Tactical Discussion: Since our core suck...
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hsnyder said:
The problem is with our characters being so expensive, it's hard to not run at least a mini death star. I had an opponent complain about my 900 point black knight unit saying it was a Death Star, only for me to point out that 500+ of the points in the unit came from my lord. Basically, I wouldn't worry too much about that, it's sort of the nature of the army book to have expensive and powerful units backed up with expendable core. The core redirects and bogs units down so your heavy hitters like your lords, specials, and rares take out one enemy unit at a time. The core is mostly there to buy you time to get through an enemy unit without being counter charged. At least that's how I see it.
Which, by the way, my core consists of 5x5 dogs as chaff, then a a skelly block and zombie chaff. If I want my core skeletons to maybe kill something I throw in a character. It's the only way to get them to kill stuff. They still may not win combat every round but with a character putting out offensive damage you can win the grinding battle since you can just regrow and he can't. Not 100% but it helps give them some versatility against some lists.
My hope at the time of that comment was that through some unconventional army list writing that I hadn't thought of, it would have been possible to build a list including multiple units which could actually kill things. Turns out the only units we have that can kill things reliably on their own are in characters and rare. Which... Is a bit dissapointing, to be honest. But that seems to be the way it is. It seems that you're right. If you put your lord anywhere other than a crappy cheap core unit, it behaves point-denial wise like a deathstar.
This is my new approach after coming 3rd in my last tourney when I should have come in 1st(but politics rearranged who played who)
So for core. I'm going to
-spam a mixture of x10 and x5 sized dire wolf units.
-zombie bunker if I get necro
- then either a unit of 20 gouls, 2units of 10.
I realize everyone on here freaks out at the mention of 20 Gouls or less, but hear me out.
With all my drops I can choose where Gouls go everytime. If my opponent has something all those poison attacks want to chew up.
Ill line it up with that(frost Phoenix )If there is nothing I want them to vs. I hide them in back for point denial.
Thoughts? This will work with my style of play.
So for core. I'm going to
-spam a mixture of x10 and x5 sized dire wolf units.
-zombie bunker if I get necro
- then either a unit of 20 gouls, 2units of 10.
I realize everyone on here freaks out at the mention of 20 Gouls or less, but hear me out.
With all my drops I can choose where Gouls go everytime. If my opponent has something all those poison attacks want to chew up.
Ill line it up with that(frost Phoenix )If there is nothing I want them to vs. I hide them in back for point denial.
Thoughts? This will work with my style of play.
countwuzzy said:
Well, I think you might be overestimating the effectiveness of 20 ghouls.
Also, to take your own example, how exactly do you plan to catch that frost phoenix? It can move 20", flies, and has an average charge range of ~18". Your ghouls can move 8", and have an average charge range of 11". It doesn't matter if you start opposite it or not - you're not catching that phoenix unless it wants to be caught.
Does your army have any Crypt Horrors or Sword & Shield Grave Guard (i.e. anvils)? If so, you could perhaps try using the ghouls for flanking. I'm not sure how effective they'd be, but it seems like a better bet than using them for dubious engagements with monsters that can outmanoeuvre you.
Vipoid said:
Your right of course.
Maybe because my opponent was dumb, but I have had less then 20 gouls kill a Phoenix more then once. With my style of play, there is usually only one exciting combat at a time. I'd assume the frost Phoenix would be drawn to it. Thus I could have my Gouls go to where that combat will be.
There are other candidates for Gouls to kill with poison attacks. And if they die. That's only 200 pts. I'd rather them die then all my elite.
If I go into every game planning on all my core dying. I'm ok with that.
I have huge problems trying to come up with anything I'm totally happy with when trying to make 2400 point armies. Once you've got a vampire, back up caster, a couple of rare pieces and 600 points of core I feel like I'm lacking with the rest of the army so today I thought i'd try and point up dual necromancer army instead. After playing a few ideas I thought it would be a particularly good idea to park 3 wight kings (bsb with silvered steel and one with nightshroud) in a large unit of skeletons with either a couple of banshees or wraiths to make up the front rank. At least this way I feel you can make a hopefully good combat unit with your core allowance. Also no vampire effectively frees up points for a decent sized unit of crypt horrors and maybe something like some vargheists that I've never found the points to be able to field before. Obviously this unit really doesn't want to get flanked but has anyone else tried it and had any success?