Taking a HUGE powerful unit

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Jan 23, 2012
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Zombies
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Okay, so everyone knows about huge deathstar hordes loaded with characters. But have you ever taken this to an extreme level? Aren't VC uniquely positioned as the ideal army to pull this off, as the only undead army with stellar combat troops, who can raise them back easily? Any other army is risking losing their entire army to an unlucky panic check - not VC. Plus having a huge powerful unit mitigates our two weaknesses - we won't be crumbling from losing combat because our might will be focused into this one unit, and we will have the surplus bodies required to make sure there's always some left to raise back. Flanked by two dragons and a Phoenix? Just keep raising and grind them down.

To clarify, I'm talking about something like 70 Grave Guard with the Banner and a Blender Lord, Blender Vamp and Wight King in a 2500 points list. Or a Black Knight Bus... with 40 Knights plus all the characters. Fill the rest of the list with necromancers, wolves, and zombies to get in the way of enemy chaff. More extreme than extreme. Something which you can literally throw an army at, and the army will bounce off. I've found that however many Black Knights I have, it's not enough. 10, 12, 15, they can get ground down and the Lord crumbles. That won't happen with 40 of them. It would be inefficient, but would it also be nigh-unstoppable? What is going to overcome a charge from a black knight blender bus, when the bus has 8 ranks?

I haven't played with VC for a while now so perhaps I'm just going crazy, but it had never occurred to me before to just keep adding to one unit. Why take more than 40 Grave Guard, when you can get another unit instead? The diffence is, 40 Grave Guard + another unit + something else can be picked off, ground down, isolated, delayed, etc etc. 70+, however, just aren't going anywhere. Unless you're up against a gunline, and even then we're probably the army most capable of dealing with that, since we can easily raise the unit back.
 
Yes, this is something which the Black Knight bus overcomes. But even with the Grave Guard, we are one of the few armies which has access to a +movement spell (Vanhels), allowing them to potentially move 16 inches in one turn.
 
I feel that people would divert the unit as much as possible while eliminating easier targets. Gutstars work because they also have leadbelchers, ironblasters and maneaters.
Proxy it up and give it a try, though!
 
Crypt Horrors HORDE!

With anti-chaff support, like Banshees / Hexwraiths / Mortis Engine (1 is mandatory) and Shadow Vampires to get them wounding or Mindrazor near the General.

684 points of pure... horror? of 18 models.

It could work. The other Unit horde-able there left is Vargheists..

hmmm... Vargheist horde... :D
 
Demian said:
Crypt Horrors HORDE!

With anti-chaff support, like Banshees / Hexwraiths / Mortis Engine (1 is mandatory) and Shadow Vampires to get them wounding or Mindrazor near the General.

684 points of pure... horror? of 18 models.

If I had enough models, I'd definitely give this a try.

What I find quite interesting is that 684pts isn't really *that* expensive - especially considering that you won't be adding any characters, magic banners or other upgrades to it. It could even be scary enough to take pressure off your VL/SGK unit.

The downside though is that one purple sun can take out 2/3 of the unit - which is a lot of points t risk losing from one spell.

Still, who doesn't want to field that many crypt horrors at least once? ;)
 
I have to agree 100% with Vipoid.

one 6 diced purple sun and shows over.

However the look on your opponents face when he first lays eyes on it (priceless)
 
That's the issue with Crypt Horrors right now; Death Magic usage is at an all-time high given the prevalence of Nurgle units in Demon lists, and Death was still plenty good before the Meta changed. While Crypts are still plenty good vs. Demons and Elves, and heal fast, they still suffer vs. Armor which is still there (Empire, WOC), and 1 Purple Sun is really all it takes to ruin them. 2x units of 8 is much better for this reason alone.

If you want a Death Star, character death stars with 2-3 Ethereals + Vamp Lord in Skeletons with +1M and Full Command work fine, and the BK Bus is still potent as ever. I don't think anything will help Grave Guard right now unless 9th Edition boosts Infantry in some unknown way.

- Larry
 
Larro said:
That's the issue with Crypt Horrors right now; Death Magic usage is at an all-time high given the prevalence of Nurgle units in Demon lists, and Death was still plenty good before the Meta changed. While Crypts are still plenty good vs. Demons and Elves, and heal fast, they still suffer vs. Armor which is still there (Empire, WOC), and 1 Purple Sun is really all it takes to ruin them. 2x units of 8 is much better for this reason alone.

There's also the fact that a single necromancer can restore up to 5 wounds (assuming Lv4) to a unit of crypt horrors. If you have 1 unit, then you get 5 wounds back. if you have 2 units, then they each get 5 wounds back. Not necessarily a deal-breaker, but bears mentioning.

Larro said:
I don't think anything will help Grave Guard right now unless 9th Edition boosts Infantry in some unknown way.

I think changing killing blow so that it just ignores armour saves, but can affect any unit type would be a help. That way, there might actually be a reason to run them with swords and shields.

But, really, I think most of our infantry is in need of a boost of some kind. It's just most evident with GG because all our core choices are crap in combat (i.e. if you want a combat core unit, you're stuck with ghouls or skeletons), but in special GG are competing with crypt horrors, vargheists, black knights, hexwraiths etc.

As an aside, it would be nice to see some unstable-love in general in the next BRB. I mean, in this one, we have IP, BSBs, steadfast; and items like the Berzerker Sword, Standard of Discipline, Crown of Command etc., which are of no use to armies like VCs and TKs.

So, what do unbreakable/unstable units get? Well, there's no way to prevent unstable wounds and no saves of any kind can be taken against them. Ok.

Any bonus from IP? No
Any bonus from BSB? Barely, and you still have to pay full price.
Any bonus from Steadfast? No.
Any items that only help unstable armies? No.
 
Regarding bonus to IP: just Frenzy checks, Enemy Sighted checks (I hate those with Varghulf... Ld4). Those are no bonus... but rather low Ld values in our army D:

Anyways, wishfull thinking aside, I raise my odds from Crypt horrors:

Vargheist Death Star... Horde!

No need to cause disruption, no need to break Steadfast (because skirmishers won't ever untill enemies have no ranks as well). There are going to be like... 60 attacks total!!!

No Lore of Vampires casters needed here. Pure Shadow magic support from miasma to lower Ini. Even better from Mindrazor. No redirecting them either because they fly!!!

BSB required.
 
Well since the change in 8th to fear and terror being undead has not really been that much of an advantage... If you can call it an advantage now that we have steadfast. :thumbsdown:

Personally a unit with over 50 foot or 30 cav in my eyes is a massive points sink, you could do so much by spending points elsewhere, the only units that should be beyond that are zombie blocks and thats because they are raised.
You have to remember as well your foe will not feed you units on at a time, he will shove a steadfast anvil into your front and get the combo flank, rear, charges he wants to as because you sank so many points into a units, likely 1500+ he will have all the other units ready to go.

I have done this myself to a 80 strong 6 herlad bloodletter horde.
A unit of 15 Inner Circle knights in the rear with a General and Warrior Priest whilst I him them in both flanks at the same time with Steam Tanks.
Took me 3 rounds of combat but they were cut appart very nicely. :thumbsup:
 

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