Strange Martial Practices

[Cela Shyish]

Okay, so I just found my old halberd from a few years ago and gave it a few practice swings to remember it and I noticed a lot of strange habits I picked up through my life because of my circumstances and started analysing it. So first I'll give a bit of background.

I'm the youngest of 5, with my three sisters being the oldest, my brother being second youngest and then there's me, the smallest in every way. So with the youngest of my three sisters being 6 years older than me it meant that they were all busy with things like secondary school or college by the time I was old enough to do anything and by the time I was in my teens they were all either moving out or had already moved out. With my parents at constant war and absent from the house this meant that I had to be raised by my brother and with me liking dolls, dresses and soft music and him liking mud, sports and rock. You can see how this went for awhile. But eventually when my dad taught me how to play chess I started getting interested in strategy and so my brother started showing me books of medieval wars and the like and I got interested, at least it was a common ground. But he was also VERY interested in martial arts and started attending karate lessons early and when he got home he loved to practice on me -_-* but he also started teaching me bits, eventually he moved on to studying martial arts using reference books and him actually caring about me (not that you can tell) and us both getting bullied in school he started teaching me in earnest for the times he wasn't there to protect me.

So in the beginning we started out basic hand to hand fighting, just simple karate, but with me being significantly smaller (you know, 3 years younger, having a tiny appetite and being a girl) I couldn't really handle directly blocking his attacks, but I was a lot more agile so he used his reference books to teach me basic Wing Chun Kung Fu and Tai Chi to allow me to use my speed to my advantage...still couldn't ever beat him but he was obsessive with his training and I did it only as an after thought. Following that our parents bought us Bokkens to practice with on the promise he wouldn't hurt me...which he did...many many times until I was in my teens. But given time with practising kendo we moved on to martial arts like Aikido and Judo to disarm weapons and use in cohesion with our own weapons. But with him having extra range on me from his arm length, I took to using a Jo to keep my distance. This led to him getting a sheathed bokken and practicing Iaido, dodge my thrusts and move in closer than I could wield my weapon, then use drawing strikes to put me down (Which really hurt I might add) so I evolved to using sweeping motions and my own body as a buffer for my Jo to both make up for my lack of physical strength (using the momentum to knock him off balance slightly on a direct hit because of the speed it would come in) and to allow me to constantly be in motion (Thrusts left me off guard and open, whereas sweeps and swings would allow me to constantly put distance between us) Then when I was thirteen and he was sixteen our parents let us have real replica weapons (Okay only the cheap £30 for a set of katana, wakizachi and tanto for my brother and a single £20 cheap tai chi sword for me) So we begun practicing with those, which of course the weight left me tiring a lot quicker but he was fine. Eventually we got more and more varied weapons, so I had a pair of nunchaku, a tai chi sword, a naginata, a yari, a pair of concealed daggers and a halberd by the end, my brother had...wayyyy too much. But I started using the yari first as it was closest to my Jo, but I found the tiny point was almost useless as a slashing weapon (Oh we always managed to stop just shy of a hit when using live weapons to avoid issues with our parents) so I moved on to using a naginata but felt the thrusts were strange (Oh we did have a bit of off time where I used the daggers and nunchaku, just for a bit of a play) so I eventually moved on to a halberd which has a twist in the center where it has a concealed short spear, meaning with one twist I can turn it into an axe and a short spear. But of course such a weapon is REALLY heavy for me (my brother can one-handed wield an odachi so this would be nothing for him, but he is kinda like a hulking brute of a giant) So I came to hold it in a weird stance. Because holding it in front of me with both hands more or less exhausted me on its own I noted the heavy focus of weight on the axe head, being so heavily one sided I adapted that into my style. I'd hold it in my right hand with the lower part of the weapon tucked under my armpit and behind my back with the axe head facing the floor (oh it also does have a spike at the top for thrusting) so with this I would use the initial sweeping swing to bring the back of the weapon forward for my strikes or parries, using my turning motions and constant footwork to keep mobile (Thank you Ballet!) and I'd swap hands after the initial swing to put my left hand at the top near the heavy axe head and my right hand to support from the lower half (This was because being right handed by birth, in order to practice two sword styles I had to train myself to be ambidextrous, but having a LOT more training with my left hand its actually stronger than my right physically) so I'd keep in constant motion which I could tuck the shaft into my side to allow for control, sudden stops or shifts in momentum which would stop me from tiring myself out and given an opportunity I could draw back and slip into an extended thrust to bypass someone's guard (after they were used to trying to deflect sweeps and slashes) and if it came to it with a single twist I could draw out the short spear and use it in a similar way to a main-gauche (I had practice with a rapier and main-gauche but never owned either) Then if that failed I could still use the axe and short spear in an adapted form of ni-ten-ichi-ryu which I also did in smaller spaces to compensate for the size of my weapon. This also meant because I was so familiar with dodging and using my body as a buffer without suffering ill effects I came to give some practice to Qi Gung so I could control damage I received (I have quite a low pain-threshold I admit) then to compensate for my lack of physical strength I came to use a combination of aikido, judo and dim mak to disarm or disable opponents and strike pressure points to stun them. I never really fought outside of practice often and I haven't in years but its funny how long your body can instinctively hold onto the motions and training and I just found it interesting how when looking through my past I could analyze exactly why I reached the fighting style and preferences I did. Its also kinda funny because a guy at work last year was being really mean to someone but the guys were all terrified of him cos he'd beaten them up in the past so when I stepped in, he challenged me to a fight and while everyone was telling me no I told him "Okay then" so he went to grab me, but I just twisted, ducked between his arms and held his body to make him follow through, using his own momentum I made him slam his side into the metal bars that used to hold a soap container. It was so so soooo funny because this "tough guy" chef was beaten up by a random girl with me barely touching him. The manager who really should have disciplined us, when she heard about it, burst out laughing and just told us she wished she'd been there to watch me put him in his place. XD and sorry that was really off on a tangeant and I've been talking FOREVER.

So onto what I actually started this thread for. Since I noticed my own strange developments of fighting styles, I was wondering if anyone else had some stories of how they developed their fighting styles.

Thanks for reading this guys, sorry it went on for soooo long but I really cannot shut up sometimes. ♥

 

[Knight of Dawn]

And I thought I wrote too much...

Anyway, I can not really relate this to fighting as I do not do much of it at present due to time constraints, I can see a similar development during my exercises and, to an extend, my general way of doing things.

I was spending a lot of time in water since I was three and joined a competitive swimming club when I was seven(?). During that time I was a sprinter. I had no idea how to manage longer distances and I just blew everything into those 50-100 meters. Worked alright, but not well. My trainer always told me that my legs are not giving me as much speed as they should.
Then, after nine years, I went abroad (school) for a couple years and started university. During that time I was just as impatient as I was when I was younger. I still could not manage longer work and assignment at uni.
I was doing some fighting during that time as well and as you would expect, I wasn't one to hold back. No grand plan, no tactics, just smack that SOB until he falls down.

That continued until a turning point came. I started to swim again at some point in time. My muscles remembered the motions but my endurance has suffered a lot. At that point I was forced to learn how to distribute my strength and slowly but surely I learned patience. This made massive changes in my life. I started to think more and planned ahead. I started to approach things differently.

Fast forward a bit to where I am right now. Not quite a paragon or patience, but much more calm and serene than I used to be. I found out that I actually preferred long distances over sprinting.
Right now I am a triathlete, slowly but surely working my way up to do the Iron Man at some point in time.
My 40k play style also has changed due to that. For the better.

When looking back, it is quite fun to see the development from an impatient asshole to who I am right now and how my approach to many things has changed. I can imagine that this will affect the way I would fight, but I did not have the time or necessity to try it out just yet. Something I should get on at some point in time.

 

[Cela Shyish]

And I thought I wrote too much...

Anyway, I can not really relate this to fighting as I do not do much of it at present due to time constraints, I can see a similar development during my exercises and, to an extend, my general way of doing things.

I was spending a lot of time in water since I was three and joined a competitive swimming club when I was seven(?). During that time I was a sprinter. I had no idea how to manage longer distances and I just blew everything into those 50-100 meters. Worked alright, but not well. My trainer always told me that my legs are not giving me as much speed as they should.
Then, after nine years, I went abroad (school) for a couple years and started university. During that time I was just as impatient as I was when I was younger. I still could not manage longer work and assignment at uni.
I was doing some fighting during that time as well and as you would expect, I wasn't one to hold back. No grand plan, no tactics, just smack that SOB until he falls down.

That continued until a turning point came. I started to swim again at some point in time. My muscles remembered the motions but my endurance has suffered a lot. At that point I was forced to learn how to distribute my strength and slowly but surely I learned patience. This made massive changes in my life. I started to think more and planned ahead. I started to approach things differently.

Fast forward a bit to where I am right now. Not quite a paragon or patience, but much more calm and serene than I used to be. I found out that I actually preferred long distances over sprinting.
Right now I am a triathlete, slowly but surely working my way up to do the Iron Man at some point in time.
My 40k play style also has changed due to that. For the better.

When looking back, it is quite fun to see the development from an impatient asshole to who I am right now and how my approach to many things has changed. I can imagine that this will affect the way I would fight, but I did not have the time or necessity to try it out just yet. Something I should get on at some point in time.

Well fighting is never really a good thing but martial arts do teach discipline. And I'm glad to hear you've made such a massive improvement to your life from revisiting something in your past It is often these little revelations from looking back at who you were and onto who you are now that can give you the inspiration to better yourself. Its also really great that you can take lessons from one aspect of your life and use it to influence others in a positive manner. Many people I know have a habit of focusing on negatives and as such often carry the wrong lessons over to other parts of their life.

 

[Knight of Dawn]

Focusing on the negatives and materialism is one of the reasons why today's society is full of unhappiness, stress, phobia and mental instability. Why fill yourself with poison when you can be perfectly happy. Alas, not everyone sees it :/

 

[Cela Shyish]

Yup but that is a subject for a different topic I think. Although it is a natural human reaction. Our brains are designed to recall negative events more easily than positive as a means to protect ourselves. This is how aquired phobias work.

 

[hairyjeff]

My field fighting style came about over many years of full-contact re-enactment. Back when I started, if you didn't get knocked down, you didn't go down. Since the level of armour then was almost non existent relative to today, we frequently got hurt. This led to many warriors, particularly the women, fighting faster and faster , often with twin blades. Because of my injuries, I was at a speed disadvantage, so had to work out how to stop my friends, and particularly my wife, beating the crap out of me every battle.I adopted a large varangian style shield, and started using a hand ax with a longer shaft. So I could block effectively, and had slightly more reach than was expected. As the years have passed, old friends and ex-wife have moved out of the scene, and modern armour has become more efficient ( and a lot heavier!) so my style has remained a surprise to those younglings who think they can take out the old greybeard in the leather and ironring torso . Only thing that has changed in the last 40 years is that they seem to fall over a lot easier nowadays!
Off field, as a Martial arts instructor, I have a much calmer approach - unless they want to come in full bore, then I usually just side-step and throw them.
And Crystal, you are right. Fighting, if it is meant seriously, is never a good thing. " The aim of the true Martial Artist should be victory without conflict."

 

[Dragonet]

This is an interesting surprise, thanks for sharing your martial development with such clarity Crystal, and for your extra perspective Knight Of Dawn. I'm a karate man myself, and muscle memory's right at the heart of what I do. I also used to be a sprinter; I developed asthma when I was eight and could never run too far, but I decided in my teens that I couldn't let it hold me back so I started running, first to the end of the road then on to a block; by the time I was sixteen I could run about 10km, and I've maintained that distance ever since. I also had to learn to pace myself, control my breathing and clear my mind. I strongly believe that out bodies have so much to teach us, if we just give them time to!

I'm also renovating my family home, and of all times this evening I found a tuft of red carpet under a gas valve, and for the first time in a decade I remembered we had a red carpet in the lounge once! If I wrote that anywhere else I'd feel a bit silly, but the associated memories that went along with that mean so much to me.

 

[Dragonet]

Hi Jeff, didn't see you there!

 

[Cela Shyish]

My field fighting style came about over many years of full-contact re-enactment. Back when I started, if you didn't get knocked down, you didn't go down. Since the level of armour then was almost non existent relative to today, we frequently got hurt. This led to many warriors, particularly the women, fighting faster and faster , often with twin blades. Because of my injuries, I was at a speed disadvantage, so had to work out how to stop my friends, and particularly my wife, beating the crap out of me every battle.I adopted a large varangian style shield, and started using a hand ax with a longer shaft. So I could block effectively, and had slightly more reach than was expected. As the years have passed, old friends and ex-wife have moved out of the scene, and modern armour has become more efficient ( and a lot heavier!) so my style has remained a surprise to those younglings who think they can take out the old greybeard in the leather and ironring torso . Only thing that has changed in the last 40 years is that they seem to fall over a lot easier nowadays!
Off field, as a Martial arts instructor, I have a much calmer approach - unless they want to come in full bore, then I usually just side-step and throw them.
And Crystal, you are right. Fighting, if it is meant seriously, is never a good thing. " The aim of the true Martial Artist should be victory without conflict."

Wow that sounds really interesting. I had no idea re-enactments could be so rough. But it is very true that with improved equipment people become very complacent, relying on their gear to do all of the work. This is one of the reasons I've never worn Kendo armour when practising. (The other reason being that I hate the restriction it puts on movement) although I can't imagine what it must be like to look back on things after 40 years...or even how much you must have learned in so long. I've only been learning on and off for 13-15 years or so and so far the only person who's been able to beat me in either a fight or practice has been my brother. But I've always tried to resolve conflicts with words anyway. You must have so many stories to tell. I'd love to hear them all sometime

@Dragonet I have seasonal Asthma and I grew up with 2 heavy smokers (The kind that had 20+ cigarettes a day even before I was born) so my lungs have always been kinda weak. So I can fully sympathise with how tough that must have been for you to push yourself so hard and I think I might follow your example with some morning jogs. I'd always resigned myself to never pushing myself too hard with such things (I've always used little cheats like as I mentioned using momentum in practice to avoid actually taxing my body or with dancing I never performed long pieces so it wouldn't show how little stamina I had) And it may be out of place for me to ask this, but out of curiosity do you want to tell us what made the red carpet so significant to you? I'm kinda a sucker for sentimental things.

 

[hairyjeff]

My life stories? Not a chance!!! Most of them are incriminating! For a quick idea of what we do, youtube ' wolin viking and slav festival'. And have a quick look at Battle of Lewes 2014 - see if you can work out which one's me!

 

[Cela Shyish]

My life stories? Not a chance!!! Most of them are incriminating! For a quick idea of what we do, youtube ' wolin viking and slav festival'. And have a quick look at Battle of Lewes 2014 - see if you can work out which one's me!

I'm sure they're not that bad XP and I thought people loved to share interesting stories! I'll have a look later today but yallaaaaa I wanna hear about them! stories are far more fun than videos!

 

[hairyjeff]

1979, Isle of Man Tynwald celebrations. Vikings attacking Saxon village ( we actually built a village!) , Longships of French mercenaries land to relieve the Saxons. So far so good. Unscripted, the Vikings turn on the French, cutting them down in a spectacular frenzy until the last handful reach the village gates. Instead of " Open, open , we bring succour from the KIng of France" , the poor leader screams " LET ME IN, YOU C***S, I'M FU****G FRENCH". Not realising we had a microphone at the gate, and he was clearly heard by 6000 family onlookers! You shouldn't put drunk jeffs in charge of the vikings……….
More will follow!

 

[Cela Shyish]

1979, Isle of Man Tynwald celebrations. Vikings attacking Saxon village ( we actually built a village!) , Longships of French mercenaries land to relieve the Saxons. So far so good. Unscripted, the Vikings turn on the French, cutting them down in a spectacular frenzy until the last handful reach the village gates. Instead of " Open, open , we bring succour from the KIng of France" , the poor leader screams " LET ME IN, YOU C***S, I'M FU****G FRENCH". Not realising we had a microphone at the gate, and he was clearly heard by 6000 family onlookers! You shouldn't put drunk jeffs in charge of the vikings……….
More will follow!

Oh my Nagash! You were the head of the Vikings in a re-enactment and you just "changed history"?! XD Although I burst out laughing from the poor french leader, I can't believe he shouted that in front of so many people...P.s. why were you drunk going into a re-enactment? XP That can't possibly end well

 

[hairyjeff]

History is written by the victors anyway, so minor 'blips' add to the fun. Back then, we were all drunk, at the very least. Nowadays, it is an absolute no, but then we didn't know any better. I once watched 2 guys trying to fight under strobe lights while tripping - it was hilariously bad! The biggest problem for me is trying not to implicate other people in my reminiscences. Some of them have gone on to be quite well known…..

 

[Farmer7574]

@hairyjeff Absolutely hilarious!

 

[Cela Shyish]

I suppose I understand that :\ but as long as you use no names it should be fine. We're not exactly gonna search for these people and try to ruin their lives. But it is very interesting and fun to hear about. I'm trying to remember but I don't think I have any really funny stories on this subject.

 

[hairyjeff]

Well, I'll keep it vague….. in the '80's, filming for the bbc, a young actor was desperate to be 'one of the boys'. He hung around the crew, chatted to the caterers, was generally a really nice guy - earned lots of respect for his attitude. Then he came with us a few weeks later to a show in Wales. We were barbecuing at the camp behind the arena, but found ourselves short of food. Didn't bother me, I'm veg. Anyway , actor says he'll go look for some. Several hours later, we'd forgotten about this , when he turns up, totally off his face, followed by a herd of bloody cows! He had stopped at a nearby pub, got VERY drunk with the locals, and moaned about the lack of shops. One of the boys there , as a joke ( I hope) told him that there were "loads of steaks roaming the hills." So, not thinking it through, he wandered back, opened a field gate, tried and failed to catch a cow(!!!!) then gave up and came back. But forgot to shut the gate. The entire herd followed him back. Imagine the mess thirty plus panicking cows can make of a camp site. In the morning, he explained that he was so wrecked, he thought we'd have been able to slaughter and cook a cow, then hide the body. In fairness, he sorted everything out and made good the damage, but he never came drinking with us again. He was a good archer, though.

 

[Cela Shyish]

That sounds crazy XD I'm surprised no one got hurt o.o and if he opened a field gate doesn't that mean they were on a farm or something? So he accidentally stole a herd of cows?

 

[hairyjeff]

Yeah, that sums it up! One other for today - Again at the Isle of Man, this was nearly dangerous, but it's funny in hindsight. We were landing in 3 longships to act out a raid on a mocked-up church. However, as the tide turned, it became difficult to beach the boats. We decided to see if it was feasible to wade ashore, so one of the warrior women, Gytha, stripped off her armour and slipped over the side; as the sea only came up to her knees , we thought it would be fine. So, fully armed in mail, gambeson, leather torso, sword, shield, great ax, and carrying the banner, I leapt into the sea. 90lb girl in underwear weighs considerably less than 200lb guy in armour. The thin ,sandy crust she stood on collapsed under me, and i sank into the sludge underneath - all they could see was the top of the banner and a stream of bubbles! They quickly got a rope to me and pulled me out, but my great ax and sword are still there, waiting to baffle archaeologists of the future! Seriously, I thought I was gone - the sludge trapped my legs, and I could see the surface above me, but not reach it. Gytha and another girl (Ali) dived in and roped me up, otherwise I wouldn't be laughing about it now.But, if you play risky games, by definition, you take risks. I won't give up until I'm forced to. Remember, old fighters get old for a reason.

 

[Cela Shyish]

Oh my God that's horrible...I'm glad you're ok but that must have been terrifying. I remember being pulled under water once when I was a kid which was terrifying but to actually sink into the sand underneath...You've lived a really dangerous life...

P.s. it reminds me of the song "Old soldiers never die, they only fade away" or more accurately, the WWI parody "Old soldiers never die, the young ones wish they would"

 

[hairyjeff]

Many of the things we do in life seem dangerous to others - some are, but as we perceive them at the time, we often don't realise the risks we are taking. That's how kids get hurt, bikers make fatal mistakes, girls let guys in, and re-enactors make prats of ourselves. bear in mind that I am nearly 60. If I hadn't taken a risky path, how boring would life be? But the risks I take are only suitable for me. We all have to choose our own way, and what is right for some is terror for others.
It's true I've done many stupidly dangerous things, but at the time they didn't seem so. And a lot of them were unintended! Any way, on a lighter note, I won't be around for a few days - work intervenes! Then off to Denmark for a while, and back to Cornwall for a week falling off surfboards!.Gotta keep busy!!

 

[Cela Shyish]

That's fair @hairyjeff I have taken some silly risks myself, not as many as you but I'm only 21 so still time I guess ^.^ anyway I hope you enjoy your holiday, I understand the work issue, right now I'm working 50+ hours per week and been getting increasingly tired and unwell. Socoming on here is actually a lot of what I do with my free time atm, but you likely have some actual important obligations for your time so take care of yourself and I hope to chat again soon. It has been really fun listening to (reading) your stories ^-^

 

[hairyjeff]

Quick check in! Denmark is a blast - the Tivoli is probably the most bonkers park on the planet! When I get back from Cornwall, I'll tell you some more tales! Have a great summer!.

 

[Cela Shyish]

Quick check in! Denmark is a blast - the Tivoli is probably the most bonkers park on the planet! When I get back from Cornwall, I'll tell you some more tales! Have a great summer!.

I'm glad someone is enjoying their summer at least Glad to hear you're enjoying yourself, although now curious as to what makes it so bonkers XD

 

[Dragonet]

Hi Crystal, sorry I haven't made time to reply, there's never enough time to give a considered response...

The red carpet doesn't have any special significance by itself, but it was there on the Christmas Eve when we were in a rush to get to the Christingle service at church and Mum thought I'd broken the gas fire; it was there in the 90s on Saturday afternoons when I was watching Airwolf, Baywatch, A Team, the wrestling, Catchphrase, Blind Date, and eating fish fingers chips and beans; it was there when Mum watched Coronation Street or read the paper and solved her crosswords in the evenings, and when we played Ludo or Scrabble or Monopoly, or unwrapped Christmad presents together.

It seemed pertinent to your original post on muscle memory; in karate the idea is to build these set routines of movement, then to train ourselves to react by default in a set prescribed manner to certain stimuli, ie an opponent's particular attack or movement. I find that I'm forever seeing connections and similarities or equivalences between things: in memories of the past, in music, body movements of all kinds, even people interacting. It's very mundane for the most part; self-explanatory occurrences that don't warrant a second thought, but every now and then there's a rare gem, like a piece of old carpet stuck under a gas valve, that opens the floodgates and completes all the half-forgotten pictures in my head.