As undead always combat reform on their unmodified leadership, does that mean zombies are always Ld2 when they do so, even with the general nearby? (unless they have a character in of course).
undead combat reforms
- Thread starter Yari
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another example of poor wording in the rules (tbh i hadnt noticed this before). a units unmodified Ld is defined as the highest Ld in the unit. hence you cant use the generals Ld unless he is actually in the unit.
Cant believe i hadnt noticed that this is true for steadfast units. :slapface:
(i am assuming that they meant that you do not get any negative modifications from combat results on the Ld test, but thats "RAI")
Cant believe i hadnt noticed that this is true for steadfast units. :slapface:
(i am assuming that they meant that you do not get any negative modifications from combat results on the Ld test, but thats "RAI")
p55, third paragraph: If your unit is steadfast (or has the unbreakable rule) the test is taken on the unit's unmodified leadership.
I always used inspiring presence too, maybe an FAQ for another unbreakable army?
I always used inspiring presence too, maybe an FAQ for another unbreakable army?
Yea, if you lost and want to reform the rule forces you into using your own LD. Yet something else they need to address.
I think LD on losing combat reforms and flaming attack re-rolls on building defenders are the two most incorrectly played thing in warhammer. I don't blame people though, GW simply don't play test their own rules enough to have figured out such things before releasing it.
I think LD on losing combat reforms and flaming attack re-rolls on building defenders are the two most incorrectly played thing in warhammer. I don't blame people though, GW simply don't play test their own rules enough to have figured out such things before releasing it.
Noobafrass
Grave Guard
Well, I used to believe that being Steadfast would grant you the Inspiring Presence for that reform, because of the Faq modifying the text, changing it to "Steadfast units don't apply the penalties to their Ld" instead of "using the unmodified Ld" (or something like that), however that point refers only to Break Tests.
Reforming amid Defeat is never covered by the FAQ, and so... both Unbreakable and Steadfast units will use the Unmodified Ld. to reform, which is silly.
Reforming amid Defeat is never covered by the FAQ, and so... both Unbreakable and Steadfast units will use the Unmodified Ld. to reform, which is silly.
Hanblack Nagash
Vargheist
makes the tomb kings alittle more useful since they have not too bad leadership for a dead guy.
since most of my charas are in units the forementioned issues dont really impact me.
but otherwise i can see peoples agrievances with this rule
since most of my charas are in units the forementioned issues dont really impact me.
but otherwise i can see peoples agrievances with this rule
Yari said:
Undead doesn't always combat reform on unmodified leadership. Its ldr test on what you lost by.
I never noticed this before either.
But the unmodified leadership only apply when Reforming amid defeat, so skeletons can still use inspiring presence to other types of reforms such as quick reform or reforming from victory.
Furthermore the Steadfast on page 54 had an errata replacing the whole paragraph about unmodified leadership and the IP with:
“Steadfast units don’t apply the difference in combat result scores to Break tests.”
So steadfast units must also refrain from using IP when reforming amid defeat.
Agree?
But the unmodified leadership only apply when Reforming amid defeat, so skeletons can still use inspiring presence to other types of reforms such as quick reform or reforming from victory.
Furthermore the Steadfast on page 54 had an errata replacing the whole paragraph about unmodified leadership and the IP with:
“Steadfast units don’t apply the difference in combat result scores to Break tests.”
So steadfast units must also refrain from using IP when reforming amid defeat.
Agree?
No,
With unmodified leadership taken out of Steadfast on pg 54 and pg 60. It was just missed. Steadfast test is defined in 2 places.
With unmodified leadership taken out of Steadfast on pg 54 and pg 60. It was just missed. Steadfast test is defined in 2 places.
Smogg, you are 100% correct.
Unmodified leadership is defined more currently in the BrB faq. IP is not included in calculating unmodified ld.
You don't need to make a ld test to reform from victory, so that point is moot.
Amid defeat, to reform, as we are unbreakable, we do not deduct CC result modifiers per the rule for steadfast. So, unless there is a char in unit you would use the base ld of said unit. If there is a char in unit, you would test using his ld per the rules in the faq for defining unmodified ld.
Unmodified leadership is defined more currently in the BrB faq. IP is not included in calculating unmodified ld.
You don't need to make a ld test to reform from victory, so that point is moot.
Amid defeat, to reform, as we are unbreakable, we do not deduct CC result modifiers per the rule for steadfast. So, unless there is a char in unit you would use the base ld of said unit. If there is a char in unit, you would test using his ld per the rules in the faq for defining unmodified ld.
Artiee said:
No, p55 states that when u reform amid defeat and are Unbreakable, the test is taken on the unit's unmodified leadership. So they always reform on their highest unit value then, no matter by how much they lose. It makes perfect sense as undead don't care how many guys in the unit just died.
Constant Drachenfels
Ghoul
Constant Drachenfels said:
I guess not. If they have the same amount of ranks or more than the opponent ie. are steadfast, they may test on LD of the general if he's within range - (p54 steadfast rule - may use IP of general if steadfast). If the zombies are not steadfast, they test on LD2. I think this is the way to interpet this.
Hanblack Nagash
Vargheist
lonit said:
But you missed out the key word. Unmodified.
You cannot use ip on unmodified leadership.
geordieclubba said:
So it would seem there are two different ways to interpret this. It says unmodified, so sure, no IP, however it also states that if steadfast u can use IP. So how do u decide which is correct?
My belief is the part about "unmodified" is refering to not adding any CR modifiers if you lost combat. Cause that is pretty much what we are talking about here. If you lose combat and are not steadfast you take what CR modifiers you lost by. And if your steadfast you don't and roll on your unmodified LD "no CR modifiers". Which you can IP for. Simplest way to me to play it.
Hanblack Nagash
Vargheist
midean said:
i think the way i play it is i am steadfast use that ability for combat reform after loss.
if i do not have steadfast but I am unbreakable after all i can test on unmodifed leadership.
sadly very little benefit to us. but if you use for example tomb kings. skeles leadership is 5 so they can benefit properly from the unbreakable unmodified combat reform, when we cannot.
It was errataed:
Page 60 – Multiple Combats and Break Tests, Steadfast.
Change “[...]can use its unmodified Leadership[...]” to
“[...]doesn’t apply the difference in combat result scores[...]”.
Change both references to “[...] any enemy units [...]” to “[...]
all enemy units [...]”.
Page 60 – Multiple Combats and Break Tests, Steadfast.
Change “[...]can use its unmodified Leadership[...]” to
“[...]doesn’t apply the difference in combat result scores[...]”.
Change both references to “[...] any enemy units [...]” to “[...]
all enemy units [...]”.