to be a level 4 or not to be a level 4, that is the question ...

[Janner]

I have been getting some advice lately ... and everyone is saying a level 4 Necro is a 'must'.

Why a level 4 ... I mean the power pool of dice is random and the only advantage that I see is casting invocation on a 2+, but your opponents won't just let that slide and the days of re-casting that spell are over ... I have been playing a long time and have won Indy GTs and a few GW GTs ... with VC. 8th is the edition I bowed out of, just don't like it ... why does having a level 4 over a level 2 make the difference?

Advice is always appreciated ... I only made the experience comment above so that we can have a non-noob discussion.

Thanks,
Janner

 

[TinTip]

I find most people take a lvl4 for the spell selection and for the extra dispell boost. I havent run anything above a lvl2 in any games under 3K points in a long time and i find that it doesnt really make to much of a difference, plus having an extra 70 points gives me more flexibility in my units.

A lot of my opponents have started dropping their caster lvls as well in response

 

[HeroZero]

Why a Lvl 4.
Greater spell selection
Greater chance to cast on less dice.
Greater chance to dispel on less dice.
Greater options on how you cast
Greater gear allowance

 

[Wolf Child]

I find that taking a level 4 in larger games is essential, unfortunately.To make matters worse it usually has to be your vamp general doing all the casting and risking those bloody miscasts.As has been eloquently described in a previous thread our core units suck... and buffs to re-roll hits or wounds are vital to give us a slight fighting chance.The second reason that you need a level 4 is to try and fend off death snipes,fireballs aimed at your terrorghiest,purple suns,dwellers etc.I wish sometimes that all spells in warhammer were just minor buffs for strength,toughness and so on.I hate it when your army is wreaked stuff like the dreaded thirteenth or p sun.So yeah,lvl 4 it is then.

 

[RarerMonsters]

Level 4 casters are very important because of the spell selection and additional chance to cast and dispel (although for the record, a 2 to cast always fails as per BRB rules)

More importantly, since you can always cast from your highest level caster, the difference between a L4 and L2 is a little less than an extra die per cast free.

That said, it's not ESSENTIAL, and you can make multiple level 2s work, and it even has the advantage of offering greater lore diversity, channel attempts and less catastrophic miscast potential.

One of the main reasons VC runs Lvl 4s, though, is that, since our general must be a caster, 2/3 options give us the option of running a level 4 anyway. Of course, Master Necromancers aren't necessary. I usually run a Level 4 VL.

 

[Thindol]

Well, also a level 4 invocation is good when you are talking small units. Getting 5 black knights back is pretty key in some lists. Getting 5-10 grave guard back is also really good.

 

[idi3ispwn]

I find that taking a level 4 in larger games is essential, unfortunately.To make matters worse it usually has to be your vamp general doing all the casting and risking those bloody miscasts.As has been eloquently described in a previous thread our core units suck... and buffs to re-roll hits or wounds are vital to give us a slight fighting chance.

I'm not trying to say I'm an expert or that you're wrong, but a few of the things you've said actually concerned me; your vamp general doesn't have to be a level 4, you can normally afford to pay 200 points for a MN. Also, while I do like the lore of vamps, it's not as helpful as death for vamps in terms of synergy and offensive output. I don't think the buffs are vital, unless you intend to go head-to-head with other combat units.

I think practically all of the armies available should try to take a level 4 caster for the reasons stated above. I'm using a level 4 of death, a SGK General and a level 1 necrosis scroll caddy General backup in my 2500 list, and it works fine for me. I do think that multiple lower levels could work, but it doesn't fit my play style, which is the crux of the matter, what do YOU feel works better? How can you make it work?[/quote]

 

[heldantes]

Yeah bringing back 5 dire wolves and 5 black knights in one cast is great. I remember when my friends and I started out and that happened. We all had to re read the rules a couple of times. Now they joke that VC are broken.

As idi3 says though, alternatives can work. There come times after a cascading miscast that I feel having only the requisite lvl 1 Lore of Vamp general is the best way to go!

 

[Bane]

I took a lvl 3 to a tournament (with ME w/ Tome) and I had a bit of a rough time. Every army I played had a lvl 4 so while I was up 1 on casting, I was down 1 on dispel. The extra +1 up on an opponent would almost negate throwing an extra die in some instances. Also felt the lack of spells, as of course my lvl 1s both ran Invo to keep the fresh dead churning.

 

[Demian]

Getting a Lv 4 Caster is not a problem with VC. Other armies HAVE to pay for another character while we can have our Blender Lord also be a high level caster. Of course this has it's Pros and Cons.

Anyway, being a Lv 4 you can 2-dice almost every spell from Lore of Vampires: Invocation, Vanhel's, Hellish, Gaze and Raise Dead. Curse of Years requires 3-4 dice as well as Wind of Death (unaugmented).

You also dispel stuff easier.

Now, if you can squeeze a Lv4 Master Necromancer, then you can leave him to do all the casting, and just 1-dice stuff with your V.Lord if yoiu fear he'll miscast.

Bottom line is: Yeah, go for a Lv 4, the cheap(ish) way with a V. Lord and if you can afford the points limit, go for a Master Necro. At least make them Lv 3!

 

[Wolf Child]

I find that taking a level 4 in larger games is essential, unfortunately.To make matters worse it usually has to be your vamp general doing all the casting and risking those bloody miscasts.As has been eloquently described in a previous thread our core units suck... and buffs to re-roll hits or wounds are vital to give us a slight fighting chance.

I'm not trying to say I'm an expert or that you're wrong, but a few of the things you've said actually concerned me; your vamp general doesn't have to be a level 4, you can normally afford to pay 200 points for a MN. Also, while I do like the lore of vamps, it's not as helpful as death for vamps in terms of synergy and offensive output. I don't think the buffs are vital, unless you intend to go head-to-head with other combat units.

I think practically all of the armies available should try to take a level 4 caster for the reasons stated above. I'm using a level 4 of death, a SGK General and a level 1 necrosis scroll caddy General backup in my 2500 list, and it works fine for me. I do think that multiple lower levels could work, but it doesn't fit my play style, which is the crux of the matter, what do YOU feel works better? How can you make it work?

[/quote]
Hi idi3spwn,you raised some good points there, but as you said the crux of the matter is what you works for you and what fits your play style.I always want to go head to head with enemy combat units,that's the trouble!
I love the various blender lord builds and I usually field a baby blender alongside in my lists which rules out a level 4 necro. As for the lore of death, it can be devastating its true,I've been on the receiving end of it enough times! but I like the lore of vamps too much

 

[DominicJ]

My ogre slaughtermaster gets plus six basic and plus seven after a Successful cast.
I roll two dice and get a four, its now an eleven,
I can two dice pretty much anything.
You need three or four to stop me.

Its a huge advantage when brute forcing the phase

 

[The Sun King]

Be a level 4.
Unless you can be Batman, always be Batman.