Summoning - from a math point of view

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Genesis84

Zombie
Dec 31, 2008
19
Trondheim
Zombies
27
Sorry about if this has been commented on before, but I'm new to the forum, so I'm excused ;) When reading about the Master vampire abilities, there is one thing that strikes me. Given that these abilities gives you the option of increasing your units above the starting size, there is one obvious alternative to this: Creating your units large enough to start with. So I started thinking in what kind of scenarios would it be beneficial to summon forces as you go instead of buying them for points. What I came up with was this

Assumtions
  • You got a total of 45 unused vampire points to spend
  • You allready dominate or tie in magic prowess during your magic phase
  • Usefullness can be measured in points

If this is the case, then you give one of your vampire one of the 15 point master-abilities (raise XXX beyond starting size and +1 on this casting, 15pts), and (potentially another vampire) the Dark Acolyte (+1 wizard level, 30pts) abiliy. This will give an additional power dice in your magic phase since you're one wizard-level higher. With this extra dice, you cast Invocation of Nehek once each turn. Since you allready tie on your opponent in the magic phase, you will have all his dispel dice tied up with dispelling your other more usefull spells, so this will never get dispelled (or your more usefull spells can be cast without interruption, a gain either way). Since you only have one die, the spell will succeed on a 3 or more (remember the +1 on casting), or 2/3 of the times. For each succesfull cast, you will summon D6 new wounds worth of units or on average 3,5 wounds of units. Depending on your choice of mastery you will summon bats, wolves, ghouls or skeletons. Your best choice here is the Fell Bats which is worth 10 points for each wound, second by skeleton w/spear at 9 points for each unit. This all sums up to summoning on average 3.5 * 0.666 * 10 = 23.3333 points worth of units each turn. Given that the cost of this combo only cost 45 points, you'll have a expected net gain allready by turn 2. Even when summoning lesser units like skeletons or ghouls you'll have a net gain by turn 3 - measured in points. Note that you are here only using the extra die you got from increased wizard-level to cast this spell, so you don't loose anything you didn't have before exchanging your units with the abilities.

There is several effects not noted here, but allmost all of them will augment the effect seen here. If your opponent choose to dispel your summoning, then your more expensive spells will have a higher chance of getting cast. You could include a corpse cart in your army which would increase the expected raised units. If you allready had planed to cast invoctaion of nehek, then you now got +1 on casting which would improve your rasing still. If you got 50 points of unused vampire abilities you could choose Master of the Black arts (+2 power dice, 50pts) which would give you extra power dice at the cost of 25 pr dice instead of Dark Acolyte(+1 wiz lvl, 30pts) which costs 30 for each extra die.

So the moral of the story is that if you can keep your choice of summoning regiment and the vampire wielding the chosen powers alive for 3 turns, then it will always be beneficial to remove 45 points of starting units and exchange them for the above vampire ability combo.
 
I see what you are getting at. Everything in warhammer has that same goal, get more points back than you originally invested. Overrun that big phoenix guard unit with your cheap and re-raisable zombies and they have gotten their points back. Some things are even worth sacrificing if you have a good change of getting those points back with intrest later on in the game.

Opponents really should try to stop IoN. Most magic heavy lists have quite small units to start with. If one were to stop the IoN, the units would be easier to kill. I mean, you first want to bump units up to fighting strength and then vanhels them into combat, but if they arent at fighting strength, no vanhels either.

Sure, other spells would go through if opponents didnt save dice for them, but the only game-winning spell I see in the lore of vampires, apart from IoN, is vanhels danse. For that to happen you need to do the above things first, get your units up in numbers.

Often the times I have lost, I have buffed my IoN rolls and my opponent has gotten grips with my units when they are not ready...worth keeping in mind :).
 
It all depends really on what your strategy is. I used to summon a lot of troops but the consensus amongst my enemies is that they fear my attack spells far more then a few extra core rubbish I put on the table. In fact they love it when I summon troops vs. cast offensive magic. I play a lot against Dark Elves, Dwarves and Chaos so the anti-magic ability they can put out is quite impressive.

Therefore, I prefer to sieze the initiative right away and begin attacking my enemies rather then summoning up troops. The damage I can do far outweighs the value of a few extra skellies or fell bats. Also, the spells you get in each game are different. If my level 2 vamp has curse of years then you can bet that each turn I will be using both of his dice and a power dice to cast that spell. If I am feeling really aggressive I just give my regular vamps Forbidden Lore and two powerstones each. This assures me of getting the spell off multiple times. I can sit back and let me enemies come to me, growing old and dying along the way. By the time they reach me I will not need to summon troops since my 120 core skellies, zombies and grave guard will make short work of the survivors.
 
It all depends really on what your strategy is. I used to summon a lot of troops but the consensus amongst my enemies is that they fear my attack spells far more then a few extra core rubbish I put on the table. In fact they love it when I summon troops vs. cast offensive magic. I play a lot against Dark Elves, Dwarves and Chaos so the anti-magic ability they can put out is quite impressive.

Actually, this was my precise point. You don't have to sacrifice any of your offensive spells, since you will only be using extra dice bought from the freed-up points of a few units. After you have created back the units (average of 2-3 rounds), then you can begin using the extra dice for offensive spells or whatever you like. This is a general strategy, and as long as you are in command of your own magic phase, then every single army or strategy will benifit from this.

Mikael.K said:
Opponents really should try to stop IoN. Most magic heavy lists have quite small units to start with. If one were to stop the IoN, the units would be easier to kill. I mean, you first want to bump units up to fighting strength and then vanhels them into combat, but if they arent at fighting strength, no vanhels either.

...

Often the times I have lost, I have buffed my IoN rolls and my opponent has gotten grips with my units when they are not ready...worth keeping in mind :).

Well I guess if your army allready includes some master of <something>, then you would not benefit extra from this (and I suspect all magic-heavy armies do include som master-abilities). But my point is that you will always want to have at least one master of <something> if you've got the points left on your vampires. And again, if you're in control of your own magic phase than this would mean extra summoning. It will not magically cure any flaws of a particualar strategy, summoning armies will still face the flaws of such armies, and offensive armies will still have their own problems. This will rather just give them a subtle boost. A free extra power dice from round 3 and out.
 
In my 2k list, only my lord has the master power since he has the skull staff. Necros with 2 power stones are ideal for casting vanhels and along with the book of arkhan, something should get through. I love the curse of years spell, really powerful spell.

That is actually a quite nice combo darebear, forbidden lore along with 2 power stones :).
 

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