Even 6 squads of scouts could be justified if alot of the chapters tactical squads are busy elsewhere or the chapter needs a large infiltrating force for a mission.
Space Marine Scout Army??
- Thread starter Luke Von Carstein
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Yeah I think it is justifiable saying there out scouting ahead of the main force while keeping contact with each other relaying information back and forth.
yeah that would be good if i wasnt using things like using jump pack scouts and devastator scout squads as well as a scout captain *when i say this i mean using the models for them eg scouts with jump packs and using assault marine rules
I think you might end up with a few odd looks and a couple people frowning at the sight of scouts with lascannons and jump packs and so on while some others might find it cool to see.
But in the end your money your hobby so perfectly fine what you want to do with your own models just be prepared for some people reacting to it.
But in the end your money your hobby so perfectly fine what you want to do with your own models just be prepared for some people reacting to it.
Well as I actually know GC08 from the Bolter and Chainsword and have had the pleasure of having my teeth kicked in by them I can attest to them being a decent force.
As for the composition you cant take Telion as a Captain, making that obvious just in case I was reading the OP correct in the first place (not just using the model to represent a captain as I read it on the second pass).
As for fluff justification well its a large Galaxy. The enemy could have landed in the middle of a 10th Company training zone. The Chapter you represent could keep the bulk of its 10th Company as a single fighting force for one reason or another. It could be a crusade, somewhat akin to what the Black Templars do.
In terms of modelling scouts as other functioning units, well that is largely what GreatCrusade08 is in the middle of doing. His Typhoons (that he no longer fields) are actually Storm Speeders with 2 ML scouts clutching to each side. His Thunderfire Cannons are bike/trike mounted to fit in with the "theme" and he has a scout command squad complete with Company Champion, Apothecary and Banner Bearer (not sure on the last one as it has been a while since I saw them in the flesh).
It looks good as long as it looks good
As for the composition you cant take Telion as a Captain, making that obvious just in case I was reading the OP correct in the first place (not just using the model to represent a captain as I read it on the second pass).
As for fluff justification well its a large Galaxy. The enemy could have landed in the middle of a 10th Company training zone. The Chapter you represent could keep the bulk of its 10th Company as a single fighting force for one reason or another. It could be a crusade, somewhat akin to what the Black Templars do.
In terms of modelling scouts as other functioning units, well that is largely what GreatCrusade08 is in the middle of doing. His Typhoons (that he no longer fields) are actually Storm Speeders with 2 ML scouts clutching to each side. His Thunderfire Cannons are bike/trike mounted to fit in with the "theme" and he has a scout command squad complete with Company Champion, Apothecary and Banner Bearer (not sure on the last one as it has been a while since I saw them in the flesh).
It looks good as long as it looks good
Heres a rough list i came up with dont know how effective its gonna be but basically there going to infiltrate into position and harass the enemys line. As well i dont have much in the way of anti tank but most of the armys i play dont include many which is just luck really but if need be i have a powerfist and 2 sets of meltabombs. And can anyone tell me whether a sniper rifle can get a glancing on a armour value of 10?
Space Marine Chapter Master, Melta Bombs, Power Sword, Storm Bolter
10 Man Scout Squad, Snipers, Camo Cloaks, Brother Seargent Telion
10 Man Scout Squad, Snipers, Camo Cloaks
10 Man Scout Squad, Bolt Pistols And Close Combat Weapons, Melta Bombs, Camo Cloaks, Powerfist
10 Man Scout Squad, Bolters, Camo Cloaks
10 Man Scout Squad, Bolters, Camo Cloaks
Space Marine Chapter Master, Melta Bombs, Power Sword, Storm Bolter
10 Man Scout Squad, Snipers, Camo Cloaks, Brother Seargent Telion
10 Man Scout Squad, Snipers, Camo Cloaks
10 Man Scout Squad, Bolt Pistols And Close Combat Weapons, Melta Bombs, Camo Cloaks, Powerfist
10 Man Scout Squad, Bolters, Camo Cloaks
10 Man Scout Squad, Bolters, Camo Cloaks
That is just way too many points in camo cloaks you could almost afford a sixth 10 man scout squad with the 135 points you have tied up in cloaks.
Also where is your chapter master going he can't be up with the scouts he can't infiltrate.
I think your going to want to rework that list your units are going to be very slow to claim objectives because every single unit is on foot so you would need to do a lot of running in the shooting phase.
You only have one squad your using it seems for assault while all the others are shooting support that one squad is going to get chewed up and spat back out with no other assault support.
I don't think a sniper rifle can even glance armour 10 but I would need to look to be sure but pretty sure that it can't with SX.
Lack of anti-tank I think will hurt you some all your tank busting requires you to be right against the tanks hull and if you lose the ones carrying the fist and melta bombs there goes your anti-tank I would try and get some missile launchers in there for the dual ability to hurt infantry and tanks.
That's about all I can think of at the moment so I'll leave it at that.
Hm yeah I remember those storms with scouts hanging off I think he posted it on the B&C one day.
Also where is your chapter master going he can't be up with the scouts he can't infiltrate.
I think your going to want to rework that list your units are going to be very slow to claim objectives because every single unit is on foot so you would need to do a lot of running in the shooting phase.
You only have one squad your using it seems for assault while all the others are shooting support that one squad is going to get chewed up and spat back out with no other assault support.
I don't think a sniper rifle can even glance armour 10 but I would need to look to be sure but pretty sure that it can't with SX.
Lack of anti-tank I think will hurt you some all your tank busting requires you to be right against the tanks hull and if you lose the ones carrying the fist and melta bombs there goes your anti-tank I would try and get some missile launchers in there for the dual ability to hurt infantry and tanks.
That's about all I can think of at the moment so I'll leave it at that.
Hm yeah I remember those storms with scouts hanging off I think he posted it on the B&C one day.
Space Marine Chapter Master, Melta Bombs, Power Sword, Storm Bolter
10 Man Scout Squad, Snipers, Camo Cloaks, Brother Seargent Telion
10 Man Scout Squad, Snipers, Camo Cloaks
10 Man Scout Squad, Bolt Pistols And Close Combat Weapons, Melta Bombs, Camo Cloaks, Powerfist
10 Man Scout Squad, Bolters, Camo Cloaks
5 Man Devastator Squad, 4 Missile Launchers
I dont mind about the camo cloaks as we play on cityfight boards and as for the chapter master he will be deployed with the close combat squad and scout move up into position. It is the only combat squad in the army but the plan was for all the other squads to target one squad at a time then for the combat squad to join in. As for the on foot issue most of the squads will be infiltrating on to objectives so will give me a healthy advantage from the start.
10 Man Scout Squad, Snipers, Camo Cloaks, Brother Seargent Telion
10 Man Scout Squad, Snipers, Camo Cloaks
10 Man Scout Squad, Bolt Pistols And Close Combat Weapons, Melta Bombs, Camo Cloaks, Powerfist
10 Man Scout Squad, Bolters, Camo Cloaks
5 Man Devastator Squad, 4 Missile Launchers
I dont mind about the camo cloaks as we play on cityfight boards and as for the chapter master he will be deployed with the close combat squad and scout move up into position. It is the only combat squad in the army but the plan was for all the other squads to target one squad at a time then for the combat squad to join in. As for the on foot issue most of the squads will be infiltrating on to objectives so will give me a healthy advantage from the start.
In all honesty I would replace the Master with Shrike. He can infiltrate with your guys and he gives them fleet which may be helpful for your combat units.
There is no real gain from taking bolter scouts, you are far better off taking combat shotguns instead. Rapid Firing is nice and all but given that the combat shotgun functions exactly the same (without the AP) and still allows you to charge means that they are far better.
You forfit being able to shoot further than 12", however thats not exactly a game breaking thing. You need to be agressive with scouts in order to win.
I really wouldnt bother with the camo cloaks. You are essentially paying tactical marine prices for inferior units. Ok so you have a 3+ cover save and the potential of a 2+ one if you decide that you dont want to do anything the following turn. However its not that brilliant and will still fail against weight of numbers. You are far better off with another squad of Scouts.
At the very least you dont need Camo Cloaks on the unit which has Telion. They have changed the Stealth rules so that the unit benefits from them. Thus by simply buying Telion you are giving that unit Camo Cloaks anyway.
You need heavy weapons in your Sniper squads. They may be scouts but you will still need the extra bite, your Dev Squad could be picked off in the first volley and you will be left with naught but Krak grenades and a single power fist to engage armour.
I further suggest you think about including combi melta/combi flamers on your Scout Sgts. The extra bite they give is worth the points.
Dont forget that they all have infiltrate and scout. You should not be deploying anything but your Devastators and Non infiltrate HQ choices in your deployment phase. Even if you are going to put scouts in your deployment zone you should be giving nothing away until the enemy has fully deployed (even if they deploy first consider deploying everthing else in the infiltrators phase unless they have infiltrators).
There is no real gain from taking bolter scouts, you are far better off taking combat shotguns instead. Rapid Firing is nice and all but given that the combat shotgun functions exactly the same (without the AP) and still allows you to charge means that they are far better.
You forfit being able to shoot further than 12", however thats not exactly a game breaking thing. You need to be agressive with scouts in order to win.
I really wouldnt bother with the camo cloaks. You are essentially paying tactical marine prices for inferior units. Ok so you have a 3+ cover save and the potential of a 2+ one if you decide that you dont want to do anything the following turn. However its not that brilliant and will still fail against weight of numbers. You are far better off with another squad of Scouts.
At the very least you dont need Camo Cloaks on the unit which has Telion. They have changed the Stealth rules so that the unit benefits from them. Thus by simply buying Telion you are giving that unit Camo Cloaks anyway.
You need heavy weapons in your Sniper squads. They may be scouts but you will still need the extra bite, your Dev Squad could be picked off in the first volley and you will be left with naught but Krak grenades and a single power fist to engage armour.
I further suggest you think about including combi melta/combi flamers on your Scout Sgts. The extra bite they give is worth the points.
Dont forget that they all have infiltrate and scout. You should not be deploying anything but your Devastators and Non infiltrate HQ choices in your deployment phase. Even if you are going to put scouts in your deployment zone you should be giving nothing away until the enemy has fully deployed (even if they deploy first consider deploying everthing else in the infiltrators phase unless they have infiltrators).
If you are going to take a scout force land speeder storms would be a very good idea to give you some mobility.
Shadow Captain Kayvaan Shrike
10 Man Scout Squad, Snipers, Brother Seargent Telion
10 Man Scout Squad, Snipers
10 Man Scout Squad, Bolt Pistols And Close Combat Weapons, Melta Bombs, Camo Cloaks, Powerfist
10 Man Scout Squad, Shotguns
8 Man Devastator Squad, 4 Missile Launchers
Yeah i dont know whether to actually have a assault squad or just put him in a scout squad and make do with the jump pack loss.
10 Man Scout Squad, Snipers, Brother Seargent Telion
10 Man Scout Squad, Snipers
10 Man Scout Squad, Bolt Pistols And Close Combat Weapons, Melta Bombs, Camo Cloaks, Powerfist
10 Man Scout Squad, Shotguns
8 Man Devastator Squad, 4 Missile Launchers
Yeah i dont know whether to actually have a assault squad or just put him in a scout squad and make do with the jump pack loss.
Heres the list I would run at 2000 pts if I went for a scout/infiltration theme.
Shrike
Command Squad, Company Champion, Lightning claws
10 scouts, telion, bolters, heavy bolter, camo cloaks
10 scouts, snipers, missile launcher
10 scouts, snipers, missile launcher
10 scouts, snipers, missile launcher
10 scouts, snipers, missile launcher
10 scouts, shotguns
10 legion of the dammed, meltagun, multi melta
Land Speeder Storm, Assault Cannon
Land Speeder Storm, Assault Cannon
10 Scout Bikers, 3 grenade launchers, cluster mines, locater beacon
In that list, everything can infiltrate, except the land speeders and the legion of the dammed who can deep strike. (The land speeders can also just zoom around) (Shrikes special rules lets the command squad infiltrate and gives the scouts and command squad fleet)
The legion of the dammed deep strike in, using the locater beacon of the scout bikers to avoid scatter, and use their melta weapons at close range against enemy tanks. Because they are slow/purposeful they can move and still fire their multi-melta. They are also fairly tough.
The Scout bikers zoom around being pesky and providing accurate deep strike capability (try and position them near the rear of an enemy vehicle before you deep strike the legionares)
The Land Speeders provide fast transport and anti-infantry support, while the scouts are the main bulk of the force. Kayvaan and his command squad provide some close combat power.
If I were to theme a chapter around that kind of build, I would say they are a chapter that suffered horrendous losses so relies on scouts for most of the work, sending in its battle hardened, elite surviving marines (counting as legion of the dammed) via teleport when the moment is right. They have so many scouts as they are trying to rebuild an entire chapter.
Shrike
Command Squad, Company Champion, Lightning claws
10 scouts, telion, bolters, heavy bolter, camo cloaks
10 scouts, snipers, missile launcher
10 scouts, snipers, missile launcher
10 scouts, snipers, missile launcher
10 scouts, snipers, missile launcher
10 scouts, shotguns
10 legion of the dammed, meltagun, multi melta
Land Speeder Storm, Assault Cannon
Land Speeder Storm, Assault Cannon
10 Scout Bikers, 3 grenade launchers, cluster mines, locater beacon
In that list, everything can infiltrate, except the land speeders and the legion of the dammed who can deep strike. (The land speeders can also just zoom around) (Shrikes special rules lets the command squad infiltrate and gives the scouts and command squad fleet)
The legion of the dammed deep strike in, using the locater beacon of the scout bikers to avoid scatter, and use their melta weapons at close range against enemy tanks. Because they are slow/purposeful they can move and still fire their multi-melta. They are also fairly tough.
The Scout bikers zoom around being pesky and providing accurate deep strike capability (try and position them near the rear of an enemy vehicle before you deep strike the legionares)
The Land Speeders provide fast transport and anti-infantry support, while the scouts are the main bulk of the force. Kayvaan and his command squad provide some close combat power.
If I were to theme a chapter around that kind of build, I would say they are a chapter that suffered horrendous losses so relies on scouts for most of the work, sending in its battle hardened, elite surviving marines (counting as legion of the dammed) via teleport when the moment is right. They have so many scouts as they are trying to rebuild an entire chapter.
That is a nice list sanai but its way too many snipers, i dont really want that many power armoured marines either. Plus i usually play either 1000 or 1500 but thanks for the list. In reply to that story for the reasoning of the chapter having so many scouts, i like it and ill think about using that.
hi fellas.
i was having a boring morning at work and stumbled across this site, as always whenever i see a thread about scouts i jump in feet first.
Its good to see waaanial00 has been here and given you all fair warning about my scout based madness :lol: i swear he gets everywhere.
As for reasoning behind a scout army, there are several things to consider, firstly 40k is not a full war, its a snaposhot into a small section of the battlefield, im pretty sure it describes this in the rulebook somewhere..
a scout army could simply be the forward elements of your army hitting a pre arranged target or something (insert wacky ideas here)
although i havent read it yet im told the latest Ultramarines book; the chapters due, describes the tenth company fighting as a cohesive force, and whats important to remember is that the tenth much like the reserve companies is more than capable of fighting a war on its own, nothing is wasted in a space marine chapter, if they are needed they will be sent.
also i believe someone mentioned it here already but the tenth is the only company not numerically controlled by the codex astartes, it can be small or very large depending on the chapter, as an ultra-lad i suspect we have one of the largest scout companies of the codex chapters.
I always say when asked that if scouts are fighting en masse the captain and command staff will go with them, it would be the same with any other company.
As for models, every single model in my army has been converted to some degree, a couple of the guys here have seen my thunderfire cannons, command squad and typhoon scout speeders.
the latter two dont feature in my main army, i like to experiment with different units and im also big on converting everything to go with my scouts.
Hopefully i havent waffled on too much, i havent met most of you before so i suppose this is kind of an introduction into my insanity.
To comment on the list two posts above by sanai, i would say you have far too many snipers, ive seen shrike armies built with 6 squads of ccws and ive seen sniper heavy armies before too.. in my experience neither is particuarly good in practice, you need a little of everything.
to make my army work i started with playing to my strengths, with shrike that meant alpha strikes (first turn assaults), i then went on to include options that would help if i didnt get first turn and ended up with a two part army that is almost as good at defending as attacking.
Before shrike i used to run khan on foot with assault scouts, and was reasonably pleased with him, although having to outflank him nearly every game was a bit annoying.
if it helps this is my current 1750 list:
Shrike (195)
10 scouts (175)
-close combat weapons
-power fist
-combi-melta
10 scouts (200)
-snipers
-Telion
-ML
10 scouts (175)
-bolters
-HB
-fist
10 scout bikes (265)
-3GL
-fist
5 scouts (115)
-fist
-combi-melta
-meltabombs
5 scouts (115)
-fist
-combi-melta
-meltabombs
Land speeder storm (65)
-MM
Land speeder storm (65)
-MM
thunderfire cannon (100)
thunderfire cannon (100)
5 sternguard (counts as command squad) (180)
-2 lascannon
-power fist
1750
as you can see ive kept myself to a strict theme, the sternguard reprisent the tenth command squad (who dont have a banner btw) and shrike is the master of recruits Antilochus.. the only things that dont fit at first are the t-fires, but as they arent company specific (drawn from the armoury) theres no reason why the captain wouldnt requisition them.
Ill swing by a little later, and gladly offer any help building lists or answering questions.
i hope this essay has helped in some way.
take care
Gc08
i was having a boring morning at work and stumbled across this site, as always whenever i see a thread about scouts i jump in feet first.
Its good to see waaanial00 has been here and given you all fair warning about my scout based madness :lol: i swear he gets everywhere.
As for reasoning behind a scout army, there are several things to consider, firstly 40k is not a full war, its a snaposhot into a small section of the battlefield, im pretty sure it describes this in the rulebook somewhere..
a scout army could simply be the forward elements of your army hitting a pre arranged target or something (insert wacky ideas here)
although i havent read it yet im told the latest Ultramarines book; the chapters due, describes the tenth company fighting as a cohesive force, and whats important to remember is that the tenth much like the reserve companies is more than capable of fighting a war on its own, nothing is wasted in a space marine chapter, if they are needed they will be sent.
also i believe someone mentioned it here already but the tenth is the only company not numerically controlled by the codex astartes, it can be small or very large depending on the chapter, as an ultra-lad i suspect we have one of the largest scout companies of the codex chapters.
I always say when asked that if scouts are fighting en masse the captain and command staff will go with them, it would be the same with any other company.
As for models, every single model in my army has been converted to some degree, a couple of the guys here have seen my thunderfire cannons, command squad and typhoon scout speeders.
the latter two dont feature in my main army, i like to experiment with different units and im also big on converting everything to go with my scouts.
Hopefully i havent waffled on too much, i havent met most of you before so i suppose this is kind of an introduction into my insanity.
To comment on the list two posts above by sanai, i would say you have far too many snipers, ive seen shrike armies built with 6 squads of ccws and ive seen sniper heavy armies before too.. in my experience neither is particuarly good in practice, you need a little of everything.
to make my army work i started with playing to my strengths, with shrike that meant alpha strikes (first turn assaults), i then went on to include options that would help if i didnt get first turn and ended up with a two part army that is almost as good at defending as attacking.
Before shrike i used to run khan on foot with assault scouts, and was reasonably pleased with him, although having to outflank him nearly every game was a bit annoying.
if it helps this is my current 1750 list:
Shrike (195)
10 scouts (175)
-close combat weapons
-power fist
-combi-melta
10 scouts (200)
-snipers
-Telion
-ML
10 scouts (175)
-bolters
-HB
-fist
10 scout bikes (265)
-3GL
-fist
5 scouts (115)
-fist
-combi-melta
-meltabombs
5 scouts (115)
-fist
-combi-melta
-meltabombs
Land speeder storm (65)
-MM
Land speeder storm (65)
-MM
thunderfire cannon (100)
thunderfire cannon (100)
5 sternguard (counts as command squad) (180)
-2 lascannon
-power fist
1750
as you can see ive kept myself to a strict theme, the sternguard reprisent the tenth command squad (who dont have a banner btw) and shrike is the master of recruits Antilochus.. the only things that dont fit at first are the t-fires, but as they arent company specific (drawn from the armoury) theres no reason why the captain wouldnt requisition them.
Ill swing by a little later, and gladly offer any help building lists or answering questions.
i hope this essay has helped in some way.
take care
Gc08
Ah good your here right when army lists start being put up to be looked at.
Sanai is the one who mentioned the 10th company numbers not being a stable amount.
As for waffling on I don't think most of the members here mind were all very friendly people and I'm always reading your stuff about scouts over on the B&C whenever I come across it.
As for Waaanial00 being pretty much everywhere what do you expect from a vampire count player we are very good at getting places.
Sanai is the one who mentioned the 10th company numbers not being a stable amount.
As for waffling on I don't think most of the members here mind were all very friendly people and I'm always reading your stuff about scouts over on the B&C whenever I come across it.
As for Waaanial00 being pretty much everywhere what do you expect from a vampire count player we are very good at getting places.
whtdwrf11 said:
Ah i see, i knew he was concentrating on WFB, didnt realise it was VC.
im getting back into WFB this year myself, although i havent settled on an army.
Ive had a long term love affair with wood elves, but the new rules have made them really bad.. still if i can make scouts work
Think it's VC with him running around posting lists and asking advice but then who knows I don't know him personally but I see him around here and there on the forum.
Well hey if you can get scouts to work I'm sure you can get WE working for you and there not too bad what with their dryads and treekin then all there other interesting units also it's not too much doom and gloom for them.
A lot of people I think had knee jerk reactions in a way when 8th hit just takes a complete revamp of list building and tactical thinking to make things work at least when you use some of the older books but also applies to the newer books as well.
Well hey if you can get scouts to work I'm sure you can get WE working for you and there not too bad what with their dryads and treekin then all there other interesting units also it's not too much doom and gloom for them.
A lot of people I think had knee jerk reactions in a way when 8th hit just takes a complete revamp of list building and tactical thinking to make things work at least when you use some of the older books but also applies to the newer books as well.
If i recall WD 98 was when jervis? posted his origins of the legiones astartes, which was the first definitive work on the full range of scout implants, things went from there naturally.. WD156 would have been 1992?, which was the end of rogue trader reign with the 2nd edition rulebooks and codexes being published shortly after.
I cant remember any content from back then, but you have to remember that tactics change in every edition and 5th edition saw a dramatic shift in the creation of training of scouts so any previous material is likely to be 'outdated'
If anyone wants to get the full 'fluff' story on scouts (as defined by 5th ed) ive written several background articles for the B&C, id be happy to link them for you.
I cant remember any content from back then, but you have to remember that tactics change in every edition and 5th edition saw a dramatic shift in the creation of training of scouts so any previous material is likely to be 'outdated'
If anyone wants to get the full 'fluff' story on scouts (as defined by 5th ed) ive written several background articles for the B&C, id be happy to link them for you.
GC you stalk me everywhere! See I have even been bigging you up on non B&C websites. I didnt think you wanted to play WFB because of the magic.
As for me settling on the counts, hells yeah! I have a nice 2400+ point count army. Along with probably 400 points worth of unbuilt stuff.
Hopefully you wont be just taking a "crap in concept" army and spending 18 months fighting against people this time
Will have to natter about Fantasy stuff at ASMOH. I might even be able to meet up with the regulars later in the year.
As for me settling on the counts, hells yeah! I have a nice 2400+ point count army. Along with probably 400 points worth of unbuilt stuff.
Hopefully you wont be just taking a "crap in concept" army and spending 18 months fighting against people this time
Will have to natter about Fantasy stuff at ASMOH. I might even be able to meet up with the regulars later in the year.
yeahwaaanial00 said:
my ego is all the more inflated... thanks mate :lol:it was the biggest detractor tbh, i really loved the models but thought the magic was getting silly.. i still kinda think that, but everyone in my area is giving WFB a go, so i figured why not..
yeah that whole time was alot of funHopefully you wont be just taking a "crap in concept" army and spending 18 months fighting against people this time
ill probably go with WE tbh, stick with your initial choices regardless of power, who knows they may get an update and be uber powerful.Yeah deffo, looking forward to the event, im pretty confident my Mk2 army will be ready by then