The Witcher vs TES

  • The masquerade of murder returns! A new game of Vampires Amongst Us has begun. Unmask the killers, trust no one, and try to survive the night. Find out more and sign up now!

Aren

Crypt Horror
Sep 22, 2010
520
Zombies
453
So, on another thread we got into this argument, seeing as the topic seems to have some mileage this thread has come into being.

The argument is that of story. Both games are great and having played both while I do prefer the Witcher I respect TES.

The reason I prefer the Witcher is because of the story which for me seems to be superior to TES and is told in a better way.

Thoughts guys?
 
I love TES games, don't get me wrong, but I do feel that The Witcher 2 (the one I've played - downloaded the original on my computer but it's not good enough to run it properly -_-) has a much better story to it which you can actually connect with.

I've not read the books, but I want to ...

EDIT: TES is The Elder Scrolls - Arena, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim ... There's another I can't remember the name of
 
Like I said in the previous thread. The witcher has a much stronger story and your decisions actually effect the game world, if it had a few companion npcs like bioware RPG"s I would re-play the damned things a thousand times :( xD
 
DoN - TES - The Elder Scrolls. If you haven't played them then get a copy on that new PS3 of yours, become a vampire and slaughter :) .

I love the Witcher books and I have played both games. I think the Witcher story is great and that TES has a good story but they tell it badly.
 
Witcher 2 is a PC game, you can get it in gog ( for fairly cheap). It's DRM free and they released a huge enhanced edition for their game for free as well >.> Damn I love that company.
 
Shareya, they did that for both Witcher games. In this world of manipulating companies it's nice that CDPR exists.

DoN - I am going to strap you into a chair and......make you play the Witcher. A lot. I have a feeling you would love the game, as I gather you prefer mature games (not only because of the naked women you perv :P ) and big choices. As long as you have a better than average PC you will be able to run TW2, or if you have a 360 just get it for that.
 
the Witcher series may have a better story, or at least more of one. It's hard to have a compelling story when the main protagonist needs to be a completely blank slate so that the player can play whatever combination of race, class, appearance, and abilities they want. It's a sort of trade off thing - do you make the main character a blank slate silent protagonist so that they player may project whatever character they want onto them, or do you as a game developer create your own protagonist, so that you can invest them with their own motivations and characterization, and allow them to develop and evolve over the course of the story, reacting meaningfully to the events around them? While at the same time running the risk of alienating potential players who can't stand the protagonist you choose to hand them? Because for me Geralt goes straight into the 'insufferable' bin next to Tidus and Nathan Drake.

When it comes to story and plot, neither game compares to the SMT games, and Persona games in particular, at least when it comes to real maturity and meaningful commentary on the human condition. Persona 3, for instance, actually used its story and structure to examine the nature of mortality and the ultimate meaningfulness of life's struggle even in the face of death's inevitability, and as a result the story is far more compelling than the idle escapist fare of most rpgs. Not that there's anything wrong with pure escapism, but if we're going to talk about what makes a story good as a story then the underlying message - or lack of one in most cases - is certainly worth bringing up.

Of course, strong characters are essential for delivering a strong story, and when it comes to characterization and especially characterization through dialog, I'd argue that Bioware games like Mass Effect or Dragon Age are some of the best around. Then again, those games are also of the 'build your own protagonist and project whatever you want onto them' model, so the supposed main character ends up feeling flat and lifeless compared to their diverse caste of vivid supporting characters. I can't be the only person who ever wished I could just swap the blank slate protagonist out of my party and run a team entirely consisting of those fantastic supporting characters. I came out of Dragon Age with a far stronger connection to Morrigan or Sten than to my own character. Reminds me of Chrono Trigger way back in the day, which had a silent protagonist, but towards the end of the game you could drop him from your party, and I always did.

Squeenix games are worth mentioning, actually, as final fantasy games also give you set characters that they (try to) tell an actual story with, rather than letting you build your own character who then inhabits but fails to respond to the story going on around them. Final Fantasy games have been shitting the bed for a while now, admittedly, but while their stories, characters, and game play have been quite weak for quite some time, one thing at least in their favor is that they at least try to bring you original worlds and settings and ideas.

I mean, 13 was about the least enjoyable of the bunch, but the society in that game was built up around technology gifted by godlike magical creatures to a human society that became subservient due to its dependence, taking place primarily on a city world built on the inside shell of a hollow moon orbiting a giant wilderness planet full of huge beasts and dinosaurs. To me that's a hell of a lot more 'fantastic' than 'generic tolkienesque time-locked medieval European setting number eight thousand and seventy four'. Also, now that I actually write out the description, it also sounds like it was all hells of rife for some quality social commentary that the game might have even pulled off if it hadn't been shitting itself inside out in every other department. Dragon Age, the Witcher, the Elder Scrolls, and honestly most other 'fantasy' games and books and movies could all take place in the exact same setting for all the paltry differences in the details matter. How many truly original stories can you tell in a setting so thoroughly run into the ground?



As for the witcher series specifically, I only ever tried the first, and that was enough to turn me off to the series entirely. Boring, stodgy, slow, padded, sexist, 'mature' in the most immature way (a 13 year old boy's concept of maturity, ie bewbs blood and swear words rather than significant character development or considered commentary on the human condition or actual adult themes like familial or societal responsibility), with mmo style questing and an over-complicated interface that together completely obscured any story it might have wanted to tell and made the game an absolute chore to play. Skyrim might have lacked story, but at least was fun for me to explore.

For the record, though, Skyrim is the first of the Elder Scrolls games I really enjoyed. The earlier ones were a bit too bogged down with their own hasslesome gameplay issues (ugh, that dialog wheel in Oblivion killed that game for me faster than the pathetic pandering to the male gaze killed the witcher).


If only I could play a game with the imaginative setting and amazing visuals of a final fantasy game; the open sandbox exploration of an Elder Scrolls game; the world impact of your character decisions of the Witcher series; the vivid, well realized characters and dialog of a Bioware game; the challenge of a Dark Souls; the meaningful, socially aware story & commentary on the human condition of a Persona game; and the dynamic and exciting combat of... I guess Kingdom Hearts. Because the KH games are about the only fantasy RPG series where I've really just viscerally enjoyed the combat for its own sake. Final Fantasy comes up with new ways to divorce the player from the action every game, the Witcher's all bogged down in its hasslesome interface, elder scrolls games frequently devolve into backpedaling while slinging spells or arrows, and bioware combat is just a tension killing pause-a-thon that might as well be turn based. Man, I could go on at length about just how much fun Kingdom Hearts is to play, but there's another thread for Kingdom Hearts.

Sadly all of those things require their own pile of resources - memory resources on disk and time and monetary resources in development - so there's always a trade off. Fortunately, as long as different development teams choose different options in that trade off, we can get a wealth of game play experiences to choose from. We can all enjoy different games for different reasons, and hopefully different development teams will learn from each other to improve the aspects of their games that are weaker.
 
Just copying across my reply from the other thread to save time, did not realise we already had a thread for this:

"The point is Aren is that it is a more realistic gaming experience where everything is seperate, not like the world of the people who wear foil hats because everything is connected.....

Because books are one deadicated storey, elderscrolls is hundreds if not thousands of small ones that are left open so they can pick them up in the future and craft them into something more, all the lore from the games has linked into each other and I think this will really come out in a great way come Elder Scrolls Online.

I will agree that Witcher has a better standard game plot because of the choice matrix effecting the world more but in lore, Elder Scrolls takes it, if you are too lazy to read the lore in the game, its does not mean another has better lore, it just means you are missing out through your own choice.
It makes little difference if the book and film came before the game, normally it just leads to people ruining books..... Thank you very Much Eragon....
Bit in this case with it just being a stand alone game, it can't go wrong, it makes its own lore, its own rules and is for the fans, they don't have to stick to something wrote decades ago written by someone else and in the game industry flexability is important.

Lord Of The Rings and the 3 books before it are packed with lore and are in a different league to Witcher, hell comparing them is a insult to LOTR's.
The Two are not even comparable beyond the fact they had a book, film, game in that order.
Jesus and Hilter were both Carpenters before they lead people, are they comparable?
Regardless of the fact there is no Elder Scrolls Movie, people want the game, not another blockbuster which they will screw up much like LOTR's did not match up with allot of the books.

I will never argue that which game is better will always be prefence and each have their own fan bases, TES being allot larger in that regard but that is because it is better know because it has been a long love series.

You uncover lore that is needed in that quest, the rest you have to look for which give you things to do and is good because lore should not just appear, you should have to look for it, read books to gain it and in fact that is how you find some quests because of book lore in all The Elder Scrolls Games."



Got to agree with Malisteen there, Dragonage is another great storey and lore game with great charactisation which i would again place above witcher, taking in mind I do play WoW and would easily place Witcher above that so don't mistake my preference for not liking the game but i have only tried the last game and I think WoW's terible graphics is what has always let it down.

Mal, please never make a game with those qualities though or i will never be able to leave the house again. :scared:
 
Mal, what did you DO to geralt in the first game of the Witcher? The world is racist towards other races because that is realistic. If you put multiple races (elf, human, dwarf, not like countries or nationalities) in one city then the humans will be racist to the others. You have to remember the Witcher is set at least 800 years ago, most likely even more. People then weren't exactly educated, not most anyway, racism was rife and sex and rape were commonplace. Usually because people could get away with that so easily. Therefore the Witcher gives actually a very accurate description of what would happen. Too much swearing? Well for todays society yes, back then swearing was the bread and butter of speech for commonfolk. Sex? Promiscuity wasn't exactly bashed so much then. Blood? Geralt is going for the arteries as all combat specialists do. If I had a choice of stabbing someone in the leg or severing an artery I know what I would choose. If this makes the combat bloody then tough.

There are reasons behind everything CDPR put in there, you just have to look deep enough.


DDM- LotR lore is larger than Witcher's but that is to be expected. They are not dissimilarr though and the world of the Witcher is to me more believable. Having read Silmarillion, the lore of LotR is a lot of "and then this happened...." while the Witcher has a lot of "and another moral dilemma". They both have custom made languages, explanations of why the world exists and gripping tales of bygone heroes. And no, Sapkowski did not copy Tolkien. But to say that comparing them is insulting to LotR? I am sure Tolkien would enjoy reading the Witcher and have respect for the series which while it is inferior to LotR it offers a unique, challenging and intersting history. In fact, if Tolkien was alive right now I am sure he would disagree with a comparison between Witcher and LotR as being insulting.


Again, this is hard for me as I enjoyed both TES games and Witcher games but the story in The Witcher just seems more believable to me than the one in Skyrim or Oblivion. At least it is more unique.


Plus, PLEASE. TES is not realistic. I can slaughter so many people with 0 consequences it isn't even funny. If Skyrim was a CDPR game you wouldn't be mindlessly killing dragons but you would instead find that dragons are actually necessary to keep some evil at bay and so you would have the dilemma of letting a few dragons eat some people or killing them and taking on this evil yourself. Already a more involving storyline and that is the mere surface. Too much stuff in Skyrim is black and white, like: "ooh look, bad guy, kill him.....another bad guy, kill him" whereas in the Witcher it is "while the main antagonist seems evil, maybe him conquering everyone would finally unite them etc. Or, you can go kill that monster but then you are killing a deity of an old and respected religion which could have massive consequences".

TES is more for people who like Black and White games. The Witcher for those of us who prefer the grayness of real life in a fantasy setting.
 
Aren said:
Mal, what did you DO to geralt in the first game of the Witcher?

threw him in a bin with all the other protagonists I don't care for?

The world is racist towards other races because that is realistic.

Fantasy racism is as tired and cliche as every other aspect of the 'generic fantasy setting'. It was boring in Dragon Age, Skyrim, and the Witcher alike. "Realistic"? You know what, we probably shouldn't get into it. We really probably shouldn't. Because if you think realism was what was going on there, then you might want to spend a bit less time on the games and a bit more time in the history books. The settings in these games aren't about historical accuracy, they're about playing make believe in the setting the designers think you want to play in, and that is all.
 
Let us not get into it then. Though it is about closely following the books and not creating a world we want to play in (well, it is about making the world from the books playable). So far they stick to the books closely enough to show that it matters to them. It is an 18 though so it is not as if they want to spread that kind of behaviour, they're just working with the world that they have chosen to work with. Ask Mr. Sapkowski why he put the racism in but don't go for the "oh its just another generic fantasy" as it clearly isn't.

Also, steady on. If I said something to offend you in my last post then I apologise, yet is the harshness necessary? It is only my opinion based on my knowledge versus your opinion based on your knowledge, not actively trying to offend each other because the other's views do not suit us.
 
The Witcher may have more going for it in fidelity to source material than it or any generic fantasy game/book/movie has in any sort of actual historical context. As I haven't read said books, I wouldn't know. However, given that game developers have a choice of what games to make and what licenses to pursue, I'm not especially inclined to give them a pass for the subject matter of their game or handling thereof just because it's based on some other work which made similar choices.

While I'm not going to say that a video game can't handle serious issues like racism or exploitation or even rape in a serious manner, I think a game that also hands out collectible sexy trading card art for every hot babe you nail is probably not the one to do it. I honestly might have enjoyed that aspect of it if the Witcher were all fratboy fun all the time, lord knows all the 'dark' fantasy business can get yawn inducing sometimes, and I'd take sincere silliness over affected 'maturity' any day, but the 'dark tone' and 'serious intrigue' and 'gritty realism' that the rest of the game pretends to kind of falls flat for me after that.

I can totally appreciate that the series works your individual choices into the larger world better than pretty much any other fantasy rpg out there, and that the development team have put a lot of work into these games, but I guess they're just not my cup of tea.


Of course, that's another thing that becomes an innate trade off with a good story. You can't craft a well designed, well paced narrative that comes together into a coherent statement when you're also trying to let the player point the story and the world in whatever direction they choose. The world responds to player choices better than TES games, sure, but that freedom of choice kind of prevents the game from telling much of a story. Whatever the core plot thread is supposed to be, it just gets buried under an endless pile of side tracks and side quests and so on.
 
I agree a lot. Mal, you should play the Witcher 2 then as it does away with most of what you're complaining about. Geralt nailing someone is shown as well....Geralt nailing someone. No cards, nothing like that. Also the combat doesn't have quite as much blood and the humans are not as racist. Also you don't get the annoying combat which nearly made me blow my top. That said I forgave the Witcher 1 a lot and just enjoyed the game.

The Witcher 2 is much better in most aspects. It misses some of the artwork and there are really annoying comic strips every now and then (though some people totally dig those).

Now, to explain that I am not some racist person, I merely meant that while it is horrendously wrong it does make some sense for the peasants in TW to be racist towards elves and dwarves and so on. I think it is executed with enough subtelty to let it be, you might not think so. Like I said, TW2 has much milder racism.

Also, another thing which annoys me about TES is the combat. In TW and TW2 it is much more cinematic which makes you feel like you are a master swordsman. In TES you swing your right arm (yay!!) you swing your left arm (yay!!) and then you get a cutscene of epically killing something.

And yes, TES by its very nature makes relating to the protagonist hard as he/she can be anyone.

So sorry about above Mal, I did not mean it so harshly. Sometimes when typing my thoughts get jumbled and end up meaning something totally different ^^
 
Humans are fairly racist still (Witcher 2) but it is quite well explained/makes sense/ yada yada. Personally never had issues with it. If anything I would find it weird if everyone would be getting around in a nasty/dangerous world like that x)
 
I think 'realism' is a poor choice of words in describing The Witcher. Rather, it belongs to the 'gray fantasy' genre(so named because of a lack of clear good and evil), where people in general are much cruder and nastier than their counterparts from high fantasy(the Tolkien-esque kind). Hence all the racism and sexism. Funny enough, many RPGs these days are shooting for 'gray fantasy', TW1 just happens to be 1-2 years ahead of when this cycle started.

I agree that the collectible trading card thing in TW1 is juvenile and should have been left out. However it also says as much of the player as it does about the game's designers, because it's entirely optional and has no bearing(mechanics-wise) on the rest of the game.

Also, not all stories have to be social commentaries or examinations of life/the human condition. It's great if a story can pull it off, but I don't agree that a good, 'mature' story is required to do that at all.
 
TES wins for me personally. Note the last word, you cannot even compare the two. Both games have their pros and cons.
Being a TES fanboy I can spend hours trying to convince others how great it is but in the end it is what somebody prefers. It might be background, purely gaming reasons or whatever.

That said the last two games in the TES series were my least favorite as they took away a lot of choices. It felt dumbed down. Skyrim has some improvements over Oblivion(which sucked IMO) but also did some things worse(quests were actually better in Oblivion).

The Witcher? I stopped playing it after a few days as I feel it tries too hard to be grimdark. Like Malisteen it was a serious turn off for me. My life is gray enough thank you very much. I have seen the worst of humanity so when I play a game I do it to relax. TES has its darker sides but it is more disconnected from real life to me. The Witcher pushes my buttons in not so good ways.
If anybody feels good playing that; indulge I say, but don't expect the whole world to praise it. I won't do the same in return.

You just cannot compare individual preferences.
 
I don't think a deeper message or meaning is required, but I do feel it's the line that separates a 'good' story from a 'great' one, and thus seemed relevant to bring up in a thread contrasting stories in video games, even if neither of the games primarily being discussed manage (or even try to) pull it off.

It's something especially rare in the Fantasy genre in general, actually, whether we're looking at games, books, comics, television, or film. Fantasy as a genre has at least as much room for meaningful social commentary or exploration of the human condition as Science Fiction, and yet the genre as a whole seems overwhelmingly reluctant to even try, content to tell the same stories in the same settings over and over again. I mean, i have nothing against generic time locked tolkienesque medieval European fantasy. I enjoy my Lords of the Rings and Games of Thrones and Wheels of Times as much as the next nerd. I play my Ds and Ds every weekend. But sometimes it's nice to see something that tries to be more than that, even if it collapses in a messy disorganized jumble, like my favorite Fantasy book, Swanwick's Iron Dragon's Daughter, which feels like nothing so much an a bitter rejection of the rut the genre's dug out for itself.
 

About us

  • Our community has been around for many years and pride ourselves on offering unbiased, critical discussion among people of all different backgrounds. We are working every day to make sure our community is one of the best.

Quick Navigation

User Menu