SOPA, PIPA and ACTA

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Vampire bk

Ghoul
Aug 22, 2010
174
Zombies
91
ok i posted this threat to let people know what the american are up to and how this will affect our forum.
i also posted this because i just cant stomach this
you might have heard about these 3 before .
Theres massiva ranting going on in the gaming world about these 3 words
these 3 shortcuts are 3 new laws made by the american goverment called
Stop Online Piracy act
Protect Intelectual property act and
Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement
try saying that 3 times fast

ACTA explanation]

SOPA & PIPA

how will these affect our forum
well in short this forum will be closed down.
games workshop has the rights to shut down this site because we are discussing copyrighted things.
before this was not possible because those copyrighted things were not really important but now becaus you posted a point value on a unit or because you posted a vampire load-out this site can be prosecuted shut down and the makers/maintainers go of with a fine or maybe even prison sentence (looking at megaupload now)

how will this affect you in normal life?

well easy, we pretty much wont have internet anymore. the americans can shut down any site with copyright infringement.
that means no youtube no twitter no facebook and the list goes on

the movies explain this much better so watch them
 
A bunch of 50+ yr olds, most of whom probably can't even use a computer, deciding how/what the internet should be used for is absolutely ridiculous.

I'm SOO glad I'm not an American! WAKE UP, it's virtually the same as the Great Firewall of China.

edit: HA, if you wikipedia search for "Great Firewall" there's an option for "of America" now!
 
Bishop said:
A bunch of 50+ yr olds, most of whom probably can't even use a computer, deciding how/what the internet should be used for is absolutely ridiculous.

I'm SOO glad I'm not an American! WAKE UP, it's virtually the same as the Great Firewall of China.

edit: HA, if you wikipedia search for "Great Firewall" there's an option for "of America" now!
Not being in the US won't stop the US from getting you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzS5rSvZXe8
 
I am sure we have all heard it by this point and also heard that it has been withdrawn as well.
Just wish the US government would stop trying to overstep their boundaries.

However you have to remember the same Senator "Lamar Smith" has another bill called "H.R. 1981" which is trying to piggy back on anti child pornography in order to make monitoring all all internet users mandatory and records kept for 18 months on each person without any cause.
Be that you shop online or just have an ebay addiction. :mad2:

I would love to see that guys fan mail right about now.
 
Duke Danse Macabre said:
I am sure we have all heard it by this point and also heard that it has been withdrawn as well.
Just wish the US government would stop trying to overstep their boundaries.

However you have to remember the same Senator "Lamar Smith" has another bill called "H.R. 1981" which is trying to piggy back on anti child pornography in order to make monitoring all all internet users mandatory and records kept for 18 months on each person without any cause.
Be that you shop online or just have an ebay addiction. :mad2:

I would love to see that guys fan mail right about now.
Withdrawn, no. They are going to talk about the bills next Congress Session.
 
True enough that not being in US doesn't save me... but at least I won't get trapped in their great firewall :innocent: It's not China for crying out loud... hopefully they wake up and figure out what it is that they are actually trying to do and do it properly.
 
It seems like everything our government does these days just makes us less and less popular with...well, everyone else. o_o This whole SOPA thing, it's a nightmare. A huge part of the US citizenry is against the bill, as well as virtually all of the internet corporate giants (i.e. Google, Facebook, Youtube, etc.). And yet still, it's legitimately being considered. Ugh...
 
Didn't SOPA and PIPA just get axed in the us? I thought concress put it on hold indefinatly, which is a damned good thing. Btw, I watched a good speach on it on a web page here the other day. Can't post a link, but TED is enighet of a clue.. Recomended..
 
Even if SOPA and PIPA lies on ice at the moment, ACTA has still been brewing for more than two years and will soon be voted for in parliament. It is also an international trade agreement that will have profound effects on the Internet as we know it.
 
These people are evidently stupid. The day after the whole anti-SOPA strike on the internet, they shut down MegaUpload. These people are truly sorry excuses for sentient humans; the fact that they are in positions of power in what is purportedly the strongest nation in the world is just as worrying for her own citizens as it is for the rest of the globe. :thumbsdown:

Good to see they did finally listen though. Luckily they screwed their heads on straight before there was any serious disturbance.
 
Both acts have been shelved right now we'll see how long that lasts I'm just waiting to see when I get to start signing petitions against any new things like this to stop them cold in their tracks.

I do have to agree with Bravo though it seems our government is doing a real good job of making themselves look bad more and more as the years go on hell I'm proud to be American but even I can see their really screwing up a lot of the time and making the other countries around the world think less and less of the US in general.
 
ACTA is on a far larger scale than either of the other two. It not only controls the internet, but also generic drugs and which seeds can be used for farming... all in the name of patents.
 
SOPA and PIPA aren't gone, just delayed. This is a standard tactic with legislation that's popular with special interests but unpopular with the public. The outcry goes out, the bill gets delayed, eveyone pats themselves on the back for stopping it, and it comes back next session under a new name when the public is distracted by some other issue. Some people try to raise the alarm again, but the rest say 'didn't we deal with that already?' So the outcry doesn't take off, the bill passes, the special interest wins, the politicians collect their fat campaign finance checks, and the public loses.

ACTA is another standard end run - shove the unpopular legislation in through a closed door trade agreement, plus it goes much further and is much more invasive.
 
First, this forum won't be gone, it'll just have it's dns pointer removed. You can still route to the site by pointing at a non-US dns server.

Second, this cannot stop online piracy and copyright infringement.

Third, malisteen is 100% correct in that this is a special interest group. The US government has a reliance on the funders, and a secondary reliance on post-public office life which likely will involve lobbying.

Want to write more but using an iPad and it's taking forever...
 
Much as I love most Americans I've met, I have to wonder where do you find these fuckwits for your government? I,m also (well) over 50, but I can understand the fascism of these bills- how can't they? Are normal americans excluded from their own political process? And how can one country pass a law to operate in another, sovereign state?
 
hairyjeff said:
Much as I love most Americans I've met, I have to wonder where do you find these fuckwits for your government? I,m also (well) over 50, but I can understand the fascism of these bills- how can't they? Are normal americans excluded from their own political process? And how can one country pass a law to operate in another, sovereign state?
That is exactly the problem Jeff. Americans ARE excluded from their own political process.

The American system is badly broken. Politicians spend between 30-70% of their time fund raising for reelection. The 'people' do not fund them; the Funders fund them, the top 0.05% of Americans. These people, who direct their money, control the politicians in an indirect way. It's a form of corruption. Politicians are somewhat in their pocket for two main reasons:
1) To be elected, you need money. Money for ads, commercials, to fly around the country, to hire a ton of people to run your campaign. Without money, you can't do a good job of this.
2) After public office, many officials are rehired by these same funders to be Lobbyists. From what I've read, this is normally between 3 to 4 times what they are paid when they are a public servant. Because they are only in politics for a few years for many of them, this is an important consideration so they don't want to step on the wrong toes.

Their laws do not affect the laws of another country. How it will work (very simply) is this:
Every computer has an IP address. An IP address is how computers find each other on the internet. For example, Google.ca's IP address is: 74.125.53.94. So you can type http://www.google.ca or http://74.125.53.94 and you will get to the same place. Because no one is going to remember that big string of numbers, they have what's called a DNS (Domain Name System) server. These are servers that match names to IP addresses. So you type www.google.ca and your computer says "what the heck is that? Better go ask a DNS server.". The DNS server is what tells you what their IP address is, which is what you need to connect.

How SOPA will work is whatever sites they don't want you to get to, they will remove it from those DNS servers. So you type www.google.ca, they remove it, and your computer throws up it's hands and says "I can't find that.".

Why it won't work, is that people that actually are knowledgeable about ocmputers, can point at a DNS in another country. If the DNS in the US won't tell you, ask a DNS in say, France. This was shelved for the time being, but redirection of DNS (which is a method hackers use) is still being proposed.
 
ACTA takes another venue of approach, though. It'll hold ISPs and other providers legally responsible for what their users do with their bandwidth, and the proposed co-operation between providers and rights-holders in the legislation will make it possible for them to act on IP trespassing without having to bring forth an entire court process first.

As another little juicy nugget, ACTA might warrant the authorities to check peoples' music players and laptops for illegally obtained music, videos and other things.

It will be voted for in the EU parliament some time in February. Let's hope it won't pass, or else things could get nasty. :silent:
 
There's a ton in those bills that we could discuss here.

Another major point is that PIPA will seriously hamper the US. It will hold platforms responsible for their content.

So say you have, for example, a site that is about Warhammer Vampire Counts. And say a user starts pointing links to infringing content. It is up to the site owner to police their site and remove offending links. For this forum... maybe it's doable. But what about Google? How the heck are they supposed to police all the links, and know if they are infringing content?! Impossible.
 
And youtube would have an impossible task: How many videos are posted up per day? I'm told it runs into 8 YEARS of content EVERY DAY! Hiring enough employees to check every one of them for copyright infringement... would financially cripple them. So they have to rely on the current system, sure it doesn't work every time, but it's the best they can get.
 
Vampire bk said:
how will these affect our forum
well in short this forum will be closed down.
games workshop has the rights to shut down this site because we are discussing copyrighted things.
before this was not possible because those copyrighted things were not really important but now becaus you posted a point value on a unit or because you posted a vampire load-out this site can be prosecuted shut down and the makers/maintainers go of with a fine or maybe even prison sentence (looking at megaupload now)

However I do think on this issue GW a real dinosaur compared to the jurassic giants that are the MPAA, RIAA or big soft drinks (*coughPOISONcough* producers. I think GW can't survive with sites like these to keep them up. On the internet GW has no real community, while it needs exactly that to reach out to people. A store can only do so much.


I do think this whole childish ACTA/PIPA/SOPA stuff has been going on for too long though. These backroom hushhush politics with the main goal of giving outdated business models and the people who make use of them a way of realizing their short-therm money grabbing goals.

There was a time when I questioned whether downloading was alright to do. I mean, its legal where I live under certain circumstances. So I read up on the effects. Now I feel like friggin Robin Hood! :tongue: Well thats an overstatement but I do not consider it morally wrong to ''steal'' stuff from people that:

- In the case of movies and music still gets delivered on very fragile carriers.
- Again in the above cases, we all know samples and trailers are less and less representative of the real deal. And thus my risk of buying something is so high I would not have bought it in 98% of the cases.
- Try to use low blows and pathetic loophole to get their monopolies, and thus kill the very ''creativity'' they try to get that monopoly on.
- In the case of patents abuse their knowledge of the system to plunder in the 21st century fashion. (Stealing someones right to grow ''their'' only recently patented crops that have grown on their fields for who knows how long? And then forcing them to pay}
- Think only short therm profit. Long therm profit, and try very hard not to adapt.
-Tried to ban the MP3 player!! I virtually LIVE on that thing damnit!

And many more reasons that I cant formulate on this unfortunate hour after a sleepless night. I think they need to be punished. They try to turn millions of people into criminals!

Thats got to be criminal, right? :happy:

(Ohh and I still buy CDs, and shirts, and go to concerts. I like supporting the artist as much as I can. Just not the dinosaurs, they died out, accept it.)
 
The one thing I most object to here- America dictating what websites can or cannot operate.
I am an Australian. Its all well and good for you americans, you can vote which party gets into office, and vote to choose whether the guys creating this act get back into power.

I can't. I dont get a vote on this, because I come from a different country. The internet is just as much a part of my life as it is for Americans, its an international thing and one arrogant government is trying to legislate their control over the entire thing.
 
In the spirit of a good debate, I'd like to ask people what are their opinions on the way forward for the Internet and the right of a person who has created something to try to protect their intellectual copyright and their want and right to be able to make a living?

Before I go on, I just want to point out that I don't agree with these bills that the Americans are trying to force through their Senates. Such a blunt and heavy handed (and ignorant) tactic will never, or I should say, should never work.

But I can see both sides of the whole Internet and intellectual copyright debate.

I'm 38, so I grew up in an era pre-internet, where sure, we still pirated things, but it would be giving a mate a cassette tape of a band that you liked that you thought they should check out, or a floppy disc of some games that they had asked for ie. C64 era. So the impact that all of that would have was very minimal as it was limited to just amongst your circle of friends. If anything, a lot of the time it might help a band or game by giving them exposure and creating some hype around them.

Then along came the Internet, and as much as I love it and find it hard to imagine what did I do in the days prior to it coming along, I do have to say in some ways it's had a lot of negative impacts.

One of the biggest that I see is the attitude of a lot of kids/younger people that don't know what it was like without it. They have such a sense of entitlement, especially regarding music. Ever since Napster, a big prevailing attitude is 'why should I pay for music when I can just download it for free?'. Ummmm because the artist busted their butt creating this music, and they deserve the opportunity to seek some reward for their effort and to try to make a living out of it? I know a lot of people will say that Óh, but the big artists are so rich, they don't need anymore money..'but everyone who downloads music without paying for it, is not only downloading the big popular artists. And it's happening now with tv shows and movies. No one wants to have to pay for anything nowadays. And if you think or believe that this is not going to have an impact on those industries in the negative, then you are wrong, very, very wrong. There is going to be a lot less money poured back into tv and movies, a lot less risks will be taken, studios are only going to risk money on projects that they believe is going to make some sort of return for them. And what this is going to mean is that you are really going to see less and less really interesting movies being made and movies that actually have something to say.

It's all going to be bland, safe blockbusters, cookie cutter stuff that the studios know they are at least going to break even with. Why do you think you see so many damn remakes lately??! Why take a risk on something new when you can just rehash something that made you money in the past??! And I'm sorry, but the Internet and it's users and their attitude of everything should be free has to take some of the blame for this. A perfect example I heard the other month was that the producers behind a local Australian tv show that got a lot of good hype and reviews around it were having a lot of trouble trying to shop it to the American market because it had been already illegally uploaded and made available on various download sites in the US. And the resulting impact of this all was that there wasn't going to be the same amount of money available to make other local shows and to keep local people in the tv/movie industry in work. That is the real impact that illegal downloading has on these industries, and in turn, in the amount of interesting and varied works that we will have the opportunity to see.

Anyone who thinks otherwise, I'm sorry but you are kidding yourself. That, or you are an idiot.

The other effect of this is we see groups like the movie association trying to get stupid bills like these three into legislation and go way too far the other way and restrict the Internet to a ridiculous degree that borders on the censorship that China loves so much.

But I cannot blame them for wanting to protect their copyright rights. They poured money, time, and effort into it. What gives you the right to then download it without paying anything for it, just because you have this arrogant sense of entitlement where you think just because you can, you have the right to do it?

It's not a straight forward, simplistic issue with an easy answer. But trust me, something is going to happen, things will eventually change. The Internet is not going to remain the free for all it once was. Some sort of happy medium is going to have to be found.

By the way, I'm no angel. Whilst I still purchase the majority of my music and tv shows/movies etc. there are some I have downloaded myself illegally, because I could. I just know that if one day I receive a letter from my Internet provider warning me to cease and desist from doing so, I'm not going to go on a rant about these fat cat studios impinging my civil rights to use the Internet as I see fit. I know what I'm doing, and I know that there can be sometimes consequences for it, but I also know that having been raised in an era where you were taught the value of things, that I respect someone else's right to try to protect their own rights to receive reward for their work and to be able to make a living.

Let the debate begin! xD
 

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