Vamp Lords on Hellsteeds

[13ingo]

I see a lot of people run their vamp lords on hellsteeds, but was just wondering how they use them/what benefit this gives. Do you run them as part of the unit of knights, or just next to them for the 4+ LOS? And, if you run them with the unit, is the vlord able to jump out and charge something different to the knights in the same turn?

Also, slightly not on topic with this board, but what do you use for your hellsteed conversions?

 

[Banat]

ATM I just use the Mounted Mannfred model and place a Vargheist wing next to it to remind my opponent that he's flying.

I decided to try running my VL on a hellsteed because I was getting fed up of Searing Doom or Shem's Gaze obliterating my Black Knights before they had a chance to do any proper damage in combat.

Giving him fly and going solo makes him hugely more maneuverable. This means you can maximise chances of getting off charges into flanks or rears. He's tough enough to go chaff hunting and warmachine hunting on his own, and has the speed to do so. Getting him storming through chaff and warmachines asap also reduces threat from magic missiles.

With things like a TG/ME, Hexwraiths and Vargheists on the table, one little dude on a horse can actually be quite forgettable, and your opponent can forget to plan strategy for him.

 

[GhoulKing505]

To answer your question about charges: if the character charges out of the unit then his unit will not be able to charge. It's in the character section of the BRB under the characters leaving units portion. The unit will be able to march though.

Hope that helped.

 

[Bullhax]

If you have enough target saturation, as banat said getting shot by cannons isn't actually that likely the footprint of the hellsteed is very small so bigger based monsters and the like will often draw the fire of those. And it does free you from taking the BK unit. Flanking a unit in combat with some CH's is rarely very risky they don't give up CR that easily..

 

[Banat]

If you support him with 2x5+ Hexwraiths, can fit a book of Arkhan on him and he's level 4, you've potentially got some very very damaging tactics there. With lvl4 you'll *probably* get Vanhels, and with the BoA you have a second one. Since they're within 12" of your general, your hexwraiths can march, so they move 16" through a unit each, then bubble vanhels both of them to move BACK through those units then you can get one more vanhels off on one of them to move it through a third time.

 

[countwuzzy]

Addressing the conversion of a hellsteed you can also see what folks have done for dark elf dark pegusus.. Marathi's dark peg is ok. But pricy. Here is a conversion video I'm going to try and follow. (My cousin needs some dark pegs)

Also I'm proud of my hellsteed conversion. Pics are up in the "show us your vampire lord" thread, page 19 or so.

I used the high elf steed from the general on steed kit. And chaos manticore wings. Then the VL from terrorgiest kit

Good luck with any conversions. Please share.

For strategy. You can probably use a lord on hellsteed anyway you want. As long as your aggressive you'll cause your opponent to poop. I prefer hex wraiths for ethereal 4+ look out sir. 50% chance a cannon ball hits nothing.. Unless it's a ruinic cannon. But most likely only 1 hex will die, instead of your lord. Fair trade.

 

[Bullhax]

If you support him with 2x5+ Hexwraiths, can fit a book of Arkhan on him and he's level 4, you've potentially got some very very damaging tactics there. With lvl4 you'll *probably* get Vanhels, and with the BoA you have a second one. Since they're within 12" of your general, your hexwraiths can march, so they move 16" through a unit each, then bubble vanhels both of them to move BACK through those units then you can get one more vanhels off on one of them to move it through a third time.

Solid loadout, a crazy fast and mobile army too.. Hexwraiths are auto include for me I love them to death

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

So I've been running a solo hellsteed vampire for a while now, and here are some thoughts. For reference my build before the weekend was:
Red Fury, Quickblood
Hellsteed, heavy armour, shield
Ogre Blade, tal of pres, dragonhelm (thoughts on this later), potion of foolhardiness
Level 1-4 vampires (depending on the list).

1) You'll actually find fewer opportunities to charge out than you'd think, and it's risky as hell. Throwing him solo into big blocks of infantry is super dangerous, especially when they're carrying a tanky character who can mitigate his ACR output. Bretonnian lords are terrifying, for instance, as they often come with a 1+RR 5++, meaning that against you he's only down to a 5+5+5++ which he can make all damned day (will save 70% of incoming wounds, with a decent chance to skew for more).

What's worse is that he can be caught out with a chargeout from one of those characters, hitting him in the flank. If they stalled him on a champion last turn they're probably still sitting at max SCR, so say 1-3 ranks plus banner. Throw a charge and flank onto that and you're looking at 3-5 SCR to overcome before attacks. Tanky lord challenges him out. That's a real chance for your VL to pop.

2) THAT SAID, when you do get those opportunities it's game winning. People will protect against the charge from the infantry, but often won't see the 10"+swiftstride charge out. Can be very powerful, situationally. You just have to be VERY careful and learn lots of restraint.

Some examples of successes have come when I charged over a unit of chaff to punk out a CD demonsmith and the flame cannon behind him. That kept me in combat through his shooting/magic phase, only to reform and take his warriors in the rear on my turn. Add skeletons in the front and I'm sitting at charge+rear+three ranks+banner = 7 SCR before we even swing.

It's great against skaven as well, for charging out over their bricks to tag the bunker in behind. Yeah you'll be stuck for a few turns killing champions and chaff characters but once you punk his BSB and general that army is toast. Get a unit of vargs in as well and it's curtains.

3) And by "charge out" I absolutely mean that he should be parked inside a unit of infantry, dogs, or otherwise against most armies. Running him in a flanking force is nice, but he doesn't like bolt throwers or massed archer fire very much. Remember that he only has a 3+ armour save, which you can improve to 2+ at best. Run with hex wraiths will give him a 4+ LoS ontop of that but...the hex wraiths will get cleared out much quicker than you'd like and they're a lot of points. You're probably wanting to run 6+champ in order to give something to keep your vampire lord out of challenges so that the's blending rank and file like a boss.

4) I'd consider running him with at least one terrorgheist, so that they can catch cannonballs for him. Vargheists are also good in a pinch. My list is more reactionary, and I run him with 6 crypt horrors just for their catching mitts as well. However...

5) This doesn't protect you against stonethrowers, which hit a LOT more than you'd like. And once they hit and wound you're suddenly sitting on a coinflip chance of losing your vampire lord. Big deal. I lost my VL twice to stonethrowers during my tournament this past weekend, which convinced me to drop his 2+ save in favour of a charmed shield. You can hide him in units a / near hex wraiths to protect him from shooting. You can't hid him really anywhere to protect him from stonethrowers.

6) Don't stick him in horde units. Not being able to make way is really frustrating, and leads you to all sorts of tricky situations. Learn the rules for challenges and combat reforms like the back of your hand. Also the rules for charging (must charge to maximize models in combat on BOTH sides, meaning it's impossible to charge the flank of his 20mm unit without touching him).

 

[13ingo]

If you support him with 2x5+ Hexwraiths, can fit a book of Arkhan on him and he's level 4, you've potentially got some very very damaging tactics there. With lvl4 you'll *probably* get Vanhels, and with the BoA you have a second one. Since they're within 12" of your general, your hexwraiths can march, so they move 16" through a unit each, then bubble vanhels both of them to move BACK through those units then you can get one more vanhels off on one of them to move it through a third time.

Not too familiar with hex wraith rules, do they only have to clip the unit to get all the hits off, or actually run right through? (i.e. can I zig zag through to the side, then the rear?)

5) This doesn't protect you against stonethrowers, which hit a LOT more than you'd like. And once they hit and wound you're suddenly sitting on a coinflip chance of losing your vampire lord. Big deal. I lost my VL twice to stonethrowers during my tournament this past weekend, which convinced me to drop his 2+ save in favour of a charmed shield. You can hide him in units a / near hex wraiths to protect him from shooting. You can't hid him really anywhere to protect him from stonethrowers.

I'd never considered how good the charmed shield would be for stonethrowers, just gotta hope they don't hit me with something else first I guess.

 

[Banat]

Fortunately my meta isn't super into Stone throwers. With this new list format I will either try and run 2x5 hexes and 3 Vargs or 2x3 Vargs and 5 hexes.

I've been running a fairly defensive Lord build that I got from @Rizzo. Can't remember exact details off the top of my head but its worth pointing out that the Trickster's helm forces opponents to reroll ALL hits (or wounds, can't remember). This includes shooting, warmachines etc. With mundane shooters you can use your Hexes to screen your lord, as they'll provide soft cover. I'm not sure what the rules would be if they tried to shoot through two successive screens of Hexes in front of a Lord, whether the soft cover stacks. 2+ against shooting, 4++ and reroll hits/wounds.

@13ingo Hexes are fast cav, meaning only one needs to pass over the unit in movement. In reality they would swoop down into single file before fanning back out after hitting the unit. And don't forget they're completely ethereal meaning they can right RIGHT THROUGH terrain obstacles such as buildings and they don't take difficult terrain tests when riding through woods etc. Parking them behind scenery to prevent magic missile line of sight, then charging them through the scenery to attack (or doing your soul strider movement) can greatly improve longevity of the unit.

 

[13ingo]

Fortunately my meta isn't super into Stone throwers. With this new list format I will either try and run 2x5 hexes and 3 Vargs or 2x3 Vargs and 5 hexes.

I've been running a fairly defensive Lord build that I got from @Rizzo. Can't remember exact details off the top of my head but its worth pointing out that the Trickster's helm forces opponents to reroll ALL hits (or wounds, can't remember). This includes shooting, warmachines etc. With mundane shooters you can use your Hexes to screen your lord, as they'll provide soft cover. I'm not sure what the rules would be if they tried to shoot through two successive screens of Hexes in front of a Lord, whether the soft cover stacks. 2+ against shooting, 4++ and reroll hits/wounds.

@13ingo Hexes are fast cav, meaning only one needs to pass over the unit in movement. In reality they would swoop down into single file before fanning back out after hitting the unit. And don't forget they're completely ethereal meaning they can right RIGHT THROUGH terrain obstacles such as buildings and they don't take difficult terrain tests when riding through woods etc. Parking them behind scenery to prevent magic missile line of sight, then charging them through the scenery to attack (or doing your soul strider movement) can greatly improve longevity of the unit.

Yeah these hexwraiths are certainly sounding better than I originally thought. I have 3 boxes of black knights/hexwraiths coming that I was planning to make all black knights.. Might have to make 5x hexwraiths though to try em out. Do they still have to pass a leadership to march within 8" of an enemy? - Granted it should be pretty easy to considering I'll be within generals presence

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

Fortunately my meta isn't super into Stone throwers. With this new list format I will either try and run 2x5 hexes and 3 Vargs or 2x3 Vargs and 5 hexes.

It only takes one. They hit 1/3rd of the time, and kill you 2/3rds of the time if you fail your save. It's not insignificant.

I've been running a fairly defensive Lord build that I got from @Rizzo. Can't remember exact details off the top of my head but its worth pointing out that the Trickster's helm forces opponents to reroll ALL hits (or wounds, can't remember). This includes shooting, warmachines etc. With mundane shooters you can use your Hexes to screen your lord, as they'll provide soft cover. I'm not sure what the rules would be if they tried to shoot through two successive screens of Hexes in front of a Lord, whether the soft cover stacks. 2+ against shooting, 4++ and reroll hits/wounds.

Theres a fine balance to strike between defense and offense. Solo vampire lords die as often by whiffing in combat and crumbling to SCR as they do against actually being dragged down in combat. It's tough to say where that line is, but I tend to stick with the "kill him before he kills me" philosophy.

EDIT: you get hard-cover once (-2) and the 4+ LoS! once. Doubling up does mean that a magic missile wiping one to below 5 rank-and-file (remember this doesn't include the champ) doesn't get rid of the LoS save.

@13ingo Hexes are fast cav, meaning only one needs to pass over the unit in movement. In reality they would swoop down into single file before fanning back out after hitting the unit. And don't forget they're completely ethereal meaning they can right RIGHT THROUGH terrain obstacles such as buildings and they don't take difficult terrain tests when riding through woods etc. Parking them behind scenery to prevent magic missile line of sight, then charging them through the scenery to attack (or doing your soul strider movement) can greatly improve longevity of the unit.

[/quote]

While true, this isn't always possible. Not everyone uses terrain large enough to hide units from after the enemy mage has moved.

And the prevelance of wood elves has led to a MASSIVE resurgence of magic missiles, in my experience. Everybody I played this weekend had some way of dealing with ethereal. The trick is to rely on target saturation to your advantage. Also scroll of shielding is ace.

 

[Banat]

Theres a fine balance to strike between defense and offense. Solo vampire lords die as often by whiffing in combat and crumbling to SCR as they do against actually being dragged down in combat. It's tough to say where that line is, but I tend to stick with the "kill him before he kills me" philosophy.

Which makes it extra important that you pick and choose your fights correctly, and with the maneuverability of a 20" fly move and not having to worry about wheeling etc, you can reasonably do that.

If your Lord IS charging into a massed rank and file block then it should be an enemy unit already bogged down in combat from the front, and your Lord should be hitting the flank or ideally the rear.

 

[countwuzzy]

Another quick conversion tip. This time in hex wraiths..
If your cheap like me. You can put hex wraiths on regular tomb kings skeleton steeds. Thus getting 10 models out of the black knight hex wraith kit. Just a thought.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

My Vargheists could easily be run as Hellsteed vamps. Link to my plog in the sig. Page 2 or 3, I believe. Hexies steed, varg wings, coven throne ladies.