Starting vampire counts, what would you suggest?

[jack da greenskin]

**EEeek** Not another one of those threads :/

I am a 40k ork player normally, and am currently working on an imperial guard army. Recently I've been making and painting some zombie guardsmen, to use in a scenario for me and some friends. That set me off thinking about VC, and digging out the white dwarf, downloading the army book and toying with a few lists I now found myself on this site.

Thinking about taking the plunge. It would be my first WHFB army, and I really like the aesthetics. I have also thought about ogres, but apparently they are hard to learn with, with their special rules etc.

So, what would you suggest to a young, dashingly good looking wannabe vampire player? From what I've read grave guard are a good unit, and I want to load up on them. Ghouls for core also. I am going to get my hands a few skellies so I can do some test schemes, but how else would you suggest getting into them? I plan to ask a few of my local VC players aswell, and see what they say. How does the army play? What are the "no brainer" choices in a list, how many models will I need at 2k? How much would I be looking at paying for a 2k army?

One final, added complication. Mantic, and their undead stuff. I really like the models, just as much as I like the GW models, but mantics are a third of the price :| I normally play at a GW store, but do you think it'd be good to go mantic all the way, and find a LGS that will let me use them? I am tempted, especially because of the cost of GW models, and the amount I'd need to field and have spare.

Your opinions would be great, Thanks in advance
Jack.

 

[Cuzzy]

I think your questions are more apropriate in the teachings of abhorash and other strategic discussion places.

As for your questions, I'm not really a VC player but more a VC painter, when building a 2000 pts army you might stock up on a lot of zombies and ghouls. Unless you want more hard hitting grave guard and black knight units, or even some bloodknights.
And you should discuss with the guys working at your GW if they approve a force of mainly mantic figures.

Cheers

 

[ulrik]

Furthermore, DON'T go buy lots of miniatures just yet.

buy just a single box, or even better: lend some vampires from a friend, and paint a few miniatures and try them out small scale first.

a few skirmish battles with small forces will give you a feeling about VC, and whether or not you want to spend all that cash on the army.

 

[Bravo_10]

When I started playing VC, I just cut out cardboard pieces and played a few games just to get a feel for how the army worked. It's kind of frowned upon by a lot of people, but when you're unsure about what to buy, or maybe even unsure about which army you want to use, it's a nice way to try some things out. Only after I had fallen in love with the VC fluff and figured out what works best did I go and buy any models.

 

[Loempiaketzer]

ahhh a new fantasy player.
awesome.
as for choosing armys, and knowing what to play / playstyle there are 100000 ways to look at it. Ive been thinking a LOT about different armys and after collecting about 5 armys for 40-60% and only 2 armys for 100% i can say the following;
- Models, if you like them, you learn to play them. Anything in the book is 'worth it' in this book, me thinks.
For example, bat swarms are possible 1 of the worst choises to get. However, there are some ways ow they can be used. its up to you to make it work.
- playstyle, This is a bit countering the models. if youre more like a close combat masher.. you might need certain units. If youre the more 'magicly enhanced' kind of bloodsucker, you need different models possibly.

as for buying models, i suggest buying a vampire model you really like and buying 1 or 2 rare choises. This will only be 3 to 10 models. You can fall in love with these and the rest of the army will grow arround them.

My trusty varghulf + skeleton standard bearers and i have come a long way since i converted them

so, summing it up.
i think its best to look at what you REALLY like in your VC list modelwise and what your main tactic will be.
Post a list with that background info + models you want in the army in the armylist forums here. and a ton of people will help you out with good lists. either fluffwise or competitive. They know all about it

 

[Annie]

I found the batallion to be a good starting point as its all stuff you're pretty much guarenteed to use at some point and you save a lot of money

 

[Danceman]

I found the batallion to be a good starting point as its all stuff you're pretty much guarenteed to use at some point and you save a lot of money

I disagree... ish!

The value of zombies and the corpse cart in 8th ed is questionable at best... Unless you intend to use the corpse cart as a black coach. Overall though, I do not think it is a particularly good set. You might use it all at some point but when you're fresh to hobby you're going to use "one or the other".

One final, added complication. Mantic, and their undead stuff. I really like the models, just as much as I like the GW models, but mantics are a third of the price eek I normally play at a GW store, but do you think it'd be good to go mantic all the way, and find a LGS that will let me use them? I am tempted, especially because of the cost of GW models, and the amount I'd need to field and have spare.

Certain stores are not as pedantic about this rule. Most of the time though I find this tend to work much better when you at least show some good faith in fielding GW models as well. One have to understand that a GW store isn't just a place to play but a showroom for their minis.

I am more line with Loempaiketzer. Buy some stuff you really like first and have your army evolve from that point onwards. Like, box of skeletons and grave guard + a character or two. Then add a vargulf or whatever rare you like.

When I started playing VC, I just cut out cardboard pieces and played a few games just to get a feel for how the army worked. It's kind of frowned upon by a lot of people, but when you're unsure about what to buy, or maybe even unsure about which army you want to use, it's a nice way to try some things out.

Yepp, I agree. Even if there are some gamers who frown upon this, I'd say its their problem. You're the one who has to pay for the models after all.

 

[Annie]

I disagree... ish!

The value of zombies and the corpse cart in 8th ed is questionable at best... Unless you intend to use the corpse cart as a black coach. Overall though, I do not think it is a particularly good set. You might use it all at some point but when you're fresh to hobby you're going to use "one or the other".

but... everyone loves zombies! :lol:

Seriously though, they are handy to have around, even if its just for Raise Dead

 

[ulrik]

yeah, its defenitly worth basing your army around certain individual cool miniatures.

i started playing undead based on a really cool old necromancer miniature. and got some skeletons too. sometimes i wished i kept my army small, based only around the few units of skeletons, bat swarms and few characters that i really think is cool in my army, rather than fielding units i have no emotional connection too, no matter how good they perform in battle.

 

[Unanswered]

I haven't really seen anyone get chewed out for using mantic's kings of war line, either way i do think the battalion is the best bet, (even though zombies are primarily for comedic value) you can build a small list with those and get a good feel for the army, either way there are plenty of unique fighting styles with vampire counts and as long as you don't mind missing out on a shooting phase (unless you roll a banshee) VC might be right for you

 

[Abbysal]

Hey good looking Jack,

I agree with getting the Battalion and a character first if only for the fact that a nice bunker of 20 kellies would now set you back 31 quid!!
By buying the battalion you get a nice manouverable ghoul unit that you could proxy the zombies in to boost (use the zombies in place of ghouls),that nice 20 strong bunker unit and you save 30 pounds on what you will innevitably buy anyway (everybody uses Zombies, and it's nice to have the choice not to mention a few extra limbs lying around for conversion!).

I also agree that your force should have a good block of GW mini's if only for convenience.

As has been said before start playing some smaller games first and lets face it people are going to have less of a problem with you using some zombies as GG or Wraiths for a little while than you using cut out cardboard.:zombie:

 

[Cuzzy]

You could also think about an army theme, maybe some fluff, and pick the models wich you like and fit your army theme.

 

[montka]

I restarting playing fantasy after a long break - haven't used Counts in eigth. I have a lot of zombies who seem weak in the new book - do they have any uses this ed?

 

[ulrik]

sure they have! if you think zombies are cool, field them! it's all up to you!

sure, they will get smashed to the floor and limbs will be flying, but i guess thats the whole idea about zombies, just as in all those zombie-movies, they are supposed to die in droves and yet there will be even more of them just behind the corner.

on the more serious matter, zombies are really weak and not very competitive. but as tar pits or meat shields protecting your other units they can perform okay, and then you need about 50-100 of them anyways in order to be successful.

 

[Lynks]

Montka you should check out the ongoing thread on "zombie lures" i believe we are making some progress on uses for them

 

[Count Lasombra]

I got my ghouls from mantic.I plan to get their revenant knights as well.Personally,I think GW's skellies/GG look far better.Reaper is a good source of cheap heroes and monsters.
You are gonna want some zombies.IMHO Zombies are vital to a good VC army;I never pay for them....but I always summon them.There have been alot of games where a single raise dead was the difference between me winning OR getting flanked to death.