Transformation Lord?

[vlad]

Hi there i was just thinking about the possibility of this being a viable option:
a lord purely to cast transformation of kadon in the lore of beasts which enables him to transform into a mountain chimera. To make sure he gets this spell off I gave him a power scroll, and had a necromancer thrall with the black periapt.
Question: If the Vampire Lord successfully transforms into a mountain chimera, does he retain vampire bloodline powers? If so he could take red fury which means in his transformed state he would be getting 4D6 hits with a potential for even more?
Thoughts please
Vlad

 

[Reaper]

Hi there i was just thinking about the possibility of this being a viable option:
a lord purely to cast transformation of kadon in the lore of beasts which enables him to transform into a mountain chimera. To make sure he gets this spell off I gave him a power scroll, and had a necromancer thrall with the black periapt.
Question: If the Vampire Lord successfully transforms into a mountain chimera, does he retain vampire bloodline powers? If so he could take red fury which means in his transformed state he would be getting 4D6 hits with a potential for even more?
Thoughts please
Vlad

Yes, he still have his bloodline powers, at least in 7th he had them. I thought about this build in 7th ed. But the problem is that in 7th you recieved all spells from chosen lore (talking about the bloodline power, can't remember it's name now), now you just use chosen lore, so no guarantee that you will have Transformation of Kadon spell

 

[Fodderboy]

Such a lord cannot be your general, as your general has to have Lore of Vamps.

You'll have to run a second vamp lord to run things.

Don't forget that any wounds taken while transformed are transferred back to you when you come back to vamp form, so make sure you have enough wounds to transform/dispel back.

 

[vlad]

Yes there is a second lord in the list who will be the general, this would work nicely at a sort of 4000 point level, maybe 3000. About the wounds thing I hadnt really thought about that :s how would it work on combat res also as technically he is no longer a vampire?

 

[arbogast]

Hi there i was just thinking about the possibility of this being a viable option:
a lord purely to cast transformation of kadon in the lore of beasts which enables him to transform into a mountain chimera. To make sure he gets this spell off I gave him a power scroll, and had a necromancer thrall with the black periapt.
Question: If the Vampire Lord successfully transforms into a mountain chimera, does he retain vampire bloodline powers? If so he could take red fury which means in his transformed state he would be getting 4D6 hits with a potential for even more?
Thoughts please
Vlad

And don't forget, the Power Scroll has been FAQ'd up and you cannot use it to cast the boosted version of a spell.

 

[Count Darvaleth]

He is still a vampire, he is still Undead, and still has all of his old special rules. Nowhere does it say to replace your old rules. This debate has been covered in some depth in our last book, so try and find one of the old topics first for clarification.

This combo is not at all effective in this book compared to our last one; for a start, our Lords should be using magic now our Lore is much better, PLUS there's no guarantee that you'll get Transformation, PLUS you need a second lord to take it, PLUS the enemy can just dispel it anyway so all that effort is fairly useless.

 

[Lynks]

Q: If a model is transformed, for example by the Transformation
of Kadon or Sivejir’s Hex Scroll, do their special rules stop
working along with their magic items and equipment?(Reference)
A: No

Your answer lies in the FAQ for the BRB which should be the first place to look when you have a question. The power scroll really isnt worth it in it's new form and it doesnt help you get the mountain chimera at all. The plan is really a big risk for not much reward unfortunately. Without the access to loremaster, I wouldnt risk it.

 

[drmooreflava]

Why would you need to have another lord?

If your vamp lord can't be your general.. Doesn't that mean the next highest leadership model that has the lore of vampires becomes your general instead?

Correct me if Im wrong.

 

[Chaos_Born]

No, you just have to take the lore of vampires on the highest ld model in the army.

 

[Burnanation]

If you're going to dump points into pulling it off, if you pick up a hero vamp level 2 magic and give him the lore of beasts, you can almost be sure to get the # 6 spell on the Lord if he's level 4.

Roll for the level 2 guy first, if he gets any spells 1 through 5 those are his, and your Lord will only have 4 remaining spells to pick up, one of which is #6.

If you roll double 6's for your hero vamp, you can pick spells 1 - 5 and then trade in level 6 for signature.

Now your lord will have 5 possible spells to roll for. Remember if you roll for a spell that's already been accounted for you get to pick the spell that you want. Double check your BRB under the spell generation so you can back it up.

Example, hero level 2 vamp rolled two 6's, so he picks spell one, and then trades in the other spell number six for signature spell.

Lord rolls for spells, the only way he won't get the # 6 spell is if he rolls 2, 3, 4, 5.

So there's a 1 in 6 chance that the level 2 vamp will roll 1 six, and there's less than a 1 out of 100 chance that your lord will roll exactly 2, 3, 4, 5.

Edit: changed my math hammer about

 

[vlad]

Yeah that seems like a good thing to try but I'm not sure spell generation works like that in 8th..

 

[Chaos_Born]

It does, everything that Burnanation said (except possibly the math hammer) was correct

 

[Burnanation]

It does, everything that Burnanation said (except possibly the math hammer) was correct

Yep, a typo, plus a small error in guestimation.

I meant to type 100, not 1000,

and it works out to be about 0.6% chance

Oh and this is how I worked out my math hammer,

2/6*4/6*3/6*2/6*1/6=.006=.6%

Vampire hero has 2 chances to roll a 6, then your lord has 4 dice to roll, the first has a 4 out of 6 chance to roll one of the unclaimed spells, then the next die has a 3 out 6, and so on.

 

[Medusas Guild]

I run a beast vamp for my second caster. I may not get the trans Kadon all the time, but Wildform and several others are WELL worth it.
Gguard with +1S/+1T or even on ghouls is nice!
Vamp with +3S/+3A sweet!!!!!!!
-1 to hit us in combat always sweet.

I enjoy it, even when i dont get Kadon!

Jay

 

[Chaos_Born]

Although I really like the signature spell, I'm not a fan beasts because it's so character centric. I'd much rather take light for an augmentative lore, plus if you're against daemons then you can burn him into the ground with banishment .

 

[Johnny-Crass]

I just dont like the fact that we have to pay so many points just to get a beasts supporting caster and the fact that he has to 3 dice the sig to get it off reliably. Now Shaow on the other hand... Miasma a unit that GG are fighting

 

[Chaos_Born]

Shadow is awesome, I like every spell there which is why I take it in every 2000+pts game

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Mind Razor does not help much sadly

 

[Chaos_Born]

I suppose yeah not anymore. But didn't you just love the ws7, ASF, strength 5 ghoul hordes back in the last book:devil2:

 

[Johnny-Crass]

I only ever played against the last book... So no I did not

 

[arbogast]

a lord purely to cast transformation of kadon in the lore of beasts which enables him to transform into a mountain chimera.
Question: If the Vampire Lord successfully transforms into a mountain chimera, does he retain vampire bloodline powers? If so he could take red fury which means in his transformed state he would be getting 4D6 hits with a potential for even more?
Thoughts please
Vlad

I'm actually going to try this out b/c of the potential that the lord can do a whopping 78 wounds in one round.

4D6 (24) attacks + 2D6 (12) breath weapon wounds = 36.
Red Fury = 36 more.
Thunderstomp D6= 6 more.
Total: 78 wounds!

Yeah, that's just the potential, but even if you halve that, it'll be well worth it! (And that's not even counting the rest of his unit yet).

I'm going to try it in 3k for fun.

 

[TobiasRathein]

That would be awesome to do, Arbo. Obviously it's highly, highly improbable you'll get nearly that many wounds, the damage potential is still high enough to whipe out an entire unit before it gets to swing.

That would be pretty bad ass.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

How does red fury work with a breath weapon?o.o

 

[TobiasRathein]

How does red fury work with a breath weapon?o.o

I would wager it doesn't. Still, that's a shit load of potential damage without it.

 

[Reaper]

How does red fury work with a breath weapon?o.o

I would wager it doesn't. Still, that's a shit load of potential damage without it.

Well, BRB specifies that using breath weapon in cc counts as additional cc attack. Red fury rule says "for every unsaved wound the Vampire causes in cc...", so according to these rules in should apply even to breath weapon. Breath weapon says that it can be used only once, but technically it is only one use. On the other hand, logically Red fury shouldn't apply to Breath weapons. o.o