WHFB - 7th Two questions: Stand and shoot and Templates

[Fallen Angel]

Hi there!

I have two questions, maybe they're obvious but at least not to me :tongue:

1) Say a unit of wolves charges a unir of archers armed with bows (range 24). The wolves are 16" away, do the archers get a penalty for long range as well as the stand and shoot penalty or does stand and shoot always count as short range?


2) A unit is hit by a template weapon and the center hole is over more than one base, are all models considered to be under the hole and hence suffers a higher strenght hit in case of a stone thrower?

Like this:

 

[TMS]

1) Yes, the defending unit will open fire as soon as possible, giving them the penalty for long range among others.

2) I'm not entirely sure about this one. The Big Rule Book states that "Any single model that lies directly under the centre...", but since all of those four targets would be under the centre, I'd say that they'll all suffer the double strength. I might have missed something here though..

 

[midean]

1) It would be -1 for long range and -1 for S&S.

2) Only one model is hit for being under the center point. As the "hole" is there for you to be able to see the rough middle point. There is only one center point.

 

[Reincus]

The archers will stand and shoot at the point where all of them are in range. If all are in range at 16", then they get the -1 for long range. If they have a champion with a crossbow pistol with a range of 8", then the wolves will stop at 8" and receive the volley. Instead of the -1 for long range and the -1 for Stand and Shoot, they only incur the -1 Stand and Shoot.

 

[Grish]

Also, this is important if you start in cover. If you're in a forest, with line of sight and charge out, for example with Black Knights, they will also get a -1 to hit because of cover. Very useful.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Yes, but not if the champ is armed with a pistol since the unit will take the shot at 8"? So, if I'm charging from 16" from a forest at a unit of handgunners they should get -1 stand and shoot, -1 long range anf -1 for sof cover BUT if the champ has a pistol the entire unit only gest -1 for stand and shoot since the shots are taken at 8". Have I got this right?

 

[Grish]

No, the handgunners shoot as soon as you're within 24", and get all their minuses, -3 total. The champ shoots when you're in 8" range with a -1. Again, quick rolling rule (rolling all your dice at once) is just a method of speeding up play, it's NOT how it actually happens.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Allright, thanks for clarifying!

Any more thought about my second question with the template situation?

 

[Kalandros]

That way of playing is always up for debate due to the Stand & Shoot rules:

"within range of EVERY firing model in the unit"

 

[Reincus]

I don't have my book handy, but I believe that a unit does not shoot until all models are in range, then the charging unit stops and takes the volley, then continues/panics from that point as applicable... with the exception of a failed charge, in which case the charging unit can only get as close as it's failed charge distance, and in this case the champion would lose his shots, but the archers would get theirs.

Again, I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time, but I think the rule quote that Kalandros provided explains it well.

 

[Fallen Angel]

So I had it right the first time?

Yes, but not if the champ is armed with a pistol since the unit will take the shot at 8"? So, if I'm charging from 16" from a forest at a unit of handgunners they should get -1 stand and shoot, -1 long range anf -1 for sof cover BUT if the champ has a pistol the entire unit only gest -1 for stand and shoot since the shots are taken at 8". Have I got this right?

 

[doombunny666]

Until all models that can possibly fire aka armed with a missle weapon are in range, LoS etc... then fir eis held so they fire at 8".

 

[Grish]

It looks like the store I played at all played it wrong; sorry for the confusion.

Makes the cost of an empire champion w. pistol make more sense now.

 

[Campbellstein]

with regards to the second question, i would stick with the "any single model" principle.

seeing how difficult it is to judge exactly where that circle should be, you could end up spending too much time on the single shot as obviously the attacker would LOVE to get 4x the double strength hits. Think of the following factors and consider that mere milimetres are the difference in what the circle hits.

1)You have measured to where the template lands starting at some point on the muzzle of the gun
2) you are holding the template maybe 4 inches off the ground with one wobbly hand while you roll the scatter dice with the other hand
3) you do the looks about right to system to match the angle on the dice to the angle you move the template (this angle changes depending on if the defender or attacker moves the template)
4) you are now hovering with the template, again 4 inches off the ground above your pointy minatures with your wobbly hand
5) you use your eyesight from about 6-12 inches above the template to see where the hole is (again, the angle you look through changes subtely depending on whether you are attacking or defending)

with these variables it is easy to see where those few millimitres of error may arise, so kill one model and save time.