THE BLOODLINE LEGACIES PROJECT

[Uziel]

Fixed Blood Knigst slightly

+1 Ws, Kastellan has 4 A, increased point cost by +2 pts.

With Choas Chosen and Sword masters having Ws 6, I felt this can be justified, especially since the Blood Dragon characters has such high WS.

Working on the "Warrior Hermit", which essentially is 3 different characters in one, "The Lone Swordsman", "The Assassin" and the "Ordo Draconis Free Lance". These will count as characters, but will have to move alone much like monsters in the game (i.e never joining units).

 

[Zhatan]

Vorag the Ghoul King as Strigoi
Melkhior as Necarch

 

[Uziel]

Vorag the Ghoul King as Strigoi
Melkhior as Necarch

Vorag is a possibility for sure, but I'm more uncertain about bringing Melkhior back. Never liked the old model, so if I do bring him back, he's probably going to have to be replaced with some other necrarch model on foot (or on a nightmare). I do like the insanity part though, and that could go very well with the more "insane scientist" angle I'm going for on the necrarchs.

Thanks for the feedback Zhatan. Appreciate as always

 

[Uziel]

In thailand here, so the project is on hold for the time being. I'm also awaiting the arrival of the offical new book in january, to see what changes GW has come up with.

 

[Uziel]

A small update on the project:

Ok, so now we know what new models we are getting, and offcourse these will all be incorporated into the Bloodline Legacies project as well, although because of the modified army concept, there needs to be some modifications from the 8.ed VC book consept both as far as units go, as well as how spells etc balance work.

Some thoughts and ideas are:

-Vampires can not benefit from the Lore ability of the 8.ed book, as this healing, combined with Bloodthirst and Immortal will make them much too good. Not sure how to handle this yet, but I might let only Undead be allowed to be healed with this spell (or necromancers perhaps).

-GW did what I was really hoping that they wouldn't do, and that was to make Skellies/Zombies retain their far below average fighting potential, and introduced a whole host of new Speacial/Rare options to "fix" this... As this is not the way I wan't the list to work, rather my aim is a more fluffy Horde-type army (that is intimidating in itself), with a bit more focus on the horror aspect of the walking dead. It also seems like they have gone for magic combined with it being easier to raise more models, to "fix" how poor our core is, and I don't really like the idea that we HAVE TO buy expensive spell casters for our core to be decent. It costs too much, and it is to unreliable (miscast anyone), as well as it really disfavours the weaker Bloodlines as far as magic goes.
I'm not saying that GW's philosophy might not work, but as far as I'm concerned for this project, it becomes much too good to both get better Core, and retain the what I expect to be a powerful raise/re-raise dead option.. Some balance must be struck here for the list to work.

-With the new Vargheist models, I'm considering letting the Varghulf model to represent a monstrous Strigoi Lord, which would also allow him to join them (assuming that the "wings" on the Varghulf model would allow him to fly in this case... Just a thought at this stage though...

-Not overly impressed with what Iv'e seen as far as Bloodline Powers and Magic Items go so far. I miss some of the more iconic/classic ones, but I am considering making 2-3 unique items for each bloodline, much in the same way as the Bloodline specific Vampiric Powers already proposed for the project..

-Considering swapping the Bloodthirst special rule for the hungering one, but at first glance the Hungering special rule seems a bit "weak". I'd rather have vampires better at healing through blood, rather than through magic, as it fits the fluff much better, and I also wan't the majority of Vampires for this project to be more in the middle of the action, not hiding amongst a handful of skellies behind the main line (necrarchs is the approved exception here).

-Zombie Dragon might be available as a seperate monster (to replace the Varghulf in the Rare section) if I decide to make him more of a Strigoi Lord-type beast. There will be some new Special/Rare choices for each seperate Bloodline in the project, but I still want some "general" ones available for most bloodlines...

-Some of the new units introduced will somewhat limited to specific Bloodlines, first and foremost to prevent too many /Special/Rare oprions becomming available to each Bloodline. This will also help out as far as the Bloodlines becoming tactically different from one another, as well as help shape the Bloodline thmed armies a bit more. The Vargheist for example, will first and foremost be a Strigoi unit, but I might also allow the Von Caarsteins to use them depending on how things balance out.

-The Black Knights and the Hexwraiths are going to be as is I think. It didn't specify on the GW homepage, but I assume that Barding is an option still.. If the Ethereal Steed rule is stil there, I might removethat, and instead perhaps grant the Von Carsteins the option of Full Plate or something similar. The Hexwraith will stay as in the book for sure.

-I'm considering using the monstrous infantry "ghoul-things" for a necrarch lab-experiment type unit instead. The "monstrous-ghoul" idea was not really a big hit in my book from a fluff perspective.

-Not really sure how I'll deal with Necromancers from a balance standpoint at this stage, but I don't want them to take the focus away from the Vampires themselves , except when it is justified (such as when Kemmler is used). One of my more ambitious ideas was to leave the Lore of Vampires for Vampires only, and then create a pure "Necromancy" spell Lore (briging back Hand of Dust for one thing) for the Necromancers /and possibly Necrarch) to use.. Not going to decide this before I've read the new book etc though..

This was just some updates for those interested, as well as notes for myself (I tend to forget) for future reference.

As always, any thoughts and feedback are always welcome.

Happy New Year Everyone!

 

[Uziel]

I's been a while since I've given some comments on general progress and so forth, and what I'm working (or brooding on) at the moment. So, for an overdue update:

-First off, the first two special character's are "done" and posted. By done, I mean that the fluff part is not finished, but will be posted later. This includes new rules for Mannfred, and a new Von Carstein special character, Bernhard -Captain of the Black Guard.

-The Vampiric Powers section for the Bloodline Legacies project was fixed up. I decided to keep some of the powers as they are in 8.ed, but some were shifted so that they are now exclusive to only one bloodline.
Ther are lots of new powers however, some 15-16 common ones, and then 3 that are exclusive to each bloodline (15 more in total).

-Updated some of the Bloodline Vampires themselves, such as the Necrarchs, the Strigoi and the Von Carsteins.

-Crypt Ghouls were re-written to have a bit of a new function in this army list. They are designed to have a very good synergy with the Strigoi. Considering a Strigoi only upgrade for them.

-The Zombie Horde was updated (again). What I've tried to do, is to make them have better synergy with the rest of the army (i.e NOT casing them to become such a huge liability when fighting alongside other units). They are now slightly better vs. S3 enemies, but against S4 enemies they are soon overwhelmed. They also have WS 2, so that FEAR is more of an issue when facing them. They are the stereotypcial horror monster after all..

-Skeleton Warriors are done. Ther is now a Lahmia only upgrade option for them as well. I'am considering dropping their cost from 6-5 points, even though the 8.ed ones cost 5 points and are slightly sub-par. Not entirely decided what I'll do as far as "master necromancers" go yet, and this offcourse affects how effective IoN will be and so on. This is a balance that I'm working with, but I don't like it whan we are "forced" to have a lvl 4 necromancer along, just to get our army to function in the first place. I quite resent that..

-The Army Special rules were re-written, and have been posted. Had to fix some things due to 8.ed changing things up as well.

-Necrarch Abomminations were posted, a new unit of monstrous Infantry. I really didn't like the fluff or the rules for the new Crypt Horrors, but the models themselves fit almost perfectly for my purpose. I was originally considering using the butcher model from the ogre kingdoms for this role, but now that's thankfully not needed.

-Made a Von Carstein only upgrade for Dire Wolves. I also gave Dire wolves a general upgrade. I think they fit better in a Von Carstein army than in any other, and they are now the only ones that can have a Doom Wolf leading the Dire Wolves. He is a lot better than before though...

-The Spells and Magic items from the 8.ed VC book is going to be used as is, but there will be added some more Bloodline Speciafic Magic items as well, about 2-3 for each Bloodline.

-I'm considering adding a maximum number of models added (distributed over several units) for each successful casting of IoN. It is clear that in larger games, MORE NECROMANCERS EACH affecting MORE units for each casting can soon spiral out of control.. Not a big issue though, as most people don't have that many models after all..

All in all, there has been a lot of things to consider after the introduction of the 8.ed book, things to balance out and a lot of things had to be re-done, but now I feel I'm starting to make some progress again.

 

[Uziel]

Just a small update:

-Been working on various stuff, as ther was a lot to do as far as re-evaluating and changing some stuff her and there to alignt more with the 8.ed VC book, and particularly the spells, magic items and so on.

-Red Fury was modified some what. It is a bit of a key issue to get the balance of this power right for the project, as I don't want the potential "Lord-Konrad" ruining the blance of the list. The list will have a stronger, more dynamic Core section, but this has to come at an overall price, and this power seemed like a natural place to start.

-Updated Crypt Ghouls, or gave them a Strigoi only upgrade.

-Graveguard are going to be based on the 8.ed ones, but the Von Carstein's are going to get a Drakenhof Guard Upgrade. What I am considering, is to grant them magical weapons (since just killing blow is now the norm) and some sort of new armpur option.
I don't like that Full Plate is given away willy-nilly to non empire armies (as that is one of their unique bonuses, and it diminished them if it becomes to commonly found in other lists). I' am considering giving them a Specia Heavy armour, covered in runes and sigils, having drawn upon the dark magic at castle Drakenhof for cenuries, granting them a 5+ armour save, and a 6+ Ward Save (which can be combined with the parry rule).
This would grant them something a bit unique, allow the Full Plate to stay solely in empire hands, and aslo encourage the Hand Weapon & Shield option a bit more on Grav Guards as well..

-The actual Army list is coming along, and it won't be too long before it is posted. It will give a pretty good idea how the separation of the Bloodlines will affect army set-ups etc. It is going o be much more flexible than the Bloodline lists of 6the ed, yet still each one will be rather unique. One of the things i've done is to implement Upgrade options for certain units for certain Bloodlines, thus encouraging the use of said unit a bit, instead of imposing a host of limitations.
In addition to this, a lot of the Vampiric Powers that come as a default with each Bloodline work better in synergy with some units than others etc.

 

[Uziel]

Grave Guards have been updated.

Lahmian Handmaidens have been updated, but mostly just edited their presentation so to speak.

Fixed The Dire Wolves and the Fell Bats. Rediced their roughness, but gave them the Dead Flesh (3) speacial rule to compensate. They are technically "zombies" after all..

Did some small changes to the Von Carstein and the Necrarch Vampires. Changed the Lore of Death to Lore of Heavens for the Von Carsteins (so they now have Vampires, Beasts and Heavens, more in line with the traditional Vampire fluff). The Necrarch is the only bloodline which can now have a Thrall as a LvL 3 Wizard..

Otherwise, things have slowed down a bit here, as I've started to involve myself with the Legion of Nagash project as well, something which obviously also takes some time, especially as that is more of a co-op deal under DoN's guidance.
I'll still continue with the Bloodline Legacies project however, but I imagine there is not such a big enthusiasm for such a thing at the moment, the 8ed VC book being so fresh and all...

 

[Uziel]

Added a new special character to the Special Character post for the project, Anastasia -the Crimson Bride.

Also added a couple of links to pictures of models I've based Victor Von Carstein and Anastasia on.

 

[Uziel]

Updated the Blood Knights

-added the Flag of Blood Keep (a slightly modified version)
-fixed the fluff a little bit
-generally tidied up things here and there, especially in the actual army list part

 

[Uziel]

Updated the Varghulf

-added the Krudenwald fiend as a Strigoi only opgrade

Updated the Special Characters for the project

-Added Walach -Grand MAster of the Ordo Draconis

 

[The Dread King]

Can these "Drakenhof Guard" have the Drakenhof banner? I don't want to see broken hordes of grave guard, but the good old 'hof has to rise again.
Helm of Commandment for Lahmians? "An ancient artefact of Lahmia..." it says that in the description. Again, I don't want to see broken hordes of grave guard, but I think that these two things should be brought back in some shape or form.

 

[Uziel]

The Drakenhof Banner is being considered as an option yes, BUT I'm going for totally new rules for it as I don't want to have the regeneration option as that was one of the reasons why the 7.ed lists all looked the same, and one would also have to consider the stackable effect of the Mortis Engine now in 8.ed.
Add to this the increased re-raising potential on the Grave Guards, this combination would send us right back to 7.ed so to speak, and I really don't wan't to see the broken hordes of GG dominate this list (which is partly why I've added a Unit size of 10-30 on Grave Guards).
I do agree that it is strange that the prideful Von Carsteins don't have their own battle standard, and that the Drakenhod Banner needs to return, if in name only.

Helm of Commandment will not make a return in this list, but there is a Vampiric Power (see the Vampiric Powers thread for the Bloodline Legacies project) with a somewhat similar effect though, although far more limiting and balanced.
There will be some Lahmian artifacts btw, one will be the Asp Bow, but I'm undivided about the rest. I'm considering re-writing the Dagger of Jet for them though.

I'm generally thinking 2-3 unique artifacts for each bloodline, on top of the 10 available for all in the 8.ed book.

 

[Thorin Hubertson]

Vorag the Ghoul King as Strigoi
Melkhior as Necarch

Apart from Ushoran himself, Vorag is the only named Strigoi I ever heard of, so he is the first choice that comes to mind.

For the hero character, may be a special character without a name, somehow like the named "Lord of the Ring"-Ringwraiths? He could be that old (or crazy) that he forgot his own name or even the ability to speak, so something like "Ancient Vargh-Baron of the sad hills" or something like that, with increased strength, toughness, attacks, but lower fighting skill and massive lower leadership and some special rules for Varghulfs and Vargheists (maybe allowing more units of this kind, possibly Vargheists as non-compulsory core choice or Varghulfs with the old "two for one" rule, making it possible to buy two Varghulfs per rare-choice and so having up to four Varghulfs in a 2,000-points-army).

edit: just saw that there are already named Strigoi-characters in the pipeline, so the idea for an unnamed character is settled. May be the suggested ideas for the rules are helpful.

 

[Uziel]

Thorin H:

Thanks for taking an interest. all help/feedback is most welcome.

Vorag will not be used, as one of the basic ideas for this project is to have only Vampires existing at present time in the old world timeline. If Vorag is the only Strigoi apart from ushoran that you have heard of, I suggests you take a second look at the 7.ed book again, and if you have access to it, the "Night's Dark Masters" book for Wthe 2.ed Warhammer Roleplaying game. This is where I got them from.

Varghulfs and Vargheists will be a big part of a Strigoi list. There is even a Varghulf upgrade option available for them only, the "Krudenwald Fiend". Vargheists will be a Von Carstein/Strigoi unit only.
The Strigoi will also be the one bloodline that can actually use Ghouls effectively in the main battle line (see rules for Strigoi Vampires/Crypt Ghouls in the Necrarch's Workshop Section).

I'm getting closer to releasing the actual army list itself, which will give a much clearer perspective of how the introduction of the Bloodlines will affect the list as a whole.

 

[Uziel]

Added 3 new units to the army over the last few days

-Bound Zombie Dragon -Necrarch only
-Sylvanian Militia -Von Carstein only
-Strigoi Court -Strigoi only...

 

[Uziel]

added Urzen the Unrelenting to the special characters thread for the project. He is something as unique as a winged monstrous infantry vampire character, and a pretty fearsome one to boot...

 

[Thorin Hubertson]

RE: Uziel's "Bloodline Legacies" Project

Changed the Spirit Host into a Rare option.

So far, here is an overview of the army list:
...
...
This is the overview so far at least. Note that I do aim to include whatever units that comes along in the 8.ed book as well, so there wil be plenty of options for diverse armies, even within the framework of bloodlines.

Wraiths are included in the armybook as a rare choice (unit) as well as a hero choice (character).
Keeping in mind, how they are described in the background (Necromancers who prolonged their lives a little bit too long), the hero choice would perfectly represent a Necrach Vampire's failed human student, who was not granted the blood kiss --> as a hero choice, would make a good "Necrach only" choice. Maybe as an former enslaved Necromancer to Von Carstein and Strigoi, too, but not Lahmia (not stylish enough) and not Blood Dragons (with no body, not really a honourable fighter).

 

[Uziel]

The reason why I have removed Wraiths as a rare unit in the project, is because I've decided to give the Spirit Host more of a "dominant" position in the list, because there will be more new Rare options added to the list overall, and if you really wish too, you can make such a unit by selecting them as characters in the first place.

In this project, you will be limited to 1 Lord option, or two in a Great Army (which is the only instance when you can go for the Necromancer Lords as a Second Lord option). You can however use what remains of the 25% Lord slot, and use this towards having slightly more Heroes (wraiths if you will).

I will not limit Wraiths too much however, as butting too strong limitations on all the Bloodlines, will make all the "lesser" Bloodline armies look pretty much the same, and you will have to have substantially more models to test it out as well. Each Bloodline will have the same Core section, a few variations from the "common" list in the Special Section, and each one will have their own separate Rare list (with a total of units much bigger than today's list, but divided up among the various Bloodlines).
In general, Instead of imposing too many restrictions, I have chosen to include tempting upgrade options exclusive to one bloodline or another to the various kinds of units, which will "encourage" you to create a more fluffy army, but it won't restrict you as the old list in the 6.ed book did. The same goes for Vampiric powers, and also magical items in the list.
I'm trying to add just enough so that there are some true diversity, but not by including too much so that this alternate VC list becomes that much more powerful than the current VC one. That said, the 8.ed VC book is much easier to work with than the 7.ed one from a balance perspective.
You are correct that a Wraith is not an honorable fighter, but neither is a Banshee for that matter, or other ethereal's overall. The Red Duke really didn't mind using Banshees etc, so I'll leave the degree of "honourable" a little bit in the hands of the player in this case.

 

[Uziel]

-Posted 3 of the 5 actual army lists, the Von Carsteins, the Blood Dragons, and the Strigoi.

-The Necrarch and the Lahmians still need some work before I post them.

-The Blood Dragons and the Strigoi lists could still use one more magical item each, suggestions are welcome.

-Posted the Skull Chukka unit entry yesterday.

 

[Uziel]

In the process of moving all my various Bloodline Legacies threads (units, rules, etc) to this thread: https://www.vampirecounts.net/Thread-The-Bloodline-Legacies-Army-List It is going to take some time before this is all done, but in the end, it is going to make it much easier to get a better picture of the whole project overall.

 

[Thorin Hubertson]

-Posted 3 of the 5 actual army lists, the Von Carsteins, the Blood Dragons, and the Strigoi.

-The Necrarch and the Lahmians still need some work before I post them.

-The Blood Dragons and the Strigoi lists could still use one more magical item each, suggestions are welcome.

-Posted the Skull Chukka unit entry yesterday.

I've got two suggestions, 'ere we go:

(Blood Dragons)
Blade of the Retired Master
This sword has passed through generations of Blood Dragons, its current bearer being the fourth to have it in his possession (apart from one halfling thief, who did not get far - but that's another story).
The former three owners were masters in their own right, each one having specialiced in another form of sword combat; every one of them finally overcame his bloodthirst by killing a dragon and subsequently passing the sword to his most promising apprentice.
The sword is glowing in a subtle light, just as it was somehow alive. It has taken the colour of dragonblood. Among the Blood Knights there is a whispering, that the sword has learned something from every of its former bearers, supporting its current owner with their skills, just as a teacher would do.

Rules:
Roll a D6 every turn;
1 pary - enemy must reroll successfull 'to-hit'-rolls
2-4 weak spot - Vampire may reroll 'to-wound'-rolls
5-6 critical hit - causes D3 wounds per hit.

cost = ? (30-40 points?)

(Strigoi)
Necklace of focus
This necklace was forged around the Strigoi's neck when he was caught and put into another vampire's dungeon years ago, for 'later use'. His mind, already on the brink of madness, was further disrupted by this experience, but in one night some years ago, when a double-tailed comet lighted the dark night, he managed to focus himself on his then present situation and to free himself. He did not manage to get rid off the necklace (which was strenghtened by magic), but he has learned to make good use of it.
The necklace seems to soak up magical energies, but more importantly it helps him to ignore his anger and act as if he was a real general - for a short time at least.

Rules:
-the Necklace grants magic resistance (2)
-furthermore, once per game the strigoi player may declare that the vampire uses the might of the necklace, giving him leadership 10 for one turn.

points: around 50?

edit - corrected some typos

 

[Uziel]

Thorin Hubertson:

For the Blood Dragons, there are already two weapon options, so I'm not sure if I want the third one to be one as well.. I was considering the "Chalice of Blood Keep" since Walach no longer has it on his person. Not sure yet. I might decide to make the Blood Dragons only get Magic Weapons for their Bloodline items, but I haven't decided if this is an overall good idea yet..

The Necklace is certainly an option. Not sure if I like the LD 10 option, as it goes a long way towards cancelling the Leadership weakness of the strigoi, even though it is still only for one turn.. A Necklace is certainly something to work with though.. Maybe a "necklace" of shrunken heads, to give it that tribal/horror angle...

 

[Uziel]

Changed the Red Fury vampiric power slightly...

 

[Thorin Hubertson]

Thorin Hubertson:

For the Blood Dragons, there are already two weapon options, so I'm not sure if I want the third one to be one as well.. I was considering the "Chalice of Blood Keep" since Walach no longer has it on his person. Not sure yet. I might decide to make the Blood Dragons only get Magic Weapons for their Bloodline items, but I haven't decided if this is an overall good idea yet..

The Necklace is certainly an option. Not sure if I like the LD 10 option, as it goes a long way towards cancelling the Leadership weakness of the strigoi, even though it is still only for one turn.. A Necklace is certainly something to work with though.. Maybe a "necklace" of shrunken heads, to give it that tribal/horror angle...

Apologies for my late answer.
Regarding the Blood Dragons I thought that they should have only offensive magical equipment, as cheating with magical armour or other protecting things could be seen as a sign for a deficit in their combat skills by the Blood Dragon himself and his collegues. To protect from cannonshot or other battlefield-dangers from that direction, the Blood Dragon vampires still have the possibility to use the 'Look out, sir!'-rule if they choose to accompany a unit.
Did you have some kind of magical banner for the Blood Dragons in mind?

As for the Strigoi, I wanted to give an option to make sure that once in a game one can be sure that the army does what is expected from it, but without changing the leadership-characteristic of the Strigoi too heavy.
Maybe give (once per game) a leadership of 9 only or (once per game) a leadership of 10 but the stupidity rule for the rest of the game on a die roll of 4+ on 1d6 as (for explanation) the Strigoi can't hold the concentration but has temporary lost his anger afterwards?