WHFB - 7th Standard question

[Sir_Tristam]

Hi, I´m newer in WFB. Yesterday while playing with a friend something happended and I have a question for you.

I had a black knight unit with a character on it but due to combat, only the character, the champion and de standard left in the unit. I lose the combat by 1 and I don't know if remove the champ or the banner because of:

If I remove the champion y lose one extra atack for the next round but take the +1CR for the standard and another +1 because it had the Banner of the Dead Legion.

My friend told me that if I remove the standard, the champion will "keep" the banner so I still have the 2 attacks by the champ and the +2CR for the banner. Is that correct?

Can I chose to remove the champion first than the standard?

Thanks

 

[Vulf von Carstein]

Your friend is not correct. The bonuses for a standard funnily enough only apply if the standard bearer is still alive :lol:

You can chose to remove either the champion or the standard bearer as both are part of the unit, however in most cases it will not really matter as you can use Invocation of Nehek to re-raise command group models along with the rest of the unit in the next magic phase.

In this case however, i would remove the champion. +2 cr is far better than 1 attack

 

[Sir_Tristam]

Thanks Vulf, I wonder also, if is there any "official" answer to that question, in some FAQ or something because I believe you and I'm agree, but my friend is still asking for official suport for your answer.

 

[Netherian Shrina]

I am under the impression from what I have read, that you absolutely have to kill everything else off first before the standard bearer. But then again, I'm not exactly greatest and most reliable informant here.

 

[dabber]

I wonder also, if is there any "official" answer to that question

Of course not. This is GW. Their de-facto policy is to publish badly written rules and not provide rules support. Corporate incompetence regarding game play is so ingrained it's intentional.

The developers have stated they think unclear rules are a good thing. Yet to meet a single customer that agrees....

 

[Geraint]

I can't find anything in the rule book to say who you must remove, which implies that it's entirely your choice. I think that your friend may be (mis?)reading the rule (p.80 in the rulebook) that says "Standard bearers are not normally removed as casualties, as it is assumed that if the standard bearer is killed, another warrior will pick up the banner and take his place." This could be taken to mean that the unit champion would pick up the standard, but the book goes on to say "Therefore, the player always removes an ordinary warrior in preference to a standard bearer" which I think draws a distinction between ordinary warriors picking up the standard and champions doing it. Maybe. Certainly, I've never come across anyone trying to claim that the champion can also carry the standard - they're always treated as two distinct entities when creating an army list.

 

[Sir_Tristam]

Thanks for the answers, It has more sense the way you exlain it.

 

[FigureFour]

I think that your friend may be (mis?)reading the rule (p.80 in the rulebook) that says "Standard bearers are not normally removed as casualties, as it is assumed that if the standard bearer is killed, another warrior will pick up the banner and take his place." This could be taken to mean that the unit champion would pick up the standard, but the book goes on to say "Therefore, the player always removes an ordinary warrior in preference to a standard bearer" which I think draws a distinction between ordinary warriors picking up the standard and champions doing it.

This is correct. Furthermore, it does not say that you may transfer the standard on to an ordinary warrior it says you may remove him instead of the standard bearer.

Even if the rules DO consider a champion to be an "ordinary warrior" it would only allow you to remove him instead of the standard bearer and not remove the standard bearer and give him the standard.

The reason why there is no explicit rule forbidding you from transfering the standard to the champion is because the ability to give the standard to someone else is a made up rule in the first place.

There's no rule saying that you can't simply kick your opponent in the head and declare yourself the winner, but if you did that you'd be cheating and a jerk.

 

[curryoflife]

Maybe in this scenario, the champion is acting as if it were a character and not exactly a rank and file model. Although not explicitly stated (damn you GW) I doubt that the champion would be able to pick up a banner, but that's just me.

 

[Cromenon]

...and even if it actually was a character, it couldn't pick the banner up!

 

[FigureFour]

Maybe in this scenario, the champion is acting as if it were a character and not exactly a rank and file model. Although not explicitly stated (damn you GW) I doubt that the champion would be able to pick up a banner, but that's just me.

They don't need to explicitly state it because NO ONE can "pick the banner up". The rules explicitly state what you can do which is remove a model other than the standar bearer.