New nuns with guns codex is out.. is it bettet than the 5th ed wd one? Just looks homaginized to me
Discuss...or not.
Discuss...or not.
SoB
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First of, let me just say that I've been a 'Sisters' player since the first release in the mid 90s.
Now, with that out of the way ...
Things that have definitely improved:
- SoB squad size: SoB core units are now 5+ but can still bring two special weapons or one special and one heavy weapon.
This is the best improvement ever, or rather, taking it back to ow it used to be in the 2nd ed. codex.
- Dominions: Can now bring 4 Meltas or 4 flamers in a unit of 5.
- Immolator is now a better transport option, Multi Melta still trumps the ol' heavy flamer though.
- The Command Squad is now very interesting, given all the options you can combine in one of them (sadly, it still forces you to take a generic Canoness ...).
Things that might become interesting, but only play-testing will show:
- Priests ! These guys got a lot cheaper, can select relics and unlock the Battle Conclave. War Hymns might prove useful ... they might, but yet Sisters are not a dedicated close combat army, even of the codex tries to tell you so. But we'll get to that later ...
- Altered Acts of Faith systems: Acts are now once per game by default ... but there finally is a use for all the Simulacra, which also got cheaper. We'll see how this'll play out, most Acts should be fine when avaiable twice per game. Also, there's always the option to add Jacobus as a HQ for 3 Acts / game.
As for the Acts themselves ... basic Sister squads got improved, Dominions now able to ignore cover are a double-edged sword. You surely don't need it when totting flamers, but ignoring cover saves when shooting at things that get a 'Jink' with you Melta-Gurls might be useful.
Seraphim are okay, as always, didn't expect otherwise.
Retributors ... the loss of rending Heavy Bolters for the entire game sure hit them hard ... should I ever take then again (since I mostly bring Exorcists), it'll be with 4 (1x rending) heavy flamers for sure.
Things that got worse or still are crap:
- Still no Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors (and I hate to bring Coteaz just to unlock some inquisitorial acolythes).
- Repentia ... (see next entry)
- STILL NO FUCKIN' ASSAUL VEHICLES ! Even if one would like to TRY to bring some close combat forces ... you simply can't ! Thus, Repentia are useless unless you sink insane amounts of points into support for them (which are better spend on our shooty side), and Conclaves still have to footslog it. At least Conclaves are able to do so, given their Storm Shield crusaders.
- Celestine got a lot more expensive and only 'coming back' once now (granted, she was to powerful before).
- Kyrinov ? Hello ? Guy has vanished without a trace.
- No more Arch-Confessors ... guess they don't go to war anymore.
All in all, I'm quite happy with the new codex though. I have plenty of variation to field a good mid-range shooty list, essentially what the Sisters have been all along. Exorcists for long-range fire support got even cheaper. The priests offer some 'buffs' to boost your units should they ever get into close combat with enemy units.
Also, Relics are back ! Yay for fluff ! We even got our own warlord traits (most of them are kinda crap though ...), and three special missions (which I really, really like !).
The problem is: Like I mentioned above, the codex is still trying to tell you, you could field a deidicated assault army. You CANNOT. Oh, sure, you can try, but all the things you'd need to stack up and buff your troops to survive fisticuffs against dedicated melee units will become so bloody f*****g expensive, that you're better of bringing what the Sisters always brought to the table, and always were: A medium ranged shooty army with the toughness of the Imperial Guard and the Power Armour of the Marines.
Nevertheless, I might try a melee-oriented list maybe once or so, not in a competitve game, but maybe for fun, with good friends and a keg of beer.
Please note, that this is all just my personal opinion. I've not evaluated every single unit on a one-on-one basis, nor will I do so.
Just my general impressions.
The internet is allready filled to the brim with nerdrages and flame-wars about the 'new' Sisters codex - don't let this topic turn into another one, please.
Why 'new' ? Well, the codex didn#t bring anything new or fresh actually ... it just made a few things more viable, and others less so.
Guess that's the fate of us Sororitas players ... *smirks*
Peace.
... I mean ... Emperor Protects !
Now, with that out of the way ...
Things that have definitely improved:
- SoB squad size: SoB core units are now 5+ but can still bring two special weapons or one special and one heavy weapon.
This is the best improvement ever, or rather, taking it back to ow it used to be in the 2nd ed. codex.
- Dominions: Can now bring 4 Meltas or 4 flamers in a unit of 5.
- Immolator is now a better transport option, Multi Melta still trumps the ol' heavy flamer though.
- The Command Squad is now very interesting, given all the options you can combine in one of them (sadly, it still forces you to take a generic Canoness ...).
Things that might become interesting, but only play-testing will show:
- Priests ! These guys got a lot cheaper, can select relics and unlock the Battle Conclave. War Hymns might prove useful ... they might, but yet Sisters are not a dedicated close combat army, even of the codex tries to tell you so. But we'll get to that later ...
- Altered Acts of Faith systems: Acts are now once per game by default ... but there finally is a use for all the Simulacra, which also got cheaper. We'll see how this'll play out, most Acts should be fine when avaiable twice per game. Also, there's always the option to add Jacobus as a HQ for 3 Acts / game.
As for the Acts themselves ... basic Sister squads got improved, Dominions now able to ignore cover are a double-edged sword. You surely don't need it when totting flamers, but ignoring cover saves when shooting at things that get a 'Jink' with you Melta-Gurls might be useful.
Seraphim are okay, as always, didn't expect otherwise.
Retributors ... the loss of rending Heavy Bolters for the entire game sure hit them hard ... should I ever take then again (since I mostly bring Exorcists), it'll be with 4 (1x rending) heavy flamers for sure.
Things that got worse or still are crap:
- Still no Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors (and I hate to bring Coteaz just to unlock some inquisitorial acolythes).
- Repentia ... (see next entry)
- STILL NO FUCKIN' ASSAUL VEHICLES ! Even if one would like to TRY to bring some close combat forces ... you simply can't ! Thus, Repentia are useless unless you sink insane amounts of points into support for them (which are better spend on our shooty side), and Conclaves still have to footslog it. At least Conclaves are able to do so, given their Storm Shield crusaders.
- Celestine got a lot more expensive and only 'coming back' once now (granted, she was to powerful before).
- Kyrinov ? Hello ? Guy has vanished without a trace.
- No more Arch-Confessors ... guess they don't go to war anymore.
All in all, I'm quite happy with the new codex though. I have plenty of variation to field a good mid-range shooty list, essentially what the Sisters have been all along. Exorcists for long-range fire support got even cheaper. The priests offer some 'buffs' to boost your units should they ever get into close combat with enemy units.
Also, Relics are back ! Yay for fluff ! We even got our own warlord traits (most of them are kinda crap though ...), and three special missions (which I really, really like !).
The problem is: Like I mentioned above, the codex is still trying to tell you, you could field a deidicated assault army. You CANNOT. Oh, sure, you can try, but all the things you'd need to stack up and buff your troops to survive fisticuffs against dedicated melee units will become so bloody f*****g expensive, that you're better of bringing what the Sisters always brought to the table, and always were: A medium ranged shooty army with the toughness of the Imperial Guard and the Power Armour of the Marines.
Nevertheless, I might try a melee-oriented list maybe once or so, not in a competitve game, but maybe for fun, with good friends and a keg of beer.
Please note, that this is all just my personal opinion. I've not evaluated every single unit on a one-on-one basis, nor will I do so.
Just my general impressions.
The internet is allready filled to the brim with nerdrages and flame-wars about the 'new' Sisters codex - don't let this topic turn into another one, please.
Why 'new' ? Well, the codex didn#t bring anything new or fresh actually ... it just made a few things more viable, and others less so.
Guess that's the fate of us Sororitas players ... *smirks*
Peace.
... I mean ... Emperor Protects !
I've been a collector for years(With the price, who hasn't) & just started playing them this summer.
The only thing I can add that Mr West hasn't mentioned, & my feelings mirror his so far, is that the Immolator spam & 3 excorcists sitting in a landing pad are back with a vengance. Both of these options will be the starting point of most competative lists.
The only thing I can add that Mr West hasn't mentioned, & my feelings mirror his so far, is that the Immolator spam & 3 excorcists sitting in a landing pad are back with a vengance. Both of these options will be the starting point of most competative lists.
John Rainbow
Crypt Horror
3++ have a decent review of the new SoB book up that you might want to check out:
http://www.3plusplus.net/2013/10/first-look-revised-sisters-of-battle/
http://www.3plusplus.net/2013/10/first-look-revised-sisters-of-battle/
Way to negative a review.
Oh, of course Sisters still have a truckload of useless units, but with this incarnarion of the codex it actually is easier to write a competitive list than with the last one.
But yeah, reviews like this will be the standard in the days to come ...
Oh, of course Sisters still have a truckload of useless units, but with this incarnarion of the codex it actually is easier to write a competitive list than with the last one.
But yeah, reviews like this will be the standard in the days to come ...
They always are. There is so much hate for the sisters. My wife has been playing them since the 90's. Im glad that the new book has some viable builds and she may actually start playing 40k with me again.
Mr. West, you mirror my assesment on this book. Some of the minor changes are huge. 5 woman squads brought immo's into a league of their own. And i had not even thought of the sky shield.
Mr. West, you mirror my assesment on this book. Some of the minor changes are huge. 5 woman squads brought immo's into a league of their own. And i had not even thought of the sky shield.
I don't think the review is overly negative actually. It is a fairly realistic first look at the new SoB codex. Ultimately, the 3ed codex was the high point for Sisters, though it wasn't that high a point since it wasn't like they were dominating every tournament out there or something. The new codex goes some way to help them back to their former glory, but they aren't back there yet. As a standalone army, it's obvious that they're quite weak, but I think they'll be quite popular as an allied detachment for another army since they're better in that regard now.
I figure the reasoning behind the lack of Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors is the same reasoning behind the total lack of Ordo Xenos inquisitors in the entire game system- that the Gray Knights book are the go-to codex for the inquisition and that you are supposed to ally your imperial forces with them to get an inquisitor.
It may not be ideal for everyone but it kind of makes sense.
It may not be ideal for everyone but it kind of makes sense.
Sanai said:
Yup, but if you want to include the nice and fluffy inquisitorial ACOLYTHES and not the stupid Grey Knights for troop choices .... then you gotta select Coteaz as your allied HQ, and quite frankly, I hate Coteaz.
Thus the entire Inquisition thing has not been well solved for everyone.
Dimreapa
Skeleton
Sanai said:
I'm sorry to be a little cynical about this, but for me only one explanation fits. GW are orientated more or less fully around their miniatures releases. They have released no new models for Sisters, and they haven't even stuck them in the Finecast range (can't say that is much of a downside, more the reverse, actually).
So because they aren't getting miniatures, I wouldn't expect the Dev Team to even give the pretence of effort to make sure the Sisters work so well. They wont get new elements, unless they get a future release, but I wouldn't hold my breath. The WD list was particularly loathed, and it wasn't difficult to see why.
I'll continue to use my Sisters, but fortunately I have enough distractions that I don't have to think about them for a while yet.
erv:
Am I the only person who's a sad panda about the new SoB? It's an improvement yes, but it seems that people are trying too hard to like a bad update. A gold covered turd is still a turd. The lack of assassins and the sheer annoyance of allies... and skyfire... and overwatch... and 6th edition makes me so :swear:
Must Resist Rant... overall they just seem so meh to me now. They don't really stand out other than the crazy amout of melta that they can throw around; and they have boobs, can't forget about those boobies.
Overall:
Warlord traits:
5+ SoF is good, others = poop.
Celastine: o_o Still playable.
Jacobus: o_o Not bad
Canoness: Martyr, that sums it up.
Command Squad: Retributors do it better.
Priests: o_o It seems that they are good, but theres not enough CC to make them super useful.
Battle Conclave: o_o So mixed on this one, overwatch and no assault vehicle makes me want to throw them into a box.
Troops:
Better overall.
Celestians: They don't score, troops do it better.
Repentia: Even with the possible 3+ FNP, overwatch/everyone carries a flamer = dead.
Seraphim: Still good I think. Point cost mixed with shred and reroll invuln is decent but their I3 = poop.
Dominions: Scout, fun toys, playable.
PE's: Better but still the suck. It's nice that they don't just run off anymore though.
Exocist: Point Drop = No sisters player will ever not use them.
Retributors: It's 6th ed. You need H.Bolters and big guns. Auto include.
So, That gives 6 votes for suck, 4 votes for meh, and 5 votes for good. That's a 2:1 vote on the poop scale for me.
I'm not trying to be a downer but GW has dropped the ball so bad lately.
Must Resist Rant... overall they just seem so meh to me now. They don't really stand out other than the crazy amout of melta that they can throw around; and they have boobs, can't forget about those boobies.
Overall:
Warlord traits:
5+ SoF is good, others = poop.Celastine: o_o Still playable.
Jacobus: o_o Not bad
Canoness:
Martyr, that sums it up.Command Squad:
Retributors do it better.Priests: o_o It seems that they are good, but theres not enough CC to make them super useful.
Battle Conclave: o_o So mixed on this one, overwatch and no assault vehicle makes me want to throw them into a box.
Troops:
Better overall.Celestians:
They don't score, troops do it better.Repentia:
Even with the possible 3+ FNP, overwatch/everyone carries a flamer = dead.Seraphim:
Still good I think. Point cost mixed with shred and reroll invuln is decent but their I3 = poop.Dominions:
Scout, fun toys, playable.PE's:
Better but still the suck. It's nice that they don't just run off anymore though.Exocist:
Point Drop = No sisters player will ever not use them.Retributors:
It's 6th ed. You need H.Bolters and big guns. Auto include.So, That gives 6 votes for suck, 4 votes for meh, and 5 votes for good. That's a 2:1 vote on the poop scale for me.
I'm not trying to be a downer but GW has dropped the ball so bad lately.
Alzarakh said:
No, you are not ?
Because most people hate it, actually.
Personally, I'm liking it, but you can find my thoughts on page 1 of this thread.
As for assassins and allies ... you just might want to re-read the post above yours, or simply check the BL website blog.
Skyfire ? Overwatch ? Sixth edition ? All huge improvements over the utter crap that used ot be 5th edition in my book. Yeah, close combat is now difficult to initiate properly - but what to expect in an environment where guns rule gallore.