Tau...?

[Fallen Angel]

Thought of another thing, is the air-burst frag projector worth it? I mean it looks pretty darn good on paper and considering that my two main opponents likely will start IG and Eldar it seem like a pretty solid choice! The question though, how would you represent that one on the model? Is it included in the commander box like the ion blaster?

Also, is it worth paying 30 pts for targeting array on the commander and two body guards? The body guard load-out would probably be plasma and missile pods while the commander will be packing a
ion blaster and airburst projector.

Sorry for all these questions but I've just started reading the 40k rulebook

cheers!

 

[Sanai]

the commander box is like the normal battlesuit box except it comes with 2 metal heads, a metal ion blaster, a metal frag projector and 2 metal systems.
the frag projector looks pretty solid. Will try and get my lil bro to play a game with me to test its effectiveness against my guard. Personally I think anything that is below tank weapon size that can put out a large template is pretty amazing.

 

[uga bug]

Also, is it worth paying 30 pts for targeting array on the commander and two body guards? The body guard load-out would probably be plasma and missile pods while the commander will be packing a
ion blaster and airburst projector.

Personaly I find pathfinders and fire warrior shas'ui with HW target locks and markerlights to be more useful than targeting arrays. I never buy tageting array upgrades for my suits-as thats what markerlights are for. Markerlights are also more versatile.

If you were to have your commander armed for killing light infantry I'd give him a target lock or change the weapon systems on the bodyguards. I think burst cannon/missile pod would sync better with your commander build.


Something that also hasnt been mentioned in this thread is drones-squadrons of drones are incredibly versatile due to their mobility. They are often overlooked meaning they can easily contest objectives or take pot shots at the rear of vehicles.
it also seems kroot havent had a fond word said for them-they are useful, although fragile. Suprisingly a standard kroot squad is more effective in shooting than assault...although load up a squad with hounds and you can chew your way through most combats!

 

[sabastionz]

as a tau player for like 3 years (sadly thanks to my mates large blast heavy army I loose) I need to buy more stuff I have been using the same for like 3 years but... the one unit that takes out tanks and heavy infantry alike, the one unit that I can always rely on is my 3 battle-suits with a commander all armed with plasma rifles and missile pods...

...oh an broadsides they can take out more tanks than you can shake a stick at

hope this helps

edit: oh if you can get there units between 2 units of fire warriors they are gunna get annihilated, 48 str 5 shots is nothing to laugh about even for a squad of termies

 

[Count Darvaleth]

edit: oh if you can get there units between 2 units of fire warriors they are gunna get annihilated, 48 str 5 shots is nothing to laugh about even for a squad of termies

Precisely why I'm taking a high-mobility, heavy firepower army.

Oh, bought the dex yesterday, and have also assembled 12 Fire warriors, one gun drone (the second one had his flying base sacrificed for the commander, his stubby feet would NEVER glue) and a battlesuit commander.

Fire Warriors all with pulse rifles (duh!) and commander with plasma rifle and cyclonic ion blaster simply because it can either scythe down infantry (plasma rifle is multi-purpose here) OR if it needs to it can go for some AP1 hits, and take down terminators and the like (again rifle helps here) so a versatile commander.

It means I have a legal (if restricted) army...woop!

What sort of thing can I be doing tactically at this stage? If I can control such a small number of troops effectively, then larger scale inter-weaving tactics should be piss-easy.

What would you suggest? The army barely reaches 300pts, two units of 6 fire warriors (one with marker drone, both with markerlights on team leaders) and a Shas'el with Plasma Rifle, Cyclonic Ion Blaster, Targetting Array, and Hard-wired Multi-Tracker. Oh, and I think a Stimulant Injector gets me just to 300pts.


I know it's not much, but it will grow... mark my words. :devil2:

 

[Sweeney Todd]

Unfortunately with the onset of codex creep Fire Warriors have become overpriced for what they do. In fact I often see people take only 1 unit of 6, literally the minimum required. That unit then proceeds to spend the whole game hiding in a corner or camping on an objective in your deployment zone. Whether you want to go to that extreme is up to you, just don't overestimate Fire Warriors. Also note that a unit of Kroot to act as speed bump is more or less obligatory.

That aside, the airburst launcher is a meta-dependent weapon. If you literally go against nothing but Marines day in and day out then you can give it a miss. But if you're fortunate to have a more balanced representation of armies in your area then it's good to have. I personally like to have a Commander packing one around.

 

[sabastionz]

Unfortunately with the onset of codex creep Fire Warriors have become overpriced for what they do.

say that to my 1k army with 60 of them
(but to be honest but all i get bar that is a load of battle-suits and a few broadside)


EDIT: oh I don't recommend doing this the only reason i have done this is because i have not bothered to update it since like 2 years ago... but at least when i v.s orks or nids I'm taking out flanks at a time and i was versing a unit of buffed SM unit (I can remember what they were but they had 2+ save and they were with a chapter-master i took them out with 2 units of firewarriors
((with a bit of help of guard) they charged him and finished off the chapter master even the best weapon could not stop him from rolling 6s )

 

[Count Darvaleth]

@ Todd: Yes, it is really a theme I wish to explore. Kroot would just not fit in at all into the list which fluff-wise would be able to conduct a campaign at lightning speeds; everything either mounted in a transport or a battlesuit (Broadsides may be the exception, here!) and no alien races (for now at least).

Essentially a very pro-Tau commander, more so than others, who sees speed as the greatest strength of an army, (for that reason he's not taking Iridum Armour and Kroot! :slapface: ) and so I will represent this accordingly.

Also, in certain map-based campaigns at my GW, you could normally conquer one tile per "turn", if you were mounted in land transports you could take an extra, if you were mounted in fast-moving transports or skimmers (this particular campaign was run when Valkeries were released with the new IG dex) then you could potentially conquer three per turn, and when many were unoccupied this was a great bonus.

You also got an extra Campaign Point per game for having a fully painted army!


I don't think the tactic would be too bad. Using mobility and re-deploying firepower seems to be the Tau strength. I want to use what I am aiming for and adapt my play-style to suit it, (not search for the "uber list" or the "best army" as people seem to these days) and hopefully it won't do too bad.

Although I do see your point. If one day I find my army really, really needs some kind of cheap combat respite sped-bump, I will perhaps through together some Stingwings or maybe even Kroot as suicidal units. [None of that suicide stuff for the Tau, though... ]

 

[uga bug]

Kroot would just not fit in at all into the list which fluff-wise would be able to conduct a campaign at lightning speeds; everything either mounted in a transport or a battlesuit (Broadsides may be the exception, here!) and no alien races (for now at least).

Broadsides and Crisis suits fit in fine- lightning fast hunter cadre deployed via mantas!

If you are going for a very maneuverable force I don't think you'll miss Kroot too much-as they are best suited to defending more static locations, such as other units or objectives.

 

[Sanai]

Personally I think that multi-trackers are an absolute must for all battlesuits. I always thought it was a bit funny having two guns on your battlesuit and only being able to fire one at a time.
As most tau cadres are dropped in via manta, broadsides fit in fine, as they are simply dropped out the back of the manta with the devilfishes and crisis suits.
Stingwings arent really a suicide unit. Kroot arent exactly that either. They excel at ambush tactics and use cover/jungles very well, but yes, they can tie up key enemy units in close combat.
I would advise a hard wired drone controller for your battlesuit teams, to add shield drones (or just gun druns) to your battlesuit units to soak up enemy fire and preserve those precious battlesuits.

 

[sabastionz]

if im honest out of the times i have played using kroot all they have done is soak shots and die in close combat at over 7! points each for no armour save and a weak-ish weapon... i really dont this its worth getting them hopfully in the new dex (if it is coming) i would hope they get a 9+ at least

 

[uga bug]

if im honest out of the times i have played using kroot all they have done is soak shots and die in close combat at over 7! points each for no armour save and a weak-ish weapon... i really dont this its worth getting them hopfully in the new dex (if it is coming) i would hope they get a 9+ at least

Which is what they are useful for! Any shots taken away from your valuable units are worth it.
The armour isnt too much of an issue-just make sure your kroot sit in cover shooting until the enemy assaulters come to them. I'm not saying kroot are good in combat by any means, but I fidn them invaluable, until they meet a flamer....

You hope they get a 9+ what?

 

[Sanai]

They also enable access to kroot hounds and krootox, but I don't have much experience with hounds and krootox so I don't know if they are useful.

 

[Sweeney Todd]

I have severe doubts with the worth of Kroot in CC. Their squishiness is a problem exacerbated by their low Initiative and lack of grenades. Their Initiative is low enough that regardless of whether the enemy is in cover or not, you will still strike after Marines. That means by the time your Kroot can strike you likely won't have much of a squad left. This is the main problem with using Kroot in CC, as while you may think I3 is okay, it is not for a decent CC unit, at least not one that is so fragile. Due to the prevalence of MEQ, the Marine statline is the benchmark you have to compare against for a CC unit to be considered decent. Orks can get by due to sheer numbers and their T4, but Kroot have neither.

This is exactly where Kroothounds come in. Their Initiative allows them to strike before Marines, and they have essentially the same statline bar the ability to shoot. Whether they are worth the monetary cost or the effort to convert is a decision you have to make for yourself, but I believe they are worth considering.

Krootoxen, on the other hand are completely worthless. For reasons unfathomable to myself, they have the same Toughness and lack of save as the regular Kroot. And their higher S is of minimal benefit for a unit where the regular guys are a massive weak point to be capitalized upon in CC. Let's not kid ourselves here, Kroot can't take on vehicles frontally, especially ones that fight back, and the presence of a Krootox or 3 won't change that. And their shooting gun is an inferior clone of the missile pod. Thus, Krootoxen lack a raison d'etre in an actual army list.

Regular Kroot shooting isn't actually too bad. For that low cost you get what essentially amounts to a bolter. It is just that the amount of S5 or higher guns in the Tau army make them look bad by comparison. So that's what I see Kroot as, a unit that should stay alive and add some extra shots, and if need be act as a speed bump.

 

[sabastionz]

You hope they get a 9+ what?

whoops I meant 6+ save

 

[Count Darvaleth]

Kroot do have their uses, and I'm not condemning them as useless; however my army theme will not be seeing any alien races (at least to start with) so I won't be paying all that money for a unit that doesn't fit in the theme and isn't particularly vital to success with the army. :tongue:

 

[TJK1991]

what got me into tau was the nice looking hammerheads and a amazing railgun, my army consisted of mobility lots of it, my reccommendation would be at least 3 piranha's, troops always in devilfish unless you wish to use the hit and run tactic, and battle suits lots and lots of battle suits, i know that this topic is trying to convince you to get into tau, but i dont want you ending up buying an army without knowing the disadvantages of this race, i find them horrible in small point games, there upgrades tend to be expensive, but without there gizmos and nice things, there a brittle unit, they are fast but most races are pretty quick also and close combat is the tau's worst nightmare as obvious as it is, and they have alot of fire power, but sadly they cant outgun necrons and imperial guard, they are a great race, hopefully they will be updated later this year or next year, right now though you would be suffering alot of losses, but if you have alot of patients and if your cleaver, you can win alot games, ive seen it before and they can be a successful race. there a fun army, i hope you dont give up with them like i did

 

[Fallen Angel]

Got another question for the experienced tau players; How do you arm your piranhas? Fusion blaster or burst cannon? also, would it be a good idea to mount one or two seekers on them?

 

[Count Darvaleth]

Got another question for the experienced tau players; How do you arm your piranhas? Fusion blaster or burst cannon? also, would it be a good idea to mount one or two seekers on them?

Well, purely from my experience on the internet and facing against Tau, burst-cannon piranahs are poo. They are built to be fast-moving tank-hunters; fusion blaster. But Seeker missiles? I'd never bother with them really, they use your already finite amount of markerlights...

Unless somebody now comes on and flames what I've said and provides an epic counter-argument, I will not be fielding piranhas with anything except fusion blasters either.

 

[uga bug]

How do you arm your piranhas? Fusion blaster or burst cannon? also, would it be a good idea to mount one or two seekers on them?

Well, purely from my experience on the internet and facing against Tau, burst-cannon piranahs are poo. They are built to be fast-moving tank-hunters; fusion blaster. But Seeker missiles? I'd never bother with them really, they use your already finite amount of markerlights...

I see no effectvie use of piranhas in any role. They are just too costly for what they bring to the table. The only real thing piranhas have going for them is speed...with the mobility of battlesuits and other vehicles it isnt too much of a bonus, nor does it fill any particular gap in tactics.

A single burst cannon on a piranha ia gonig to achieve very little-for the same cost you could get a fairly good battlesuit or 6 firewarriors. Both of which provide more firepower.
If you have a fusion blaster you either need markerlight hits and/or a targeting array upgrade to get a reliable hit. If you go for a TA, then thats the same points as a basic broadside. Now what would you prefer-a twin linked railgun or a measly fusion blaster?

Also Count Darvaleth said your markerlights are needed elsewhere-i.e with your battlesuits.

The only other use of a piranha could be to contest an objective late game. Personally I use a squad of drones to float about all game and achieve this if they survive by the end.

In short dont take a piranha if you have a choice! If you do take one upgrade it with a TA to make it more reliable with its shooting.

 

[Count Darvaleth]

Yeah, essentially, if you must take them use FB. Otherwise, leave 'em at home.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Alright, thanks! I will take a piranha, or even two! Seriously, they look ace! Although I can understand why people don't take them from a tactical POV.

Second Q,
Is stealth teams worth taking? I really like those models too but I think I can live without them. Without knowing too much about 40k I really don't see the point in the stealth armour, I mean, the average spotting distance should be 21, which means that I have to keep them far away if I want them not to be spotted.. Seems that a crisis team would provide more bang for the buck..

are there any use for stealth teams? or are they just DOA?

 

[Bishop]

I used to love taking my Stealth team, back when I played Tau... that was not in the current edition though. Someone else would be better qualified to answer how they play under the current ruleset.

 

[Count Darvaleth]

Stealth teams take up Elite spots, don't they? Well, there's your answer: no stealth teams.

Crisis teams are just better in every way. Heck, I can live without a stealth field. Why dodge the enemy when you can just blast them into oblivion anyway? :tongue:

 

[uga bug]

I mean, the average spotting distance should be 21, which means that I have to keep them far away if I want them not to be spotted..

You hit the nail on the head with that statment. 21" average spotting distance 18" range...yea crisis suits are better!
-having said that I've never used stealth teams, but on prinicple again I wouldnt use them.

Goig back to the piranha discussion the one time I'd love to use them is in an apocalypse game and have loads of them; it'd be great fun.