Tactica: Black Coaches

[Danceman]

No idea. I dont even know exactly how it will work with the rest of the new army. Kinda early form anything more than a educated guess. It will require a different approach thats for sure given the nature of the way it gains abilities as such the list have to reflect it in a way it definately didnt in our old book.
More durable and potentially alot faster, hit harder and even ethereal it probably will be able to take on greater endevours than it can right now.

As for the when the new book arrive I believe it warrants a new thread so new players dont walk through a full thread of useless info to get to what they´re looking for.

Cheers

 

[N.I.B]

Don't forget it has the Vampire rule. Which really opens up a lot of tactics, screaming down a flank in tandem with Dire Wolves or a Varghulf (if you fluff the impact hits) for instance.

However, I think the most common sight will be a Coach smack down in your center, to reap the benefits of Evocation of Death, and to keep it within the new, shorter Vanhels distance. You don't get any bonus flanks, but you do want to get the charge. And better to have it drain opposing wizards than your own. With the way crumble works and the improved stats of the Coach (more attacks at better WS and S) and the way you can spam Invocations, it's more likely to prevail even when taking on infantry blocks in the front.

Hatred is the single most important ability, and you get it on the second '6', which is a 12 dice leech on average. After that, just send it into (almost) anything.

Killing Blow opens up another tactic - assassination. I'd like to see any Lord on Dragon (or any man-sized character at all) that would fancy a charge from a 4th level Coach - 1D6+1 S5 killing blow autohits on the unit, plus 5 S4 reroll killing blow hits at the model of your choice.

And you can screen it from anything but a WLC and in some cases normal cannons.

IMO, the new Coach is a game-winner.

 

[Raziel]

How exactly does absorption work, I must've heard 2-3 different versions of the damn rule

 

[The Dark Lord Mr Fluffy]

How exactly does absorption work, I must've heard 2-3 different versions of the damn rule

Just to make sure, this is that rule about leeching Power Dice right?
I'm not too sure either.

Topic wise, I had a black coach, only because I liked the model. I never bothered fielding it once, as I can NEVER pass a 5+ ward save.
Ever.


Seriously. :'(

 

[Raziel]

That's the one, I've heard you can donate the dice, that it automatically takes them, and a vague one sounding like you get to roll for each power dice you and your opponent have, but it doesn't take them

 

[manaknight]

I've used it a few times, let me describe its performance:

a) Skaven: not too useful, since their cannon can wipe it out. However, it is much worse to have it destroyed by those bracelets which double the strength of the user.

b) Wood Elves: much better, it can tie units for a long time (since they rarely field units with static CR or banners). Therefore, it fixes skirmishing units until the undead infantry arrives. The only problem is those long exposed flanks, it is the only way it goes down (and it is only two wounds at worst at every turn due to combat resolution), but it gives you time to counterattack and bring the elves to close combat.

c) Lizardmen: the kroxigors are a pain in the *, but otherwise, it performs acceptably driving out skinks and fighting salamanders.

d) Other VC: not bad, but avoid fighting big blocks, even zombies can kill it due to CR.

In fact, I've used it to block shots to other units (such as black knights) and stop mobile units (since it is hard to kill in combat, except due to combat resolution, and charges 16"). Against shooty armies it survives longer than a unit of black knights, but if your opponent fields a cannon then you are very limited (you have to hide behind terrain).

 

[N.I.B]

Tried it against Skaven. It was easily the MVP of the game, sucking dice from a Grey Seer and his Warlocks it was fast to reach the ability roof, terrorizing units and hitting his main block in the rear and kept it in place.

It survived a WLC shot as I made the ward save, another shot was too weak to do anything and a third shot was a misfire, then some Wolves charged the WLC off the table.

 

[Belladamma Voltaire]

I bought mine today so I am looking forward to using it with its new abilities. I am going to be using it in conjunction with 2 blocks of zombies and a unit of skeletons at the centre of my army.

 

[Guillius]

Ok, so I am not sure I understand weather we have reached a conclusion so.... for those of you with the book how do you interpret it? Here is my interpretation:

The dice in the anyone's power pool, and ALL power dice generated by ANY wizard (friend of foe) get rolled. Any 6's get absorbed by the coach and are discarded. The rest go back to their appropriate pools and the rest of the magic phase continues.

 

[thewrathchilde]

Best use for the BC is as a weight to hold your army book/BRB open to whatever page you need the most. This can save you valuable time an dprevetn you having to constantly open the book to find the miscast table or VC Lore page.

I rarely fielded it (only once ever!) before as too many armies could auto-kill it but might have been able to be convinced of its value as a combat multiplier support ranked units by providing damage or negating ranks; now that it can't negate ranks I would rather spend the points elsewhere on something that doesn't give up points as easily or that supports the rest of my army better.

.02,

WC

 

[The Dead of Night]

Well I never used one either, however it seems to me that it is a lot tougher to kill now. I haven't got the book yet so I am mostly ignorant of its powers, but from what I understand:

One of the abilities you can earn with it is "ethereal" meaning that a lot of s7 attacks are completely void once you get this ability.

Another ability is fly? if so you will have increased ability to avoid s7 attacks through increased maneuverability.

it now has a 4+ ward?

Can the summon horde spell be used to heal it? Or can any spell for that matter?

Obviously you can't rely on these abilities, especially early in the game. However along with old abilities like terror and the nice new abilities I can see increased survivability and use for this now.

Don't get me wrong, the inability to negate ranks sucks; but a flying, ethereal, terror causing chariot that can absorb the enemy's power dice could have it's uses.

 

[Guillius]

You CAN use summon horde to heal it but... the coach is considered a vampire hence it can only gain 1 wound per IoN like ability.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

In the new rules it works like this:

During the magic phase roll all the dice from the pool's (yours & opponents) and also all the dice from wizards within 6". If a 6 is rolled a power is gained, first 6 gets No.1 on the list, second 6 gets No.2 and so on.

I can't remember the order of the powers but they are:

Scythes (this is definatley the first one)
Hatred (Wraith & Nightmares)
Magical Resistance (3)
Killing Blow (all hits including impact hits)
Ethereal
Fly

If you have this in a uber magic army and keep all your casters within 6" in your first turn you can power this thing up into a monster

 

[Rafe]

I used one the other day against 3k high elves. I was getting mauled by magic/shooting, and he had a nasty swordmaster unit 20 strong, with Teclis. I got to the stage where I had to either charge them or be charged, but only the coach was able to. So I went in, killed 7 with impact hits. Took no damage from the champ, and cut a further 3 down. They broke, and I chased them down, dispaching 700+ points in one charge. Priceless.

Tactics wise, I keep a couple of vamps within range, as losing the magic dice is a pain, but the gain of getting it charged up as soon as possible is worth it, IMO.

 

[In_Altum]

I'm confused about something. The army book quotes "Roll the dice in the power dice pool, and those generated for any wizard within 6" of a Black Coach." So if I have only one Level 1 wizard in my army and he's within 6" of the Coach, will I be rolling 3 dice [2 for the army, 1 for the lvl 1 wizard] or 4 dice[2 for the army, 1 for the lvl 1 wizard, and 1 because the wizard is next to the Coach]? So my question is, do I roll ALL power dice in the pool, and add extra dice for dice generated by wizards within 6"? Or do I roll all the power dice that I can use that magic phase, plus whatever power dice would be generated by an enemy wizard within 6"? Or is it just rolling the 2 power dice automatically generated for the army, plus power dice generated of friendly and enemy wizards within 6"?

 

[Nedar]

It works as such:

Every magic phase you roll all power dice that are: In the players pool, generated by a wizard within 6".

This is EVERY magic phase and every wizard within 6".

So if you play a skaven with 3 warlocks and you're within 6" of their Grey Seer (I suppose he's a 4, so lets just say he has 4PD of his own). At the beggining of the skaven magic phase the 5 dice in the pool (2 base +1 per lock), any 6's are absorbed, thus unusable and the black coach gains an ability if not maxed out. Then the Grey Seer would roll his 4 dice. Any 6's, again, are unusable in that phase and power up the coach.

Roll each source of dice seperate as you have to keep track of which dice are absorbed.


Keeping it hear my magic heavy start in my current list i'll start off rolling 10 dice on turn one for the coach. 6 from Mannfred, 2 pool, and 2 from my other vamp. The loss of PD isn't a problem if you can get it flying on turn one

 

[In_Altum]

So if you play a skaven with 3 warlocks and you're within 6" of their Grey Seer (I suppose he's a 4, so lets just say he has 4PD of his own). At the beggining of the skaven magic phase the 5 dice in the pool (2 base +1 per lock), any 6's are absorbed, thus unusable and the black coach gains an ability if not maxed out. Then the Grey Seer would roll his 4 dice. Any 6's, again, are unusable in that phase and power up the coach.

Just so I'm clear, are warlocks level 1 wizards? If so, wouldn't the Coach need to be within 6" of each of them to get to roll their power dice? Let's assume the Coach is no where near the Grey Seer, or the warlocks, then how many dice will the player roll? 2, just for the army?

Sorry if I'm grinding this topic into the ground, but I just want to make sure I get it.

Lets say I have an army with just two Necromancers. My overall power dice pool is 4 [2 base, +1 for each Necro]. When The Black Coach is all by itself, during the magic phase, I'll roll two dice, absorbing 6's. If 1 Necro is within 6", then I'll roll 3 dice for that magic phase, and if both are near, then all 4 will be rolled. Am I correct?

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Basically yes, break it down like this:

Every magic phase roll the ALL the dice from your "shared" pool which will be 2 plus any extra dice from magic items, abilities etc.

Roll the ALL dice from your opponents "shared" pool which will be 2 plus any extra deice from magic items, abilities etc.

Roll ALL the dice from any wizards pool that are within 6"

Example:

Your Magic Phase

You have a saved dice form the Black Periapt, you opponent has the normal amount of dispel dice, your Lvl 4 vamp with master of the black arts, a necro and an enemy normal lvl 2 wizard are all within 6" of the coach.
So you roll:
3D6 - your pool
2D6 -opponents pool
6D6 - Vamp
1D6 - Necro
2D6 - Enemy wizard

Every dice that rolls a 6 adds a power and then is discarded, once this is done magic pahse continues as normal.

Now for a question of me: once the Coach has fully powered up does it still absorb dice or does it stop?

 

[Synthesis]

The coach keeps absorbing dice once fully 'charged' but these extra ones don't have any additional effect, they're just eaten.

 

[The Dead of Night]

Okay now I need something cleared up (sorry). In_Altum posted a quote from the rules earlier.

"Roll the dice in the power dice pool, and those generated for any wizard within 6" of a Black Coach."

it specifically states here that you absorb from the power dice pool. So surely this doesn't include your opponents dispell dice? I would interpret this as you absorb your powerdice in your phase and your opponents in his phase. Is there a part of the rules that has been missed out? I haven't got the book, so I appologise if the answer is clear.

 

[Synthesis]

Nope,you were spot on - it's just PD it eats .... so yours in your own turn and your enemy's in his/her turn

 

[The Dead of Night]

Okay thanks, some previous posts confused me on that one.

 

[Deadseed]

Sorry if resurrecting this thread is bad but I have a question. Do you guys think that having a Black Coach in a magic heavy VC army is a good or bad thing? On one hand it will get more powerful more quickly, on the other it will make casting spells a bit more difficult.

 

[Fodderboy]

Sorry if resurrecting this thread is bad but I have a question. Do you guys think that having a Black Coach in a magic heavy VC army is a good or bad thing? On one hand it will get more powerful more quickly, on the other it will make casting spells a bit more difficult.

True, but you can always cluster your casters to get the BC powered up then put in some distance so your PD losses are minimized.

 

[Cpt_Fluffy]

I think it's clearly a good thing in a magic heavy army.

I consider every dice that powers the Coach to have been a spell cast on it (an undispellable 1 dice spell) and from that assumption every step of the upgrade table is well worth the cost of the dice.

Try and keep it close to the main spell caster for the first two turns so that the majority of upgrades are done early on before you take heavy losses that require urgent invocations.

Then, when it's mostly powered, ram that coach into the enemy spellcasters and fill up on their power dice, that's the happy time.