Sunny's Undead Legion List 2500

[The Sun King]

Comments and questions are welcome!

Lords
Vampire Lord: Level 4 Shadow, Red Fury, Quickblood, Talisman of Preservation, Ogre Blade, Dragonhelm, Shield, Heavy Armour
Master Necromancer: Level 3 Lore of Vampires, Dispel Scroll

Hero
Tomb Prince: Armour of Destiny, Shield

Core
50 Skeleton Warriors: FC, Banner of Swiftness, Spears
5 Horse Archers
5 Horse Archers
5 Horse Archers
5 Horse Archers
20 Zombies

Special
38 Grave Guard: FC, Banner of the Barrows, Great Weapons

Rare
Screaming Skull
Screaming Skull
Casket of Souls
Hierotitan

 

[Swoosh]

Where do you plan to place your heroes and lords?

 

[Mangaroca]

GGs seem to have 2 places available

 

[The Sun King]

Thanks for asking! The Vampire Lord goes in the Skeletons which are deployed 10 wide (and I will be casting Mindrazor on them for S10 attacks). The Tomb Prince goes with the Grave Guard so that he confers his WS5 to them (meaning they'll hit most things on 2s). The Necros goes into the Zombie bunker. I then ravage my opponent with magic and skulls and wait for them to cross the board so that they can get a beat down in close combat

 

[Wolf Child]

What is a Hierotitan again Sunny?

 

[estwheadn]

Do the grave guard have great weapons? If not try and swap out that heirotitan for a mortis engine. I think it has more potential to bu.ff your army. The master necro will be at +2 to cast and the graveguard and skellies will get a 6+ regen save. It can also scream into combat. Also if you don't get generate mindrazor or fail to cast it then your skeleton unit goes from being a terrifying hammer unit to a basic tarpit.

 

[The Sun King]

@Wolf Child It is a monster that has a Shem's Burning Gaze and Spirit Leech as bounds spell. It also grants d3 to the casting total of any undead caster within 12" of it!

@estwheadn Yeah, forgot to write that on my GG - I always assume that GG are using GW

 

[estwheadn]

aha yeah that makes sense. I was just going to say that if they dont you should give them great weapons and add a mortis engine so you don't lose out on the parry save but you weren't planning on having it at all anyway lol

 

[Bullhax]

Do the grave guard have great weapons? If not try and swap out that heirotitan for a mortis engine. I think it has more potential to bu.ff your army. The master necro will be at +2 to cast and the graveguard and skellies will get a 6+ regen save. It can also scream into combat. Also if you don't get generate mindrazor or fail to cast it then your skeleton unit goes from being a terrifying hammer unit to a basic tarpit.

I see your point with the ME, and generally I would agree. But the 6++ regen doesn't really help all that much. Only one vamp. caster to use the book. The fact that he has to axe the hierotitan that benefits his shadow caster as well as having some nice bound spells, I don't see the benefits of the ME being better than fx the hierotitan in this specific list (only one LoV caster, no CH's or other stuff with regen)

Great list sunny, Two units that both are powerhouses in their own right. Even without okkams the blender will do loads of damage on his own. A lot of spells and buffs to your magic phase. Really happy to see you without the earthing rod. Look at my boy without his crutches! ;D

 

[Swoosh]

Tahnks for replying So tactics wise, you just hang back. I'm considering using the hierotitan myself. In general he should hang around the caster then I guess? You don't really want him in combat?

 

[Wolf Child]

@Wolf Child It is a monster that has a Shem's Burning Gaze and Spirit Leech as bounds spell. It also grants d3 to the casting total of any undead caster within 12" of it!

Nice..I like the Tomb Princes weapon skill boost to the Gave Guard also,reminds me of the old crown of command.

 

[Seneschal]

On one hand, I know you are a veteran player and you can make the most out of those four scout units to delay the foe.
On the other, let's assume mind razor doesn't go off and you're stuck with a horde of T3 WS2 troops that will bleed more CR than your vampire lord can generate.
I'm really on the fence with this one, mate. I've seen similar lists with the old Arkhan but thOse involved purple suns and snipes in addition to multiple necro knight units and archers.

 

[Swoosh]

On one hand, I know you are a veteran player and you can make the most out of those four scout units to delay the foe.
On the other, let's assume mind razor doesn't go off and you're stuck with a horde of T3 WS2 troops that will bleed more CR than your vampire lord can generate.
I'm really on the fence with this one, mate. I've seen similar lists with the old Arkhan but thOse involved purple suns and snipes in addition to multiple necro knight units and archers.

That was going to be next question. How do you plan to use the scouts?

 

[GDD]

Why horse archers over dogs?

 

[The Sun King]

I love your criticism @Seneschal ! I'm going to revise the list with your points in mind.

I have been on the fence with my Master necro, because I wanted to give him death. But with only three levels I would not be able to count on getting the Sun. However, that was my initial idea.

In the revised list i will be using 50 archers instead of warriors.

Regarding the question about why I chose horse archers over dogs is simply because of their ability to shoot and better movement. Having dogs is a good alternative though, because they count as extra drops.

@Bullhax lol yeah I'm really not comfortable with that unprotected vl

 

[The Sun King]

Updated Undead Legion List
Okay so I'm looking forward to playtesting this. I have taken espcially Sen's criticism into account. The biggest change in this list is that the Skeleton Warriors have been switched for Skeleton Archers. There are several reasons for this; a) The list is a defensive build and being able to shoot at the incoming enemy will benefit me when I get into close combat b) the archers will fight almost as well as warriors and with 30 S10 attacks should be frightening to almost everyone. I'm still not comfortable with not having Purple Sun, but you can only have THAT much magic in one list and I think I need IoN to keep my two main blocks at fighting strength.

Lords
Vampire Lord: Level 4 Shadow, Red Fury, Quickblood, Talisman of Preservation, Ogre Blade, Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armour
Master Necromancer: Level 3 Lore of Vampires, Dispel Scroll

Hero
Tomb Prince: Armour of Destiny, Shield

Core
50 Skeleton Archers: FC
5 Dire Wolves: Doom Wolf
5 Dire Wolves
5 Horse Archers
5 Horse Archers
20 Zombies: Banner

Special
38 Grave Guard: FC, GWs, Banner of the Barrows

Rare
Screaming Skull
Screaming Skull
Casket of Souls
Hierotitan

 

[The Sun King]

Right so @Rawson and I are playing a game today. He will be bringing dwarves and I think I will this updated list. @najo and @Seneschal do you have suggestions for improvements?

 

[Seneschal]

Well mate in my honest opinion, I'd drop the heirotitan as I feel you need something else that can dish out damage like hexies, vargheists or even a varghulf as it can play cleanup after your long range game has done its job. The heirotitan can't really fill that role with its three attacks and bad armor( the vargheists at least will have more wounds).
I don't won't to change the list around too much but I favor horrors over GG. You could take two units of eight for the price if the GG and the prince.

 

[najo]

What type of lists does @Rawson run? He a getting in your face kinda dwarf player or a bring it while I gun you down dwarf player?

I think the list is very tight. Your redirectors and support units are perfect. The main issue is if the points invested in the grave guard are worth it. They are a lot of points for potentially a unit with little damage absorption, especially with only one IoN and no other immediate threats to take heat off them if they advance early. If they hold back, they aren't earning their keep until late in the game.

Help me understand their role and how your friend plays so I can give more specific input.

 

[najo]

Well mate in my honest opinion, I'd drop the heirotitan as I feel you need something else that can dish out damage like hexies, vargheists or even a varghulf as it can play cleanup after your long range game has done its job. The heirotitan can't really fill that role with its three attacks and bad armor( the vargheists at least will have more wounds).
I don't won't to change the list around too much but I favor horrors over GG. You could take two units of eight for the price if the GG and the prince.

Ninja'd by Seneschal!

I disagree with removing the Heriotitan. Honestly I think the Heriotitan is better than the Casket of Souls. With the +d3 to all spells being cast, you get a constant boost on all your spells that actually reduces the chances of miscasting. That +d3 to 2-3 spells ends up being a greater boost than the d3 power dice. The bound spells on the heirotitan give you a snipe spell and burning gaze, both great tools to have and easy to cast. Finally, the titan has S & T 6 and a thunderstomp. My titan took on a unit of 20 nurgle chaos warriors alone last game I played and it killed them all, only taking 2 wounds. The heirotitan is great!

I do completely agree with Seneschal about the grave guard. I was going to suggest either putting those points into Crypt Horrors or a unit of Morghast Harbrginers and then a unit or two of Varghiests. Hexwraiths are good if you don't have to worry about magical artillery. So far, Morghasts have been very dependable when I've used them.

 

[The Sun King]

@Seneschal I see your point, but I need to try the Hierotitan, it looks too good to pass up. I think I agree that CH is better than GG but I wanted to try the the Tomb Prince combo before I disregard my GG totally Should I drop the Catapults for some Hexies or Vargs? They just seem so cheap.

@najo I don't know what list Rawson is bringing as I haven't played his dwarves before. I suppose it will be a gunline thing with massed infantry. Pit of Shades will be nice

In general the objections (my own included) to this list is against the GG. They are very expensive and might not pull their weight. I want to play test them however. I will probably hang back and force the opponent across the board by bombing with magic, catapults and archers.

 

[The Sun King]

Okay, sometimes you have to kill your darlings: (Happy now @Seneschal? )


Lords
Vampire Lord: Level 4 Shadow, Red Fury, Quickblood, Talisman of Preservation, Ogre Blade, Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armour
Master Necromancer: Level 4 Death, Black Periapt

Core
50 Skeleton Archers: FC
5 Dire Wolves: Doom Wolf
5 Dire Wolves
5 Horse Archers
5 Horse Archers
20 Zombies: Banner

Special
8 Crypt Horrors
8 Crypt Horrors

Rare
Screaming Skull
Screaming Skull
Casket of Souls
Hierotitan

Total: 2483

Alternative:
Lords
Vampire Lord: Level 4 Heavens, Red Fury, Forbidden Lore, Talisman of Preservation, Sword of swiftslaying, Potion of Strength, Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armour
Master Necromancer: Level 4 Death, Black Periapt

Core
50 Skeleton Archers: FC
5 Dire Wolves: Doom Wolf
5 Dire Wolves
5 Horse Archers
5 Horse Archers
20 Zombies: Banner

Special
8 Crypt Horrors
3 Vargheists: Champ
3 Vargheists: Champ

Rare
Screaming Skull
Screaming Skull
Casket of Souls
Hierotitan

Total: 2471

 

[najo]

Drop one of those Crypt Horror units for a 4 man unit of Harbingers

 

[Swoosh]

I had a somewhat similar list as you (with GG though) the other day. I guess it all depends how quickly your opponent can cross the board. I played UL v. UL and with that extra move spell TK have, he was in my face turn 2 (he got to go first). Which meant I effectively wasted all my archers and ballista (ballista was taken out by casket).

But if you can delay him across the board with redirectors it might work. From my own (very limited experience) with archers I would try to bring Ptra's Incantation of Righteous Smiting, to give them the extra shots. As they still hit on 5+ that is going to be insane with 50 archers.

Anyways, much good luck to you and I'll be very curious to se how it went for you

 

[Seneschal]

Well, I personally feel the casket is the better choice due to Light of Death as well as it's ability to give you dice when you roll low on Winds but we've had that discussion before so let's agree to disagree.
Najo, I'm curious as to how the nurgle warriors were equipped. Were they using halberds or sword and board?
Also, would you suggest Archai over Harbingers if they didn't put him over the points limit?