Vamp Lord on Dragon builds (Finally)...

[TheTrans]

So with the awesome advent of 50% lords and Heroes it has finally opened up the gates to rock a viable vamp lord on a dragon, hell even with a Master Necro aswell.

I've played around with a few build ideas, really both mainly running off of a blender build, the one that really struck me as a possibly bastard thing was this:

Vamp Lord
LVL 1 (Vamp, Death or Shadow (as why not UL)
Heavy Armour
Shield
Great Weapon/Lance (not sure which)
Red Fury
Quick Blood
Beguile
Tal of Pres
Nightshroud
OTS
Zombie Dragon

So by my reasoning, any one in contact with the zombie dragons stupidly large base would then be at -1 to hit with no positive strength modifiers and ASL. Then you can choose any one of those (probably the champion or a killy character, then pop on beguile and supp tears to suit.

Would this not really slap elves about a fair bit, and also give the vamp lord a leg up against certain ASF killy characters etc?

Then if you wanted to be crazy run this bad boy:


Vamp Lord
LVL 4 Beasts
Heavy Armour
Shield
Great Weapon/Lance (not sure which)
Red Fury
Quick Blood
Forbidden Lore
Tal of Pres
Nightshroud
OTS
Zombie Dragon

As you can see here, just buff him up with all kinds of Beast magic (Wyssans on him and a dragon, yes please)..

Any way thoughts on those and possibly improvements good sirs??

 

[GhoulKing505]

The only problem I see with the lance is charging in and getting stuck in a challenge with a unit champion. That can be countered by using a unit of dire wolves with a champion. Charge them both into a unit and accept the challenge with your dog.

I made a list surrounding this theme that I want to playtest. I made my vamp lord a lvl 4 of vamps. I also decided to just go all out on offense and forego the TofP and get the ogre blade with the other tricksters shard. Then I added a lvl 4 high liche priest of light. WS and I 10 vamp lord AND zombie dragon anyone? Now most things need 6s to hit you. And elves aren't getting rerolls against the zombie dragon. Get off the extra attack and asf spell as well and there's nothing that can stop this guy in close combat.

In my list I took four units of five dogs. Two of the units have champions. I also brought a big block of swiftness skeles to tie things up and also in case my dragon dies out from underneath my vamp lord. I then took a bunker of horse archers for my liche to bunker in. I'm still debating about switching them out for normal cav though. We'll see.
My special section saw two units of 5 hex wraiths with a unit of 6 crypt horror goalkeepers to guard my zombie dragon and terrorgheist that I brought for at leasr the first turn.

The idea of the list is to be super mobile while still being awesome at killing things. Tons of target saturation should keep my stuff alive long enough to win its points back and then some.

I'll be play testing it. I hope it works well. The only problem, other than the obvious cannon, I see is wood elves. I feel like they'd destroy this list...

 

[TheTrans]

Hmm, I must say I like the idea of darting a unit of dogs with the champ at the front in, that is quite the good idea, the list I was thinking of running was something like this:

Lords

Vamp Lord w/
Red Fury
Quick Blood
Beguile
NightShrowd
Tal of Pres
OTS
Great Weapon/Lance
Shield
Heavy Armour
Lvl 1 Vamps Maybe Death
Zombie Dragon

Master Necro w/
Lvl 4 Vamps
Black Periapt

Core

30 Crypt Ghouls w/
Champion

5 Dire Wolves

5 Dire Wolves

20 Zombies w/
Banner

20 Skeleton Archers w/
Full Command

Special

3 Varghiests

4 Varghiests

Rare

5 Bloodknights w/
Standard, Flaming Banner

Varghulf

Screaming Skull catapult

 

[estwheadn]

I'm not sure about the blood knights. If you're already paid the $100+ to buy the unit then by all means field them in every game, but otherwise I feel like they die too easily. Unless you are planning to combo charge them with the dragon because they can all take challenges. But even then it kind of limits what your dragon can charge and you are better off combo charging with the vargheists

also you can't have redfury, quick blood and forbidden lore that would be awesome though.

My dragon setup would look like this:

red fury, quickblood, dread knight, summon creatures, HA, shield, Tali of preservation, glittering scales, The Other Trickster's shard, sword of striking, lvl 4 lore of death

You pretty much have to accept that this guy is going to find himself in challenges. So with this setup anything under ws9 is hitting him on 6s and he's hitting on 2s. With red fury, ots and the dragon he will very likely be getting the +5 overkill and win combat/tie combat. (even if he loses by 1 you can just take the unstable wound on the dragon). Hopefully by the time he's in combat you have used death magic to take out the potential challengers in the unit, but if not you should be able to win the challenge and then rip the unit apart the next turn. If you combo charge him into a unit with dogs then you have to break them in that turn which is hard because your vampire lord is now compensating for the cr leaked by the challenge and the rest of the wolf unit.

 

[Demian]

I vouch for the Lance !

Why? because:

R&F infantry troops usually have low armor, so Str 5 is enough to kill them. Also, you have a Dragon! Thunderstomp em!

Cavalry are in such low models that the first charge with a V. Lord and a Z Dragon should be enough to break them, or at least cripple them so much they won't stand a chance in further CC phases. Most have Str 4 and won't wound the Dragon so easily (since he's the easiest to kill). For everything else, you still have Str 6 Dragon attacks.

Monsters usually don't stand a chance against a V. Lord

M. Infanrtry, Cavalry, beasts: well those usually are not fielded in large numbers, except with Ogres, also, they shouldn't have much armor (in the case of M.I at least. M. Cavalry should have no more than 3-4 models, tops, easily broken on the charge + Dragon). But there are better ways to deal with them, via Purple Sun, for instance.

I mean that, while Quickblood + Great Weapon + Nightshroud form a good combo, it only affects enemy models (not the whole Unit, as the Frost Phoenix does) and we really need that ASF to re-roll to Hit (my greatest enemy while throwing dice). So I vote for a Lance (plus it gives the Vamp a Shield, one needed if coupled with OTS for a better AS).


Plus... this guy is ctually the only guy capable of downing Karl Franz Ascendant with (Swarm of Flies + Beguile)

 

[estwheadn]

I vouch for the Lance !

Plus... this guy is ctually the only guy capable of downing Karl Franz Ascendant with (Swarm of Flies + Beguile)

ya lance for re-rolls for sure. My vl with the standard build: rf, qb, ob, ots, tali of preservation was able to beat kfa in a challenge last weekend! Granted I rolled really well on my ward saves (saved five 4+'s)

 

[Demian]

He's extremelly overpowered with his mount hitting with Ghal Maraz (I like the combined Wounds, but dislike the joined attacks =/ that seems really weird), but our guy can get the job done.

And you saved way too many wounds with the ward D: he should've hit you less with the swarm.


Another way to field the ZD is with the Glittering Scales, for less AS but much more protection in CC, both for you and the ZD. We frown upon this because it feels like our vampires are made of Twilight and that will just not do!

 

[Blutsauger]

Consider the Charmed Shield to help protect against warmachines! I've used my lord on a dragon a lot, since I love the model and the key I've found is to use his mobility to pick the best fights. Look for fights where you can destroy the enemy and over-run into another combat, to get him to fight twice in a turn. Avoid anything with big choppy characters and hard to kill units like 1+ AS and things like Bloodcrushers until you can focus on them with some other units and some debuff spells. I remember in one game I got Doom and Darkness off on my opponents gut star. He didn't see the harm in letting it off, but I baited him to charge my Lord on Dragon in his own turn. I challenged, obliterated his champion, and he rolled his break test with a nonchalant grin. Until I reminded him he was at -3 LD, and his unit broke and was run down So leave those Chaos Warriors and Lord alone until you can hit them with some spells, your Black Knights and the Dragon all in the same turn.

Oh, and try and pick on infantry to take advantage of your Thunderstomp!

 

[TheTrans]

We can't have a twilightian vampires haha.

Ah as to the blood knights, never leave home without them, use them as a missile to either cripple something, or smash something the vamp won't enjoy (anything with regen as it neuters the OTS). Yeah fair do's on the lance, as S5 will slap a lot of things around also.

Excellent points Blutsauger, yeah all about the infantry smashing, with a flank...

Used this guy the other day (NS for OB) hit a mates flank that had sigvald in it (who is fucking nuts anyway) and he looks down, sighs and says 'I have to challenge you'. Sigvald made a good crack at it, but there was now way 3 wounds where dealing with that amount of attacks...

 

[countwuzzy]

Playing a 2v2 in a couple weeks. VC and DE vs. HE and LM, 2500 pts per army.
Since my team mate is bringing the magic castors. I'm bringing a vampire lord lvl1 on zombie dragon, RF QB NS TP OTS lance heavy armor shield.
And I'm bringing a goul king lvl1 on terrorgiest, scream sword and AODM.

I then am bringing 2 units of 6 Skelly horse archers, 4 units of 20 Skelly archers, 3 units of hex wraiths all with hell wraiths, skull catapult with upgrade(had 30 extra points)

My two lords on flying monsters. Will probably stick close together with hex wraith posse(s) near by. Horse archers are scouts and will void any vanguard they try to use. And my 80 archers are support to my dark elf ally.

 

[TheTrans]

Let us know how it goes brosef!! Tag teaming people with the dual lord combo will ruin people!!

 

[MorgretBonesmasher]

looks like a very nasty list. I'll try it with proxy in some time to come.

 

[GhoulKing505]

So I just got through with a game against Lizardmen with this kit for my Dragonlord of Death:

Vamp Lord
Red fury, quickblood, beguile, talisman of preservation, nightshroud, the other tricksters shard, ha, shield, and mounted on a zombie dragon

The entire game he took a single wound... from combat res. It was the dragon that took the wound. He's super hard to wound. Only supporting attacks strike at initiative and with strength bonuses. Any heroes or champions get beguiled. Base contact people are all -1 to hit. If someone does manage to hit and wound him I have a 2+, 4++. He's a tank that dishes out tons of damage.

 

[MorgretBonesmasher]

I play mainly versus skaven with lots of cannons so this zombie dragon will be a massive target. Cant transport my zombie dragon yet, maybe to use vs a chaos army. Should I use Blood Knights in combination with the dragon set up?

Morgret.

 

[TheTrans]

Good to hear he wrecked face mate!!

Well in my list I have 2 lots of varghiests, varghulf and blood knights to all gang charge stuff on a flank, so you could probs put the varghulf in also to do some damage...

 

[Emicrania]

I love the idea and the fluff with all vampiric units, my only terror is,what happen if we get the almighty lord blasted turn 1?!?!

which this lead to a really nice idea for this wekeend match!
I really wanna play the bad boy,but i have some considerations:

1) Is this the case where we should issue challenges?
2) in this case, when we´ll win them ( cause yes,we will!) does the dragon attacks all the same , for overkill CR, even if the foe die under the Vamp attacks?
3) Can Thunderstomp be issued in challenge? In that case does it issue only one hit or d6?

 

[TheTrans]

All attacks will go against the challenger, which is painful, but if you combo charge with Bloods, they can soak a challenge I believe.

 

[Emicrania]

I was thinking that,in a case of a challenge,in this case some elvboy, 5 attacks RF with GW and night shroud and Beguille and 5 dragon attacks and the thunderstomp (is a d6 or just 1?) is gonna be easy,easy, at least 6 wounds.
Even against an horse is -6 LD.
Good luck pass that test..

 

[Emicrania]

Overkill is my thought here

 

[MorgretBonesmasher]

Thunderstomp is D6.

 

[John Rainbow]

2) in this case, when we´ll win them ( cause yes,we will!) does the dragon attacks all the same , for overkill CR, even if the foe die under the Vamp attacks?
3) Can Thunderstomp be issued in challenge? In that case does it issue only one hit or d6?

Your dragon is part of the challenge. Remember however that in CC you fight in initiative steps. Your dragon is a lower initiative than the vamp. So, if your vamp kills the enemy in the challenge the dragon does not get to attack as the challenger is already dead when you reach that initiative step. You only get to use thunderstomp if the challenger is still alive at initiative step 1 in a similar fashion. This is all explained in the BRB in monsters/mounts and challenges in the characters section.

 

[Emicrania]

Thanks @John Rainbow , I have the brb at the local were we play and the 2 (!!!!) laptop at my home are broke. That's why I was wondering ,so here we have a problem.
In any case we attack a smart player (and that is bound to happen,sooner or later),he is gonna challenge us with his phony champ and die. Considering a simple unit with 4 ranks and banner,that means we should do at least 4 wounds with the vampire,which is.... Meh...

 

[John Rainbow]

Thanks @John Rainbow , I have the brb at the local were we play and the 2 (!!!!) laptop at my home are broke. That's why I was wondering ,so here we have a problem.
In any case we attack a smart player (and that is bound to happen,sooner or later),he is gonna challenge us with his phony champ and die. Considering a simple unit with 4 ranks and banner,that means we should do at least 4 wounds with the vampire,which is.... Meh...

Yeah. It can be a problem. If you have a bad round of CC, you will end up losing purely due to static res and banner, etc.

 

[Emicrania]

So that's why is good to charge with another unit with a champ that can issue the challenge,right?

 

[GhoulKing505]

Just start adding champions to some or all of your dog units. Combo charge with them and accept the challenge with the dog.