use for ghouls

[billybaker101]

Hey peeps. Ive just started using 35 ghouls in my list the idea being maybe something in our core could actually kill something but everything ive sent them against have destroyed them easily. Am I missing something? Anything with armour or a save just laughs as they crush them I lost almost 20 in one round. I pit them against ogres and lizardmen to no avail. For that many points I expected more

 

[Ripper]

Wyssan's wildform them!

 

[billybaker101]

That means I need to spend a shed load of points on a loremaster vamp just to make em worth taking though

 

[Adam_Barrow]

Add another five or ten, go ten wide, keep Invo close. Otherwise 6/7 wide with champ and a character or two.

Do you use Engines?

 

[robtion]

I nearly always run a unit of 40 in a horde for the extra rank of attacks, plus run a corpse cart behind them for asf and possible re-rolls. I usually also throw in a blender lord, SGK or at least a red fury vamp for extra offense, and a necro for IoN.

I find they work pretty well as an offensive unit in that formation in my limited experience.

 

[billybaker101]

I sometimes use a single engine and there is always a lv 1 necro near by. I havnt tried them in horde yet. I didnt realise I would have to spend so much time trying to get something out of them. I might just stick to tarpits they always seem to achieve there role

 

[Swoosh]

I nearly always run a unit of 40 in a horde for the extra rank of attacks, plus run a corpse cart behind them for asf and possible re-rolls. I usually also throw in a blender lord, SGK or at least a red fury vamp for extra offense, and a necro for IoN.

I find they work pretty well as an offensive unit in that formation in my limited experience.

Aren't you having problems with IF with all those eggs in a basket?

 

[Voltan]

Hello billybaker101

I agree with robtion on this one. Horde up or 7 wide is ideal for those poison attacks to strike. Yesterday i actually fielded a horde of 50 ghouls with champ, in horde formation of course, with my VL lvl 4 caster and wight king BSB alongside him. Necro riding the corpse cart just behind them so i could get Van hells off (timing of the spell is crucial - cast some other spells first to wittle down his dispell dice before you attempt van hells) the re-roll to hit makes a HUGE difference in my opinion.

I did not, however, use a ME as rare choice. I made sure my characters were kitted out to inflict enough wounds so that combat resolution swung my way. In my case i had to use some batswarm corpse cart ASF combo to bring the HE to heel.

DO NOT FORGET FEAR TESTS every round of close combat. Who knows, just might get it!

Good day

 

[Skittelz1981]

Ghouls are tricky.

-Expensive
-Not so killy
-Not that hard to kill.

What makes them shine is VDM+CorpseCart ASF. If you can succesfully cast IoN and VDM they can be golden, although you still need to be wary about what you send them up against. Dont put em in a combat that will make too many of them die. I would strongly suggest a setup where you have at least 1 necro with power stone. Just to make sure you get those extra pdice when you really need it. Also having 2 necros within 12"but preferably 6" is kind of a must tbh, that greatly increases your chances to land at least 1 IoN, which is crucial to their survival against a tougher enemy unit.
I agree with fielding a horde, preferably even more than 40 to ensure you keep the ranks up as long as possible since they dont have banner/musicians. Sticking a Wightking-bsb in can help.

 

[billybaker101]

Ok so there is a lot more to these guys than I realised. I hear what your saying about vdm but I dont have a cart in my list and I wouldn't want to bring one just to get a core choice to actually kill something. Its a shame coz I like the models. Ithink ill just swap em for skeletons the lack of a banner and a save doesnt seem worth the trade

 

[countulrich]

Ithink ill just swap em for skeletons the lack of a banner and a save doesnt seem worth the trade

By all means you can do that; my tournament list core is 2 units of skellys, 4x5 wolves and a 20 man zed bunker. However, that being said, ghouls have their place and are worth the trade ... they are our only core unit that is ever going to kill anything.

Zombies do nothing but die, raise up again and die some more. You can never even contemplate combo charging with zombies as combat res will kill whatever additional units you put in. Skeletons die slightly slower, and might take a couple more enemy models with them. Ghouls on the other hand can do some serious damage with their poison, particularly if you get rerolls on them (but even without it).

 

[Siegfried290]

As said before, they're the only core that might actually kill something. Especially in high points where you need 600+ points of core, there's only so much skeletons / zombies you can take before they start getting in each others way as anvil units. At that point, might as well take something that will fill up your core quite fast and maybe actually kill something while doing so.

 

[countulrich]

As said before, they're the only core that might actually kill something. Especially in high points where you need 600+ points of core, there's only so much skeletons / zombies you can take before they start getting in each others way as anvil units. At that point, might as well take something that will fill up your core quite fast and maybe actually kill something while doing so.

Zeds are definately NOT anvils. Combo charge and you die from CR. They are tarpits. Skellys are pretty much the same as well. Put some character support with skelly and maybe it is a feasable anvil, but then those characters take points away from your hammers. Our anvil unit is CH.

 

[Siegfried290]

Tarpit, that's the term I was looking for yes Please replace all references to anvil with tarpit

 

[billybaker101]

Yeah I think my problem is that I love horrors they are imo the best unit we have and feel there smaller counterpart should do something similar bit of a tall order though I guess. So who would be a good target for them?

 

[Adam_Barrow]

So who would be a good target for them?

High Toughness, low Armor Save.

 

[billybaker101]

What units fit that bill?

 

[Adam_Barrow]

Orcs, for one. Some Daemons. Etc. I'd actually like to see some math hammer for 40 Ghouls vs. a comparably costed new Slayers horde.

 

[benfm]

I love my ghoul horde. I don't have a corpse cart but I regularly use them with VDM and the other reroll spell in Vamp lore, i forget its name.

Absolutely decimates low armor targets. I wouldn't put them up against high armor targets though, that's just asking for trouble.
I once had a horde with no character with both of our augments rout and destroy my opponents main Ogre bus. Was very funny...

 

[Ripper]

That means I need to spend a shed load of points on a loremaster vamp just to make em worth taking though

...

A level 1 vamp with forbidden lore is 130 points. Wildform is the signature spell for beasts, so you just pick it. T5 ghouls in a big enough block are pretty hard to shift.

 

[countulrich]

Basically the prime target for ghouls is any non elite infantry.

 

[billybaker101]

Cheers for all the pointers guys this is great I love the beast vamp idea might drop the grave guard make a ghoul horde with a vl and beast vamp with cart in tow and see how it plays

 

[RarerMonsters]

That means I need to spend a shed load of points on a loremaster vamp just to make em worth taking though

...

A level 1 vamp with forbidden lore is 130 points. Wildform is the signature spell for beasts, so you just pick it. T5 ghouls in a big enough block are pretty hard to shift.

Given the high cast value, you'll want to take it to a Level 2, plus either an arcane item or protective item.

And using expensive characters to make weak core worth taking is the heart of being a VC player.

 

[billybaker101]

+ Lords + (501pts)

* Vampire Lord
Heavy Armour, Lore of the Vampires, Quickblood (*), Red Fury (*), Wizard Level 4
* Magic Items
AB - Book of Arkhan, BRB - Enchanted Shield, BRB - Sword of Might, BRB - Talisman of Preservation


+ Heroes + (269pts)

* Necromancer
Lore of the Vampires, Wizard Level 1
BRB - Dispel Scroll


* Vampire
Forbidden Lore (*), Great Weapon, Heavy Armour, Lore of the beasts Shield, Wizard Level 2


+ Core + (648pts)

* Crypt Ghouls Champion, 38x



5x Dire Wolf

5x Dire Wolf


* Zombies
Standard Bearer, 24x


* Zombies (101pts)
Standard Bearer, 32x Zombie


+ Special + (737pts)

* Corpse Cart

* Crypt Horrors
8x Crypt Horror



5x Hexwraith


* Spirit host

Champion, 3x Vargheist




* Terrorgheist

 

[Ripper]

Cast Wyssan's on those crypt horrors and... HNNNNNNNNG