The feel of Vampire Counts

[Vampire Count]

I'm really intrigued about starting a VC army. My current armies are lizardmen and skaven, and I have to say I much prefer the feel of lizardmen. That is, I have always enjoyed fielding fewer superior troops over hordes of weaklings. Plus.I enjoy having to manoeuvre and outwit the enemy rather than simply marching forward and bogging them down in hordes of chaff. I'd rather paint 15 Ironbreakers and grudgingly remove them one by one as they fight to the bitter end, than 50 empire state troops who flinch at every sound. So part of me worries that VC will not fulfil that desire at all - obviously the army is largely made up of some of the weakest, most unthreatening troops ever to grace the table. However I do kindle a hope that this may not necessarily be the case. With access to one of, if not the, most powerful combat lords in the game, strong magic, crypt ghouls, black knights and blood knights, grave guard, and ethereal units, I wonder whether they might have enough strong units to sate my appetite for elitism? Plus, the easy access to healing does add an extra dimension to all their troops, making them all much more resilient. How do you feel about VC? Are you often cowering in the corner as high and mighty elites such as chaos warriors and sword masters smash through your feeble units; do you find yourself envious of the high WS, disciplined, proud ranks of the foe? Or do you find solace in your own elite butchers and grin as they carve their way through the heart of the enemy army? Obviously VC has a bit of both going on, but I'm wondering if the army leans one way or the other in your mind, or if it's at least plausible for it to. I hope my question makes sense to you.

 

[Count Darvaleth]

I think we have some very strong units, but those units are made all the stronger by the frankly poor infantry they march alongside. I'm always amazed when my Grave Guard actually kill something, simply because the rest of my army is often running around in circles getting their asses kicked. It is possible to field a more elite VC army, however:

Vampire Lord + loads of equipment/bloodline powers + a horse or even a zombie dragon

A Hero selection to your taste

Core: Don't take Zombies, and possibly not even Skeletons; if you want elite then hit the most expensive core infantry unit, the ghouls. Don't take more than 25% core if you're going elite.

Special: As you can have 50% special, fill up here. Grave Guard, Black Knights, Vargheists, Crypt Horrors... whatever takes your fancy

Rare: Blood Knights and/or Varghulf and/or Terrorgheist and/or Mortis Engine


I will say I doubt you'd do particularly well going full-elite with VC. They mix hordes of poor troops with smaller numbers of brilliant ones, led by powerful characters. You can't treat them like High Elves, for example, where their core units rival the stats of some of our specials.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

It's daunting to paint, but i've found going all magic with my character picks can make a fairly numerous army truly massive, and a truly massive pain in the neck to opponents. The fact we can practically double our infantry relatively quickly is a killer feat. There's a thread floating around where they do the math-hammer, and the guy going all casters and skellies is raising near a hundred models a game. The days of a neverending tide of bones are back.

Now that's obviously more suited to the Skaven side of your game than the Lizards. VC have some awesome elite units that are very characterful, so it's possible to make heavy-fisted lists, but for shear weight of models that /keep/ standing back up, it's hard to find a better path than necros/caster characters.

 

[Gurthaur]

I would say the typical "Feeling" of the Vampire Counts is cooperation between the masses of poor infantry and smaller elite troops with a wide range of tactical possibilities.

So your large zombie or skeletton units will hold the line, tarpit enemys and such, while your elite troops will fulfil special roles, kill stuff and win your battle. The vast range of different special units allows for a lot of tactical possibilities, and your Lords and heroes have to hide from almost noone and will make lots of enemys shiver.

Now add a strong magic and the possibility to heal /raise your units. That means that with enouhgh magical support your miserable zombies will win every battle of attrition.

Finaly, the undead are a pretty scary bunch of bones and rotting meat. Never forget that fear.^^ Thats a pretty good sum up i think.

Oh and concerning poor infantry beeing killd in masses... well, you look differently at that if even more stand up again in the next round.
(And unlike Skaven they wont run away, no need to stay alive if your already dead.)

 

[hornywingythingy]

I have to say it sounds like you might be happier with a more elite army like warriors of chaos or high or dark elves, your statement of what you like in your army, the elite stuff that really grudgingly dies sounds like warriors to me, don't get me wrong, I really love vamps, but if you would rather not be taking off fifteen models a turn (and replacing them with thirty in the next magic phase) VC may not be for you. Warriors arguably have the best characters in the game in terms of stats, and warriors are probably the hardest core troops on a point for point basis. I'd certainly give them a look, they might be more your cup of tea?

 

[Vorpac]

I have to say it sounds like you might be happier with a more elite army like warriors of chaos or high or dark elves, your statement of what you like in your army, the elite stuff that really grudgingly dies sounds like warriors to me, don't get me wrong, I really love vamps, but if you would rather not be taking off fifteen models a turn (and replacing them with thirty in the next magic phase) VC may not be for you. Warriors arguably have the best characters in the game in terms of stats, and warriors are probably the hardest core troops on a point for point basis. I'd certainly give them a look, they might be more your cup of tea?

This sums up my thoughts pretty well too. I used to play warriors as the rock hard infantry and uber-powerful combat characters are appealing, however, I felt this led to very linear games and limited tactical choices. Others will naysay this and bemoan my tunnel vision but I rolled a non-marked army based on a nordic warband- no crazy critters giants etc in there.
The WoC are touch, elite and beastly in combat- they have no really cheap screen models though (other than dogs) and they have no range excepts spells and no regen so missile armies and mega-magic armies are tough, but they are very characterful and fun if you like mad hairy psychos!
Regarding VCs, I have just started my VCs (using my WoC models) based on a newly Vampiric Warlord and his ghoulkin horde as it lets me play VCs with my fave models and lets me raise models previosly killed!!! (Still cant get used to not being sad about dead models every turn!).
Look at both books long and hard my friend and look at other players' armies and how they play and try them out, or ask to borrow a friends or players at the local gaming club- experience is the best teacher and will help you no end.

All the best fella

Vorpac x

 

[Vampire Count]

Thanks for your replies, everyone.

I have to say that whilst WoC would be appealing, my main opponent already has a vast and well-painted WoC and it would be a bit boring I think. Speaking of resilience, I had a look through the Tamukahn book - for a small price increase Chaos Knights can be given 2 wounds, a 5+ regen, and a monstrous mount with 2 attacks! Fantastic book as well.

I think I am coming round to the idea of raisable troops, though. There's certainly a world of difference between swarming the enemy with clanrats and slaves and knowing they'll likely be slaughtered and could well break, to fielding absolutely unbreakable troops with the knowledge that you can easily resurrect them. Plus the solid combat options in the list do provide a welcome change and look to be enough for me.

I'll probably pick up a box of skeletons in the next few weeks and see how I like painting them (can't be any worse than skaven slaves!)

I've got my eyes on Dwarfs for the future as well, which will certainly be the resilience I'm looking for, but I wouldn't play them til they get new models, so Vampire Counts will be nice in the meantime. Wait, did I say 'nice'? I meant 'evil'!

 

[Aeviaan]

Another falls to the thirst!!! :konrad: Enjoy your meals!

 

[Sanai]

disciplined, proud ranks

pfft, skeleton warriors are by far the most disciplined troops in any army. No fear, no emotion, no mercy, no remorse.

 

[Zeleck]

i love the feel of my vampire countess

 

[Zephyr]

You'll also find that even if you go horde with your VC it's vastly different from Skaven. I also play both and a big plus is that the undead models are IMO much quicker to paint than Clanrats and Slaves. The latter have more details and though the undead have some tidbits here and there it's nothing like the furry critters.
The playstyle is also vastly different let me tell you!

 

[Count Darvaleth]

i love the feel of my vampire countess

I cannot read this with a straight face. If you did not mean this to sound perverted, I am truly sorry.

Glad to see another succumb to the Hunger. Hope it goes well for you!

 

[Sception]

"hard" is not really the feel of the vamp counts army. Implacable, maybe. Ours is an army of shambling hordes who are cut down only to rise again, while the more deadly elites flit through the battle hunting for opportune targets. Vamps play games of attrition. Get the enemy elites stuck in with tar pits, while your elites try to kill the rest of their army, and see who lasts longest. If your magic phase is going well, it should be you - as many models fall on both sides, but only yours get back up the next turn to keep fighting.

And even our 'elites' tend not to be too resiliant. Vargheists are the archetypal glass cannon. Blood Knights are relatively tough individually, but not when considered against their points cost. Even our mainstay elites - the wights - aren't all that tough, defensively. Most elites will hit grave guard on threes, wound them on fours or better, and leave them with little to no armor save.

About the only really 'hard' unit in the vamp counts army is crypt horrors. Great toughness, a fair number of wounds for their points cost, and a 5+ regen that can be improved to 4+ by a nearby mortis engine makes these guys a solid anvil that will stop most enemies cold.


If you're looking for an elite army with tough units, I'd look to crypt horrors supported by a mortis engine, with blood knights filling up any remaining rare points you have. This nets you a tough anvil and a hard hammer to work with, as well as the engine, which will help you buff out your magic phase so that you can grant your tar pit core their own odd brand of durability.

 

[Kaptain Von]

This sums up my thoughts pretty well too. I used to play warriors as the rock hard infantry and uber-powerful combat characters are appealing, however, I felt this led to very linear games and limited tactical choices. Others will naysay this and bemoan my tunnel vision but I rolled a non-marked army based on a nordic warband- no crazy critters giants etc in there.

Limiting your choice of units from an already limited book will tend to limit your choices somewhat. I bet your army looked smashing though. Marauders tend to.

Would you have been tempted to roll in Ogres and Giants on the grounds that it wouldn't be too hard to make them look like really, really big Marauders?

 

[Vorpac]

Would you have been tempted to roll in Ogres and Giants on the grounds that it wouldn't be too hard to make them look like really, really big Marauders?
[/quote]

To be honest it was no something I considered, however I am considering making some ogres into my crypt horrors and painting them the same way as mymarauder ghouls
My total standout was the Marauder Lord on giant wolf (canis wolfborn conversion) and having seen the new thunderwolf cavalry concepts I think he is about to get some Bloodknights XD

Thanks for the ideas,

Vorpac x