The Strongest Warrior

[Lynks]

My vote goes to Abhorash, He is most definitely the greatest warrior still living.


How about a Malus Darkblade (with bag of tricks) thrown into the mix? :tongue:

 

[Get of W'soran]

My vote goes to Abhorash, He is most definitely the greatest warrior still living.


How about a Malus Darkblade (with bag of tricks) thrown into the mix? :tongue:

Malus is too awesome to die!

...

Although loosing is definitely is his repertoire :tongue:

 

[Ghouly]

guys.....how have we forgotten about Gotrek from the Slayer series

 

[TMS]

Could not really call a blood thirster a warrior in my mind, they are rage mad manifest gifted with abilities and created by gods, they are not warriors but constructs.
How can you claim to have skill if you were built like that, you are simply you, nothing more, nothing less.

Bloodthirsters exist only to wage war and to fight. Self-made or not they're definitely true warriors, and I don't think they care much for distinctions anyway once they get their axes swinging.

Well if we went from that with all of them without their magic or bloodlines etc the blood thirster is out straight away, its made of magic and has no ability of its past what it is given, it is another faceless monster in a expanse littered with them.

Both Archaon and Abhorash are augmented by magic and they were not always as they are now. The Bloodthirsters have always been what they are right now, so there's nothing to remove from them. But as Bullhax said, daemons already start out at the elite level so it's really a dull comparison.

I've gotten the feeling that greater daemons are used much like dwarfs are when it comes to displaying the power of something. They can be thrown around like nothing in one instance and be unstoppable forces in another. ...although dwarfs aren't ever portrayed as unstoppable. :lol:

 

[TMS]

guys.....how have we forgotten about Gotrek from the Slayer series

Without plot armour I think a Bloodthirster would strangle Gotrek with his own beard.

 

[Ghouly]

that wasn't plot armor that was Feliex

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

SNIP
this is why Abhorash is the greatest warrior, he has not done the greatest deed (and neither did Aenarion) but his determination, force of will, code of honour and ability without that of magical aids makes him the greatest warrior.

To be fair Abhorash is a product of magic, the Curse of Vampirism came from magical research and then a magical elixir.
The magical immortality give him infinite time to master swordsmanship, gives him strength and speed.

I bet he's got a magic sword too...whether enchanted or one that his own dark power has "bled" into.

The Vamparism did make him more powerful but this is a curse that he has mastered, only one other has entirely.
However he was a great warrior before this.

His Dark power?...
He never uses magic as a point, likely one of the reasons the blood knights are one of the less corrupted and more controlled of the bloodlines.

My vote goes to Abhorash, He is most definitely the greatest warrior still living.


How about a Malus Darkblade (with bag of tricks) thrown into the mix? :tongue:

Malus does not really come into it in this power level, I would vote him amongst the strongest heros but not up here at this level, I would bet the Witch King over him even with both of them naked magically. (I know The Witch King is a Lord but he would Cain him and even he is not at this level.)

 

[Get of W'soran]

SNIP
this is why Abhorash is the greatest warrior, he has not done the greatest deed (and neither did Aenarion) but his determination, force of will, code of honour and ability without that of magical aids makes him the greatest warrior.

To be fair Abhorash is a product of magic, the Curse of Vampirism came from magical research and then a magical elixir.
The magical immortality give him infinite time to master swordsmanship, gives him strength and speed.

I bet he's got a magic sword too...whether enchanted or one that his own dark power has "bled" into.

The Vamparism did make him more powerful but this is a curse that he has mastered, only one other has entirely.
However he was a great warrior before this.

His Dark power?...
He never uses magic as a point, likely one of the reasons the blood knights are one of the less corrupted and more controlled of the bloodlines.

Dark power basically means the Dhar that "bleeds" out of him, not necessarily magic cast.

Like how their are items/weapons/equipment (whatever!) in the army book described as gaining power simply because they were once owned by someone. Like Harkon's armour and all.


What do you mean by mastered?

I'm sure each of the master vampire's feel they did too, they had different aims afterall.

W'soran managed to become an uber mage just as he wanted...then got murdered but that aside! :tongue:
Nefereta became a Queen b*tch of the world Like she wanted.
Ushoran...err...poor guy.
Vashanesh...might not exist anymore...

Hmm...this isn't going as planned :tongue:

 

[Lynks]

At the naked level sure malus has very little going for him, but with tzarkan, The Octagon of prann, Idol of Kolkuth, Dagger of Torxus, Amulet of Vaurog and the sword of khaine? THere's no way the witch king wins. :tongue:

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Could not really call a blood thirster a warrior in my mind, they are rage mad manifest gifted with abilities and created by gods, they are not warriors but constructs.
How can you claim to have skill if you were built like that, you are simply you, nothing more, nothing less.

Bloodthirsters exist only to wage war and to fight. Self-made or not they're definitely true warriors, and I don't think they care much for distinctions anyway once they get their axes swinging.

Well if we went from that with all of them without their magic or bloodlines etc the blood thirster is out straight away, its made of magic and has no ability of its past what it is given, it is another faceless monster in a expanse littered with them.

Both Archaon and Abhorash are augmented by magic and they were not always as they are now. The Bloodthirsters have always been what they are right now, so there's nothing to remove from them. But as Bullhax said, daemons already start out at the elite level so it's really a dull comparison.

I've gotten the feeling that greater daemons are used much like dwarfs are when it comes to displaying the power of something. They can be thrown around like nothing in one instance and be unstoppable forces in another. ...although dwarfs aren't ever portrayed as unstoppable. :lol:

They are a magical construct created by gods, they are not warriors, they are tools.
If magic spells and items are discounted, so are they as they are magic in its purest form, hell they can't even get into the world without help and have died a hundred times over.


You can't compare daemons on the same level as a warrior, if we are doing that we may as well start bringing the dragons into this, they are fierce warriors and have fought against chaos for thousands of years.



Gotrek was nearly killed by a Vampire in the books and was only saved by poor writing when suddenly he was on the other side of the room after a chandelier chrassed to the ground where a moment before he was all but dead on his back, same thing happened at the siege of Prague as well in the book before and he has that damn magic Axe which is what gives him all of his power really.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

SNIP
this is why Abhorash is the greatest warrior, he has not done the greatest deed (and neither did Aenarion) but his determination, force of will, code of honour and ability without that of magical aids makes him the greatest warrior.

To be fair Abhorash is a product of magic, the Curse of Vampirism came from magical research and then a magical elixir.
The magical immortality give him infinite time to master swordsmanship, gives him strength and speed.

I bet he's got a magic sword too...whether enchanted or one that his own dark power has "bled" into.

The Vamparism did make him more powerful but this is a curse that he has mastered, only one other has entirely.
However he was a great warrior before this.

His Dark power?...
He never uses magic as a point, likely one of the reasons the blood knights are one of the less corrupted and more controlled of the bloodlines.

Dark power basically means the Dhar that "bleeds" out of him, not necessarily magic cast.

Like how their are items/weapons/equipment (whatever!) in the army book described as gaining power simply because they were once owned by someone. Like Harkon's armour and all.


What do you mean by mastered?

I'm sure each of the master vampire's feel they did too, they had different aims afterall.

W'soran managed to become an uber mage just as he wanted...then got murdered but that aside! :tongue:
Nefereta became a Queen b*tch of the world Like she wanted.
Ushoran...err...poor guy.
Vashanesh...might not exist anymore...

Hmm...this isn't going as planned :tongue:

I am aware of that but most of this has been resolved by the Dragon Blood and he is now self sustaining.
He has swapped his batteries.

They no longer suffer any negative such as light, silver, icons, or need blood.
I would say that overcoming every downside to being a vampire counts as mastered.

Also in the lore Vashanesh is currently meant to be getting raised by the grey colledge to fight Mannfred so that Karl Franz can focus on chaos to the north.
Hope they expand on this as it would be awesome.

At the naked level sure malus has very little going for him, but with tzarkan, The Octagon of prann, Idol of Kolkuth, Dagger of Torxus, Amulet of Vaurog and the sword of khaine? THere's no way the witch king wins. :tongue:

Sure if we start taking into account items it may be different but i don't think it would be cut and dry, he is a powerful wizard and destroys magic items with his own, may be a close fight provided the witch king is not mounted.

 

[TMS]

You can't compare daemons on the same level as a warrior, if we are doing that we may as well start bringing the dragons into this, they are fierce warriors and have fought against chaos for thousands of years.

Of course we can do that, they're not above this. Abhorash killed one on his own, after all.

Greater daemons do come with some personality as well. Skarbrand is said to have once been the mightiest of the bloodthirsters, although we don't know if they all started out at a base line and can work their way up from there. They can obviously rise and shrink in favour, though.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

You can't compare daemons on the same level as a warrior, if we are doing that we may as well start bringing the dragons into this, they are fierce warriors and have fought against chaos for thousands of years.

Of course we can do that, they're not above this. Abhorash killed one on his own, after all.

Greater daemons do come with some personality as well. Skarbrand is said to have once been the mightiest of the bloodthirsters, although we don't know if they all started out at a base line and can work their way up from there. They can obviously rise and shrink in favour, though.

But we can't because once magic comes into it you need to take into account magical equipment, and wizards.
If Daemons are made of magic you either allow it or discount them.

I still personally say you can not count a daemon as a warrior as they are a construct made for killing, they come off a production line we pre assigned abilities.
We don't count robots as warriors for the same reason and they are no different.

He did and he has had his backside kicked by every has-bin since.

It seems nagash will come into this after all as he was at god level power at his greatest.

 

[TMS]

But we can't because once magic comes into it you need to take into account magical equipment, and wizards.
If Daemons are made of magic you either allow it or discount them.

That depends on what arbitrary set of rules we want them to play by. In the nude, completely unaugmented and the way nature wanted them to be like, we've got an unarmed bloodthirster against the naked, abandoned Archaon. Archaon uses magic, the bloodthirster is magic. One can be taken away, the other can't be.

Abhorash's vampirism isn't that easily taken away, admittedly..

I still personally say you can not count a daemon as a warrior as they are a construct made for killing, they come off a production line we pre assigned abilities.
We don't count robots as warriors for the same reason and they are no different.

Why is a "construct" any less of a warrior? If one entity outmatches another in terms of skill and combat prowess (and a 'thirster has that covered) it is the better warrior, right? Sheer size can be a caveat though, since at some point skill isn't really a factor any longer, but a bloodthirster isn't that impossibly big.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

But we can't because once magic comes into it you need to take into account magical equipment, and wizards.
If Daemons are made of magic you either allow it or discount them.

That depends on what arbitrary set of rules we want them to play by. In the nude, completely unaugmented and the way nature wanted them to be like, we've got an unarmed bloodthirster against the naked, abandoned Archaon. Archaon uses magic, the bloodthirster is magic. One can be taken away, the other can't be.

Abhorash's vampirism isn't that easily taken away, admittedly..

I still personally say you can not count a daemon as a warrior as they are a construct made for killing, they come off a production line we pre assigned abilities.
We don't count robots as warriors for the same reason and they are no different.

Why is a "construct" any less of a warrior? If one entity outmatches another in terms of skill and combat prowess (and a 'thirster has that covered) it is the better warrior, right? Sheer size can be a caveat though, since at some point skill isn't really a factor any longer, but a bloodthirster isn't that impossibly big.

You also have to take into account fighting styles, where as Abhorash fights with skill and cunning the blood thirster is a brute of great strength but there is a reason Khorn is not known for thinking things through.
All his daemons are bull headed and quick to rage yet not so quick of the mark when it comes to thinking.

Because it is made, it has never worked towards what it is.
If I made a robot that could run 60 miles per hour would that make it a greater athlete than many of the other runners in the world?
No, it is a machine, just because it is made from magic does not take away his fact, it is a killing machine, made to destroy but it is not a warrior, it is a weapon, a tool and that is all.

A faceless monster among thousands?
Only 2 Blood Thirsters are well known, the rest are on the reject wagon and they are feared as a whole, rarely by single reputation.
Great strength does not make a warrior in the same way as being a drunk does not make you a connoisseur of fine wines.

Blood Thirsters are huge, they are larger than building and trees easily standing in excess of 50 to 100 feet depending on which book or art work your looking at, the GW model representation is laughable.

 

[Ghouly]

Also in the lore Vashanesh is currently meant to be getting raised by the grey colledge to fight Mannfred so that Karl Franz can focus on chaos to the north.
Hope they expand on this as it would be awesome.

:devil2: sorry to pop your bubble but there's no plot to bring back Vlad its to bring back Konrad and the rest of Mannfreds siblings and it's by the death college not the Grey

 

[Malochai]

Also in the lore Vashanesh is currently meant to be getting raised by the grey colledge to fight Mannfred so that Karl Franz can focus on chaos to the north.
Hope they expand on this as it would be awesome.

:devil2: sorry to pop your bubble but there's no plot to bring back Vlad its to bring back Konrad and the rest of Mannfreds siblings and it's by the death college not the Grey

You mean the Amethyst college, who use the wind of Shyish :tongue:

Seriously, though, where is this in the fluff?! How could I miss that?

 

[Ghouly]

Nights Dark Masters

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Also in the lore Vashanesh is currently meant to be getting raised by the grey colledge to fight Mannfred so that Karl Franz can focus on chaos to the north.
Hope they expand on this as it would be awesome.

:devil2: sorry to pop your bubble but there's no plot to bring back Vlad its to bring back Konrad and the rest of Mannfreds siblings and it's by the death college not the Grey

I feel positive that it is the Grey College but this is part of the lore of Nights Dark Masters and it does exist so yes, there is a plot unless you discount the lore from that book.
Looks like I am going to have to do allot of reading at some point to find this being mentioned... Oh well, who needs weekends.

I still feel certain to the point where i would bet my Black Knights on it.

 

[TMS]

You also have to take into account fighting styles, where as Abhorash fights with skill and cunning the blood thirster is a brute of great strength but there is a reason Khorn is not known for thinking things through.
All his daemons are bull headed and quick to rage yet not so quick of the mark when it comes to thinking.

Being a brute doesn't diminish its status as a warrior since it still fights for the sake of fighting. It's not an animal that does it to find food, or is being herded into battle to fight on others' behalf. Being the way it is it'd be perfectly suited to arena combat which is likely what we're talking about here. It can certainly be out-strategized by someone capable in that field.

Because it is made, it has never worked towards what it is.
If I made a robot that could run 60 miles per hour would that make it a greater athlete than many of the other runners in the world?

If you define athlete as someone who has been training to acquire skill then no, it wouldn't be. It could be the fastest runner, though.

There's plenty of definitions of warrior that will fit the bloodthirster inside it. You can't deny that it engages in warfare since its entire existence depends on it.

Blood Thirsters are huge, they are larger than building and trees easily standing in excess of 50 to 100 feet depending on which book or art work your looking at, the GW model representation is laughable.

I think it's just as likely that the Bloodthirster could be about 2-3 times the size of a large man in height. That would make it able to duel humanoids with only a heavy dose of suspension of disbelief.

 

[Ghouly]

I think it's just as likely that the Bloodthirster could be about 2-3 times the size of a large man in height. That would make it able to duel humanoids with only a heavy dose of suspension of disbelief.

the Bloodthirster in Daemonslayer picked up Gotrek by the head like his skull was a baseball.


Duke do you count Greenskins and Beastmen as Warriors?

 

[El Syf]

About the whole Archaon/valten/grimgor storm of chaos thing. Hasn't that effectivley been removed now? As in newer fluff the storm of chaos hasn't happend yet and Archaon isn't hiding in brass keep feeling like a loser?
I would go Abhorash for the win against pretty much anything other then Khorne himself.
Until daddy Blood Dragon gets nerfed in some fluff (as that's all we have to go on) he is made out to be nothing short of unstoppable in combat.
I am somewhat biased but everything I have read makes Abhorash seem like the don.

 

[Pridster]

im on the Abhorash band wagon however if we are counting bloodthirster than how about necroflex collosus bad boy to wreck the blood thirsters day that thing is massive and silly

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

You also have to take into account fighting styles, where as Abhorash fights with skill and cunning the blood thirster is a brute of great strength but there is a reason Khorn is not known for thinking things through.
All his daemons are bull headed and quick to rage yet not so quick of the mark when it comes to thinking.

Being a brute doesn't diminish its status as a warrior since it still fights for the sake of fighting. It's not an animal that does it to find food, or is being herded into battle to fight on others' behalf. Being the way it is it'd be perfectly suited to arena combat which is likely what we're talking about here. It can certainly be out-strategized by someone capable in that field.

Because it is made, it has never worked towards what it is.
If I made a robot that could run 60 miles per hour would that make it a greater athlete than many of the other runners in the world?

If you define athlete as someone who has been training to acquire skill then no, it wouldn't be. It could be the fastest runner, though.

There's plenty of definitions of warrior that will fit the bloodthirster inside it. You can't deny that it engages in warfare since its entire existence depends on it.

Blood Thirsters are huge, they are larger than building and trees easily standing in excess of 50 to 100 feet depending on which book or art work your looking at, the GW model representation is laughable.

I think it's just as likely that the Bloodthirster could be about 2-3 times the size of a large man in height. That would make it able to duel humanoids with only a heavy dose of suspension of disbelief.

But a sword is not a warrior and that is a tool of war created to kill much like a blood thirster.

In regards to it size it has alwats been a giant, even in dawn of war compared to marines it was at least 60 feet tall.
In art work and trailers it is significantly more so and the most accutate model we have on one is the Forge World Blood Thirster which is even bigger.

I think it's just as likely that the Bloodthirster could be about 2-3 times the size of a large man in height. That would make it able to duel humanoids with only a heavy dose of suspension of disbelief.

the Bloodthirster in Daemonslayer picked up Gotrek by the head like his skull was a baseball.


Duke do you count Greenskins and Beastmen as Warriors?

They may be a little savage but they gained their skill, they were all born in their own way and worked their way up, they have individual fighting style and skills, they are capable of understanding on the same level as we so that would make them good warriors.
If anything I would argue that Orcs were one of the greatest warrior races.

 

[TMS]

But a sword is not a warrior and that is a tool of war created to kill much like a blood thirster.

In regards to it size it has alwats been a giant, even in dawn of war compared to marines it was at least 60 feet tall.
In art work and trailers it is significantly more so and the most accutate model we have on one is the Forge World Blood Thirster which is even bigger.

The bloodthirster will actively try to fight you, though. A sword won't defeat someone on its own. I can't see anything that denies a daemon from being a warrior just because it has been given its abilities at birth. It wages war to destroy its enemies like any other warrior does. You could say that it's unfair that it's got a head start on mortals but that's not relevant in this topic.

Bloodthirsters can probably manifest in many different sizes, but for the purposes of this thread I'm referring to the 5-wound variety that we get to play with in the game. Those are also represented in artwork.