von Calyptra]

Has anybody read the novella yet? I feel like it's a little unclear where we're left with this. First it says that the Empire deus ex machinas a victory, but then it says Manfred completes his diabolical plan. So... spoilery questions:
Did Sylvania succeed in seceding or not? Does the Empire need a new Grand Theogonist?

I popped over to the Empire forum because I was curious what they had to say about the book, and they seem to be ignoring it completely.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

And just note. I am neutral when it comes to him being written out of the lore. I only get annoyed when someone claims the old lore was fully better because it really was not in my opinion. The whole "silly woman got upset due to not getting enough attention." makes my blood boil

I do as well so I understand not getting to read everything at work, don't worry.
I go for the original source book lore, the new novels are a poor mans lore as are normally inconsistent with traits among characters, actions, filled with win buttons and general poetic licensing compared to the rule books, rp's, back ground books etc where its a history more than a work of ever changing fiction.
This tends to change allot as each author has their own take but each background update is based off the prior, not the same with novels.
Thus Nefrattas Husband being wrote out of the Novels all together when he was Nagash's chief general.

Just to note nor was he in the much older Raise of the Empire ( or whatever the books where called) where Nagash does attack and fights the Emperor. To be honest there are more books that state that he was not there then ones that state he was?

I would get it for you myself if I had my books to hand but if it has not already been quoted by Monday when I am in my new house I will get it for you.

Neat! I am sadly going on a work trip tomorrow too and not back before sunday night/monday morning.

Old lore is the default, not always the best written and I am happy for it to be improved on in its writing, just not rewritten.
Thats what winds me up.

in nights dark master warhammer roleplay book vlad is indeed Vashanesh.

On what page is that so bluntly stated?

The quote is thus:-

Almost unnoticed in the annals of history, Vashanesh travelled to the land of Sylvania that he had first seen as a soldier in the Legion of Setep, and calling himself “Prince Vladimir”, he aided Vanhel in crafting an Undead host to defeat the Skaven who threatened the land in the wake of the Black Death. Content with this change he had wrought in history, he returned to hiding for another 700 years.

When he came back, it was under the name Vlad von Carstein.

-Nights Dark Master, Pages 31-32 of Vampires and Empires of Chapter III: Chronicles of the Undying

Think that's pretty damned clear

My Hero.
Can you recall the on from Nefratta as well? "I loved him from the moment I saw him".
No reason behind it.
I just love that damn book.

Ah right the book is quite old too. /moves on (No I am not dismissing the lore inside of it. xP)

Edit: I even opened up my 8d vampire counts where Vashanesh is not mentioned at all and the lore inside of it also supports the new books as it states it was Neferata who gave the blood kiss first and made her little group.

It is a old book but it has likely some of the best VC background to be found anywhere.

On a note again though of old vs new.
The old Lore in the Circle of Blood Campaign was very closely followed when writing the Red Duke book.
As I said, happy to improve, just not change what actually happened.

but no, lets not hijack this thread any more and head over to the other thread before we make folks angry.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Ah right the book is quite old too. /moves on (No I am not dismissing the lore inside of it. xP)

Edit: I even opened up my 8d vampire counts where Vashanesh is not mentioned at all and the lore inside of it also supports the new books as it states it was Neferata who gave the blood kiss first and made her little group.

It was always Neferata who was first, it was however a elixir and not a Blood Kiss at the time, all the original Vampires were created by a potion.
Vashanesh was a officer in the army of the other tomb kings working against her who came to her with warning and demanded the blood kiss, she loved him at first sight much to the anger of Abohrash who had always loved his queen.

Has anybody read the novella yet? I feel like it's a little unclear where we're left with this. First it says that the Empire deus ex machinas a victory, but then it says Manfred completes his diabolical plan. So... spoilery questions:
Did Sylvania succeed in seceding or not? Does the Empire need a new Grand Theogonist?

I popped over to the Empire forum because I was curious what they had to say about the book, and they seem to be ignoring it completely.

Its strange for it looks as if they way they wrote that the victorious warriors leaving Sylvania after the battle and what happened to Volkar happened some time apart for them to have the time to leave the province.
taking this into account its ended right as the Walls have started to come up as the act is taking place but Volkmar where injured is not dead at this point either so they have left it open for another horrible win button or with luck a big campaign, as they have set this over two books maybe the 9th edition box set will see Vampire Counts Vs Empire?



P.S.

Sorry for double post, people were posting quite quickly so i assumed i would be playing catch up.

 

[Shareya]

It was always Neferata who was first, it was however a elixir and not a Blood Kiss at the time, all the original Vampires were created by a potion.
Vashanesh was a officer in the army of the other tomb kings working against her who came to her with warning and demanded the blood kiss, she loved him at first sight much to the anger of Abohrash who had always loved his queen.

" Known oariously as
the Blood Kiss, the Dark Awakening, Turning and the Red
Ascension, this process is be/ieoed to inooloe the exchange
of blood in some fashion. It was Oueen Neferata's blood
that gaoe rise to the first Vampires."

As it was written in the Nagash books and supported by the new Blood of Nagash series ( and of course the latest army book).
They also have Abohrash be more motivated by duty and honor instead of love. What I actually don't like! I would prefer mr Blood Dragon to be in lub with her x) Granted I just can't see it happening after having read all the books.

Also is there not a strong chance that the next book might not be a ''I-Win'' situation? After all Sylvania has been a vampire state unofficial for the longest of time and it is possible that they simply make it a official one now. It will allow them to toss even more enemies against the empire more often and make it grimdarker ( like 40k!). And we all know they really want to do that

 

[Malochai]

in nights dark master warhammer roleplay book vlad is indeed Vashanesh.

On what page is that so bluntly stated?

The quote is thus:-

Almost unnoticed in the annals of history, Vashanesh travelled to the land of Sylvania that he had first seen as a soldier in the Legion of Setep, and calling himself “Prince Vladimir”, he aided Vanhel in crafting an Undead host to defeat the Skaven who threatened the land in the wake of the Black Death. Content with this change he had wrought in history, he returned to hiding for another 700 years.

When he came back, it was under the name Vlad von Carstein.

-Nights Dark Master, Pages 31-32 of Vampires and Empires of Chapter III: Chronicles of the Undying

Think that's pretty damned clear

My Hero.
Can you recall the on from Nefratta as well? "I loved him from the moment I saw him".
No reason behind it.
I just love that damn book.[/quote]

I love this quote - luckily, I'm using the book myself at the moment anyway. It's:-

“I fell in love with him the moment I met him. There was something about him—his eyes, the way he carried himself, as if he were something more than Human— even when he was still mortal.”
-Queen Neferata, on Vashanesh

 

[Shareya]

By the way I find it curious. They basically replaced Vashanesh with Alictaadazazaz DAMN HIS NAME as a love interest. *scratches head* I will try to poke the author a bit.

Also someone needs to make a grand story spoiler post about Simgars blood.

 

[Zephyr]

I'm an old lore lover too DDM. I ignore the newer stuff. So happy I have the old NDM book, why the hell it was published as a softcover though :swear: The Skaven book was hardcover.

I'm still unsure about Sigmar's Blood, (the finale sounds cool) but if there's one thing I cannot stand it's typos in books that I pay a lot of cash for. There are some pretty awful typos in most of GW's books and I heard this one has quite a few. It's a pet peeve of mine and why I will never write my own book as I would shoot myself reading it back.:lol:

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

It was always Neferata who was first, it was however a elixir and not a Blood Kiss at the time, all the original Vampires were created by a potion.
Vashanesh was a officer in the army of the other tomb kings working against her who came to her with warning and demanded the blood kiss, she loved him at first sight much to the anger of Abohrash who had always loved his queen.

" Known oariously as
the Blood Kiss, the Dark Awakening, Turning and the Red
Ascension, this process is be/ieoed to inooloe the exchange
of blood in some fashion. It was Oueen Neferata's blood
that gaoe rise to the first Vampires."

As it was written in the Nagash books and supported by the new Blood of Nagash series ( and of course the latest army book).
They also have Abohrash be more motivated by duty and honor instead of love. What I actually don't like! I would prefer mr Blood Dragon to be in lub with her x) Granted I just can't see it happening after having read all the books.

Also is there not a strong chance that the next book might not be a ''I-Win'' situation? After all Sylvania has been a vampire state unofficial for the longest of time and it is possible that they simply make it a official one now. It will allow them to toss even more enemies against the empire more often and make it grimdarker ( like 40k!). And we all know they really want to do that

That gave rise to the first vampires that were not created by the potion.
A few badly wrote novels does not rewrite a couple dozen books prior.

It would be nice to have a Solid capital but I want to see more back and forth, big names being killed, provinces falling, new ones being founded.
Real timeline progression.

in nights dark master warhammer roleplay book vlad is indeed Vashanesh.

On what page is that so bluntly stated?

The quote is thus:-

Almost unnoticed in the annals of history, Vashanesh travelled to the land of Sylvania that he had first seen as a soldier in the Legion of Setep, and calling himself “Prince Vladimir”, he aided Vanhel in crafting an Undead host to defeat the Skaven who threatened the land in the wake of the Black Death. Content with this change he had wrought in history, he returned to hiding for another 700 years.

When he came back, it was under the name Vlad von Carstein.

-Nights Dark Master, Pages 31-32 of Vampires and Empires of Chapter III: Chronicles of the Undying

Think that's pretty damned clear

My Hero.
Can you recall the on from Nefratta as well? "I loved him from the moment I saw him".
No reason behind it.
I just love that damn book.

I love this quote - luckily, I'm using the book myself at the moment anyway. It's:-

“I fell in love with him the moment I met him. There was something about him—his eyes, the way he carried himself, as if he were something more than Human— even when he was still mortal.”
-Queen Neferata, on Vashanesh

[/quote]

Could not recall the exact quote myself but I love the information in this book so much, there is no maybe's but just solid quotes and facts.
It also adds such depth to the characters as well which we rarely get nowadays.

By the way I find it curious. They basically replaced Vashanesh with Alictaadazazaz DAMN HIS NAME as a love interest. *scratches head* I will try to poke the author a bit.

Also someone needs to make a grand story spoiler post about Simgars blood.

This will never replace the cannon.
Its one badly wrote novel against a entire background, any VC player worth thier salt knows the VC lore and changing it to this BS has not been received happily by many.
The only reason I would by those books would be to beat the author with them.

To be honest though there are allot of bad GW novels, hell look at the Book Angels books by James Swallow.
Even my store manager hates those and he normally defends even the worst things GW come out with. :slapface:

I'm an old lore lover too DDM. I ignore the newer stuff. So happy I have the old NDM book, why the hell it was published as a softcover though :swear: The Skaven book was hardcover.

I'm still unsure about Sigmar's Blood, (the finale sounds cool) but if there's one thing I cannot stand it's typos in books that I pay a lot of cash for. There are some pretty awful typos in most of GW's books and I heard this one has quite a few. It's a pet peeve of mine and why I will never write my own book as I would shoot myself reading it back.:lol:

Well it was GW RP where the Skaven book is a heraldry book.
Undead don't get allot of herldry. (apart from awesome famous units of the past)
Either way though GW have not made any new VC lore in a long while, just a few novels which is as much reliable lore as it changes from author to author as the promises you find printed on the back of a cerial box.

It does have a fair few typos, took me all of 3 minutes to find the first one, some pages have multiple and the wrong rule written.
Hell it annoys me that most the magic items just say, works like this item from the main rule book and to refer to that.
At least print the full rules in the campaign book for christ sake. :swear:

 

[Von Calyptra]

Incidentally, GW's site has a "Sigmar's Blood Scenery Collection" that's a surprisingly good deal: Deathknell Watch, Witchfate Tor, and the Garden of Morr for $115 US (retails separately for $165).

 

[Shareya]

Sigh.

Sure fine the books that GW hired the writers to write are badly done and the old books clearly can not have out of date lore and are perfectly written *rolls eyes*

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Sigh.

Sure fine the books that GW hired the writers to write are badly done and the old books clearly can not have out of date lore and are perfectly written *rolls eyes*

I direct your attention to The Circle of Blood Campaign and The Red Duke Novel.
A perfect follow on of the lore with a for the most part a good written novel. (S6till has the good side win button but it is GW after all.)

But no, for the most part the novels are poor comparisons to the GW lore.
I am happy to see it expanded, not rewrote.
We don't rewrite history we write a book based of a historical event, GW Lore is game History itself and does not deserve to be disregarded and doing so is a slap in the face to everyone who follows the lore behind the games and the events in the.

Where as the old Books are not perfectly written they are correct, we are not adverse to progression, just not replacement.

 

[Shareya]

Most games and settings get their lore adjusted so very many times. But I am not going to get into this anymore. We are going to disagree with it and I am going to end up angry Just try to respect that people can and will disagree with this and simply calling new lore/novels they like crap does not make your old lore more viable.

 

[Shareya]

HAH! damn i feel good about myself.

About Vashes and new lore:

Utterly written out, I'm afraid. Vlad Von Carstein is officially a mystery man, whose origin is shrouded in secrecy as per GW.

GW told all the authors to wipe out vash. So sorry new lore = right lore.

 

[Malochai]

HAH! damn i feel good about myself.

About Vashes and new lore:

Utterly written out, I'm afraid. Vlad Von Carstein is officially a mystery man, whose origin is shrouded in secrecy as per GW.

GW told all the authors to wipe out vash. So sorry new lore = right lore.

Actually, new lore is official lore. Personally, I know that Vlad was originally meant to Vashanesh, and I intend to keep him as Vashanesh in my stories and RP backgrounds as and when it comes up.

This is all a matter of picking which version of the contradictory lore you prefer, or which parts of the huge scale of the lore and running with it!

 

[Shareya]

Sure. I don't mind at all if someone states he does not like the new official lore and prefers the old one.

 

[Von Calyptra]

I just wanted to talk about Sigmar's Blood, you bastards.

You want to argue about this? Fine. I can argue about this.

GW touts their lore as being a primary selling point of their games, to the extent of releasing products that are nothing, or nearly nothing else. Their business model is not to get people to play the game, but to immerse them in the setting, so that they sell us all manner of things besides just game pieces. They need players who are passionate about the game and their faction, so that they can sell those players books and supplements and models and art prints and all sorts of crap, and that passion is what is supposed to propel a player through countless hours of assembling, converting, and painting our beautiful toy soldiers. That passion, which GW both encourages and relies upon, is why we have forums like this one. And arguments like this one. Which is happening instead of talking about Sigmar's Blood, which is a cool little book that I was excited about.

When a book like, say, Liber Necris comes out, you shell out the money for it, because it more information about a thing that you are passionate about, and theoretically it makes you even more excited about your favorite Warhammer faction. So when GW goes, "Hey remember that book you spent all that money on, about that thing that you like so much, which provided the basis for so many late-night conversations with friends about what is and what could be in this setting you're so invested in? JUST KIDDING! We take it all back," it is absolutely a slap in the face. Did I waste my money on Liber Necris? If they released a current lore equivalent to Liber Necris now, would there be a point in buying it given that they might change their mind on all of it the next month? It's not just a slap in the face, it's bad business given their business model.

I think that GW puts out a very high value product that appeals in terms of game, story, background, and hobby. But once it's out, it seems like they often promptly attempt to remove all value from it, by changing the rules, the story, the background, and occasionally, whether or not you can even use those models.

I'm not saying that the rewritten lore is bad. But it's troubling for customers who loved and spent a lot of money engaging in the old lore, and it's a problem when two players try to talk about the lore that they both love and then realize they're talking about different iterations of it.

Hey, did anybody pick up Sigmar's Blood? The first scenario puts your necromancer on a corpse cart, and common wisdom is that corpse cart-riding necromancers are cannon bait. And, appropriately, the Empire player is provided with a cannon. Sacking it with dire wolves seems like the only solution, but the Empire gets a unit of knights too, who can probably intercept. It seems like a problem.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Lore and novel are different which is what we seem to disagree on and you have trouble spotting that.
In certain books you find vampire giants amongst a host of other would never be's and they are ignored.

Feel good about yourself?...
He has not been in a couple of books but is nearly every other one.
Your jumping the boat a bit just because he did not feature in Time of Legends which was heavily debating back on the forums even then.

I assume you have a source or is this just rumour?
As far as I know GW don't tell us anything about their plans in said regards, can't even get straight answers from authors at games day for the most part.






We have it in black and white that he was so there is no doubt who Vlad is.
Just the question of where they will put him instead or is he going to pop up in a new campaign elsewhere or what?...
I'm just wondering what is going to happen next, maybe Sigmars twin brother will turn up.

Trying to follow this game is like trying to make sense of the bible at times, nothing makes sense and answers are nowhere to be found.



At the end of the day, it all comes down to preference.
I just argue it very strongly as I see it more of a historical document to be built off, not twisted out of shape by every tom dick and harry who think they can write a novel.
Granted GW have made some of the best novels i have ever read but at the same time they also have some of the worst.




But no, I think we should get back to the campaign book itself rarther than the rewrite of the lore which is related to it as we tend to get rappidly off topic.

 

[Shareya]

As I stated in the other thread. I asked the author why he was not there and it was the will of GW and in the end of the day if they say X has changed then that is the official standpoint. If you disagree with it and want to stick to the old lore? Go ahead! Everyone has such a right and I don't mind at all.

But you can't argue and twist that is the right or "real" way to do it because it's not. Love it or hate the official lore is shelved out by GW and that is that. It's the same in Warcraft. A lot, LOT what they do we absolutely hate but are forced to accept it because in the end it's Metzen ( lore guy in there) and his insane group that develop the story.

Also Von Calyptra I still want the grand story spoiler post As I don't want to buy the book just for the story. Seems bit expensive for that!

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

I have not had the time to have a proper read through that one like I have been meaning to do.
I still take everything in that regards with a pinch of salt, they are allowed free form for the most part and everything I have been told at gamesdays by them in the past has been wrong so I put more faith into apples customer service.

There is a lore guy for warcraft?...
I thought they just ripped off the most recent successful movies or books...

 

[Adam_Barrow]

Anybody notice the 2014 edition of the White Dwarf model is him standing on a coffin killing a vampire? They're not-so-subtly gearing up for an Undead fight, it seems.

He's in the Dwarf Lords/Heroes page on the gw website.

 

[Blutsauger]

Sigh.

Sure fine the books that GW hired the writers to write are badly done and the old books clearly can not have out of date lore and are perfectly written *rolls eyes*

I direct your attention to The Circle of Blood Campaign and The Red Duke Novel.
A perfect follow on of the lore with a for the most part a good written novel. (S6till has the good side win button but it is GW after all.)

But no, for the most part the novels are poor comparisons to the GW lore.
I am happy to see it expanded, not rewrote.
We don't rewrite history we write a book based of a historical event, GW Lore is game History itself and does not deserve to be disregarded and doing so is a slap in the face to everyone who follows the lore behind the games and the events in the.

Where as the old Books are not perfectly written they are correct, we are not adverse to progression, just not replacement.

I'm not entirely sure what we're discussing here, but I'd like to point out that previously, there were no bloodlines and I'd personally like to see a return to that situation, like we currently do in the Army Book.

 

[Shareya]

I have not had the time to have a proper read through that one like I have been meaning to do.
I still take everything in that regards with a pinch of salt, they are allowed free form for the most part and everything I have been told at gamesdays by them in the past has been wrong so I put more faith into apples customer service.

There is a lore guy for warcraft?...
I thought they just ripped off the most recent successful movies or books...

Holy moly it is hard to post on the mobile
Like i said this time GW told the authors to remove Vash. Why and what they got planned? Who knows. They can change it all in a month again.

Also if i recall correctly bloodlines where always inlore just on the board you can use all units due to fun and balace.
Edit: yep i am aware that for a while even in game bloodlines mattered.
Edit2: and yes and no. Some joke quests can refer to a movie or book. But the problem is mostly that the lore team love a redemption storys and shining knight stuff

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Anybody notice the 2014 edition of the White Dwarf model is him standing on a coffin killing a vampire? They're not-so-subtly gearing up for an Undead fight, it seems.

He's in the Dwarf Lords/Heroes page on the gw website.

It is a great model, truth be told its one of the best ones I have seen in some time.

I have not had the time to have a proper read through that one like I have been meaning to do.
I still take everything in that regards with a pinch of salt, they are allowed free form for the most part and everything I have been told at gamesdays by them in the past has been wrong so I put more faith into apples customer service.

There is a lore guy for warcraft?...
I thought they just ripped off the most recent successful movies or books...

Holy moly it is hard to post on the mobile
Like i said this time GW told the authors to remove Vash. Why and what they got planned? Who knows. They can change it all in a month again.

Also if i recall correctly bloodlines where always inlore just on the board you can use all units due to fun and balace.
Edit: yep i am aware that for a while even in game bloodlines mattered.
Edit2: and yes and no. Some joke quests can refer to a movie or book. But the problem is mostly that the lore team love a redemption storys and shining knight stuff

Feeling you pain dude.

GW are very flip flop, unless it makes something that will make them allot of money they tend to change their minds from begining to end.


Personally I miss the old rule books where you used to get bloodline powers.
It was a great set up, you had more themed armies due to certain units and abilities not being in every blood line, it was allot like the chaos gods and their marks in that regards.

Well it is the old world so you are goijng to get knights.
Regardless though, it did follow the campaign and the novel did well with that with a few minor tweeks which led to a good book, does not matter if that is the type of storey they love or not, they followed the lore and came out on top with the best of both worlds.
Thats all most of us want.

 

[Von Calyptra]

I believe the vampire the 2014 White Dwarf model is about to stake is the Black Gobbo, which explains both the tiny coffin and his not tiny nose.