The Old World Vampire Counts and Tomb King Faction Performance

Performance as of 3rd November 2025

Well, Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts look to be holding pretty well, neither overpowered or underpowered. In terms relative power they are still trending towards top tier, being just over the mean. That said, there's some heavy skew at the top with Grand Cathay which are clearly problematic. I've heard a lot of tourneys have introduced extra controls, especially around their Lanterns, but looking at this it doesn't appear to be enough to bring them in-line. Warriors of Chaos and O&G look to be very well balanced considering the number of appearances and the faction performance.

For us though, out of the two, Tomb Kings are performing better, and with a lot more presentation at Tournaments this suggests a lot more confidence in the results.


faction-performance-2025-11-03-162922.webp
faction-appearances-2025-11-03-162918.webp
 
  • Like
Reactions: Unas the slayer
One thing to note is that there is a toggle for 'include renegades' which sets whether or not to include results using the Square Based community/homebrew legends pdf faq & errata document. setting this to 'on' knocks vamp counts up a bit relative to other factions in appearance rate. The site treats 'renegade' versions as separate factions from the pure legacy pdfs when working out relative win rates... though this is a somewhat complicated comparison. Are vamp counts much stronger as renegades (I don't think so as there are few changes for us in particular & some of our changes are nerfs), or are some dedicated vamp count players specifically seeking out events that allow the renegade rules? Still, it's interesting stuff to look at.
 
That is quite interesting, as you say Sception, the vampire changes in renegades are minor compared other other factions so it potentially feels less like it's the rules, are more that's what players are using so the data skews that way :thinking_an:

I might have to have another look and see much is renegades usage, as its interesting in general that official tournaments are supporting a 3rd party update which historically not the norm from what I remember
 
There have been times when community stuff broke through. 6th edition dark elves had a pretty dire army book, and a homebrew errata document circulated via druchii.net became popular enough to see adoption via some independent events before eventually being canonized outright in white dwarf. Also there was a homebrew chaos dwarf army book during 7th edition that saw wide adoption by independent events before GW eventually put out their own replacement via the forgeworld Tamurkhan chaos dwarf rules and model line. There's also the example of early AoS, where GW published an unfinished and nigh unplayable game without points values or army building rules or pick up game friendly scenario packs. That vacuum made room for various community groups to try to fill in the gaps via homebrew, and there were a few competing attempts to do so before GW basically picked a winner to bring in house and canonize via the first General's Handbook.

It's pretty clear that ~a lot~ of Old World players consider the Legacy factions to be a full part of the game, which leaves a major demand for support and updates that the Old World devs thus far have not been allowed to fulfill. That naturally creates an opening for community efforts to step in. Of course, community action invites fragmentation, with different parts of the community seeing different problems and preferring different fixes. In the old Dark Elf and Chaos Dwarf examples above that sort of fragmentation was avoided mostly thanks to warhammer faction communities of the time being largely concentrated among a handful of dedicated forums. Nowadays that's much harder, since the old faction forums are mostly defunct or ghost towns, and modern communities are split between reddits and discords and facebook groups and podcasts and youtube channels and various other social media sites. In the AoS case it's hard to say if a single agreed upon standard would have eventually taken over if GW hadn't picked an official winner themselves, though I do think the community was moving towards consolidation at the time.

The Renegade pdf has managed to break through, in large part because of how prolific and vocal the square based crew is, the size of their existing podcast/youtube audience, the credibility they can claim thanks to their experience running events for other games before Old World and for Old World specifically pretty much since its release, and yeah the fact that have been running some of the larger and more regular Old World events means there are significant competitive events that will use their rules, giving them basically a free pass over the first and biggest hurdle towards wider adoption of any homebrew content.
 
Ah it's funny how time can play tricks on your memory! My impression of older community stuff looks to be woefully incorrect...but then my strengths have been more in the lore side!

It is a pity that the various forums have become more ghost towns...and I was amazed that even some of the big ones like WarSeer didn't make it! It would make it much easier to get buy in, if as you say everyone wasn't split over various places.

I haven't really listened/watched much of Renegades, but from what you say it sounds like I should be giving them more of my attention!
 
Square Based: A Warhammer Fantasy in the Old World - these are the renegade guys






I don't know, that's not at all an exhaustive list. Some of them kind of blend together for me. I'll often just search for 'warhammer old world' and filter to 'last month' & see what's there.

Doing that I stumbled on this channel: Lorica Clothing which isn't a tabletop gaming channel but instead is about clothing design and historical armors but also sometimes about looking at fantasy media armor and how it relates to historical inspirations, and she has a couple great videos looking at the Cathay model range.
 
Last edited:

About us

  • Our community has been around for many years and pride ourselves on offering unbiased, critical discussion among people of all different backgrounds. We are working every day to make sure our community is one of the best.

Quick Navigation

User Menu