Vampire Counts: Army Book Overview

[frankenstine]

it does work ive used it on skavenand although it wasnt in his flank i still got 3 units with it and it did loads of damage at least 50% and i got grief of him for it because he said id won using uber spells this coming from skaven was just so ridiculous lol

 

[The Sun King]

How on god's earth would you get a Necro to FLANK a skaven army?

 

[eggsPR]

How on god's earth would you get a Necro to FLANK a skaven army?

If your level 4 Vamp Lord is on the rightish side of the table, after a turn 2 charge, position the template in front of you, facing left. Then roll a 6, 8 or 10 on the artillery dice. Rinse and repeat if necessary. If on the leftish side, face the template right. It's not that hard, remember the template must only skim a unit - it's not like purple sun where you have to pass over individual models.

 

[The Sun King]

Ahh I see where our ends don't meet: Level 4 VL. Unless running a Deathbus I would NEVER take 4 levels on a VL.

 

[Kingside_Bishop]

Ahh I see where our ends don't meet: Level 4 VL. Unless running a Deathbus I would NEVER take 4 levels on a VL.

What do you do, Sun King? Run a lvl 1 lord, and a lvl 4 master necromancer?

 

[Vipoid]

Ahh I see where our ends don't meet: Level 4 VL. Unless running a Deathbus I would NEVER take 4 levels on a VL.

Out of interest, why not?

 

[The Sun King]

This: Hybrid.

 

[Vipoid]

This: Hybrid.

Surely that's a type of build - not an argument for why you favour that build?

I was just interested in why you'd never take a Lv4 Vampire Lord - can you not afford to take 4 magic levels, without compromising on combat ability? Or do you just feel that too many magic levels on a Vampire Lord are a waste? or is there another reason?

 

[eggsPR]

For smaller games its difficult to fit 2 lord choices - in larger games I run a MN. Buys that's not saying that I'm crazy to have a lvl 4 VL. Running him eliminates the need for a bunker, all my spells are cast at the front line which I like.

Isn't a lvl 4 VL, with QB, RF, Ogre Blade, 4+ ward and charmed shield the ultimate hybrid by definition?

 

[eggsPR]

Oh btw Johnny is going to get upset when he wakes up on the west coast and see his thread severely deviated off track...

To reel it back in, I have a question.

Could you perhaps you can add common items or magic lores/spells that provide tasty synergies with VC? .. Just a thought

 

[Yorga]

Very nice write-up!

Though you may have missed the boat on Wind of Death

Against Brets it IS better than purple sun. With lance formations, you can inflict 4d6 or 5d6 (3 wide ranks FTW) S3 hits with no armour saves on each unit of knights the template 'touches' (not having to pass through). I've taken out 90% of 2 giant units of grail knights and knights errant on 1 casting.

As Konrad is to Ogres, Wind of Death is to Brets (even with pre-game prayers).

Plus a flank casting against Skaven basically halves their entire army, which has happened b4.

Yes but that is what is wrong with the spell. Too situational. In a tournament with a Bret opponent, of course I would not trade it in for IoN. But most of the time it does not have enough juice for it's casting value.

 

[eggsPR]

Situational, yes. Crap spell, no. That's kinda my point.

If u play High Elves do u take purple sun? It's a great spell to many armies but damn near useless against them (though if they have the immune to magic banner, every death spell sucks against them barring D&D). Wind of Death is similar, albeit useful against a much smaller sampling.

Against Brets I'd drop curse of years or gaze to ION over Wind of Death 100 times out of 100.

Situational spells aren't crap spells - they're situational spells

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Back when I played Beastmen I took Purple Sun against High Elves.... But that is for another thread.

Also I never take a Lvl 4 Vampire caster unless I am running a Black Knight bus. The lore is too hit and miss to be worth my precious level 4 slot. Death on the other hand is insanely strong and fits many roles for our army.

 

[eggsPR]

Back when I played Beastmen I took Purple Sun against High Elves.... But that is for another thread.

Also I never take a Lvl 4 Vampire caster unless I am running a Black Knight bus. The lore is too hit and miss to be worth my precious level 4 slot. Death on the other hand is insanely strong and fits many roles for our army.

Agreed, however in 2k games (or Swedish comp) there's not much choice.

 

[The Sun King]

@ Vipoid. The reason I don't run a level 4 VL is because it's a point sink and I feel you get more of your money's worth by taking a pure combat VL/SGK and a Master Necromancer. Also then I'm free to make my level 4 a Deathromancer. ALSO my VL will hopefully be in combat most of the time and therefore not able to control the battlefield as well as a MN in a Bunker. ALSO ALSO if my general miscasts and get's sucked into the void it's a real bummer.

So as I wrote earlier I would only take a level 4 VL if tagging along in a Deathbus.

 

[CGBSpender]

lol. Today I took my lvl4 hybrid VL to a 2200 point game. He clocks in at 509 points, with a 3+/4++. I also had a Mortis Engine with Blasphemous Tome. By mid game he had 1 wound left, after fighting some Treekin. So, I wanted to heal him really badly with the lore attritute. My opponent dispels IoN, so with no dispel dice left, I decide to chuck 2 dice at VHD, rolling double 6s :|. Being within 12" of the Mortis, I had to roll twice on the table, and one of them was dimensional cascade (2-4). Obviously, he chose that one. Luckily for me I rolled a 5, so he didn't get sucked into the warp, and instead lost 1 power dice. Still, I was crapping my pants! I might just make him a lvl1 for IoN, and take a lvl4 Deathromancer.

I like having Lvl4s mainly for magic defense. Most of the time I only have enough dice to cast 2 spells anyway. Do you guys find many people taking lvl4 wizards in your gaming group? I hope i'm not going off topic here.

@ The Sun King: What would you consider a death bus?? Something like 40 grave guard? I think that's too many points in one unit, that can get redirected or tied up by something like goblins or skaven slaves.

 

[rothgar13]

That unit is pretty standard part and parcel of a lot of lists, and it's awful hard for tarpits to hold up long against a Blender Lord cleaving off up to 2 ranks a turn (without counting the contribution of the Grave Guard, who hit and wound on 2's in both your examples). And redirectors have to contend with VC screams and chaff, which are enough to trump most armies in that department. Not really that big a risk.

That said, I think a Deathbus sounds more like a Black Knight unit housing the big guy.

 

[Vipoid]

@ Vipoid. The reason I don't run a level 4 VL is because it's a point sink and I feel you get more of your money's worth by taking a pure combat VL/SGK and a Master Necromancer. Also then I'm free to make my level 4 a Deathromancer. ALSO my VL will hopefully be in combat most of the time and therefore not able to control the battlefield as well as a MN in a Bunker. ALSO ALSO if my general miscasts and get's sucked into the void it's a real bummer.

Fair enough, thanks for that.

If I played above 2000pts, I'd probably want a Master Necromancer to do my heavy casting too. As you say, risking having my general being sucked into another dimension isn't a good idea...

 

[The Sun King]

lol. Today I took my lvl4 hybrid VL to a 2200 point game. He clocks in at 509 points, with a 3+/4++. I also had a Mortis Engine with Blasphemous Tome. By mid game he had 1 wound left, after fighting some Treekin. So, I wanted to heal him really badly with the lore attritute. My opponent dispels IoN, so with no dispel dice left, I decide to chuck 2 dice at VHD, rolling double 6s :|. Being within 12" of the Mortis, I had to roll twice on the table, and one of them was dimensional cascade (2-4). Obviously, he chose that one. Luckily for me I rolled a 5, so he didn't get sucked into the warp, and instead lost 1 power dice. Still, I was crapping my pants!

VERY good example of why I don't think a Hybrid is that attractive.

@ The Sun King: What would you consider a death bus?? Something like 40 grave guard? I think that's too many points in one unit, that can get redirected or tied up by something like goblins or skaven slaves.

Yeah, sorry for my lingo, with Deathbus I mean: Deathstar which is also a bus, that leaves two possible builds(as I see it): The Black Knights or the Blood Knights loaded with Blender Characters. Here you need a level 4 VL to keep the unit alive plus casting buff spells like Vanhel's(also: More movement, yay!).

Oh yeah and I completely agree with Rothgar that GG's in horde is a very solid and unrisky investment.

 

[Yorga]

When I play with a Knight Bus, I like my VL to be level 4. The reason being is that I intend to win by simply eating face and not with tricksy magic. In that case I want that level 4 as close to the knights as possible to get the IoN off at 1 plus caster level and keep that unit topped off.

In this scenario, the other casters are likely to have Vampire Lore and Shadow. Mainly to keep other units up for point denial and the debuff on the enemy. The shadow vamp will roll for wither or enfeabling foe and if I don't get it will default to miasma. Miasma is serious enough to pull dispel dice out of your opponent and make the IoN more likely.

 

[The Sun King]

HAHA My first Ninja!

 

[CGBSpender]

What do you think 40 GG weakness is? Maybe a unit that can dish out a lot of S4+ attacks before they can strike? Some examples of these are Savage Orcs, High Elves with GW, and possibly Ogres. Their save will only be 6+ at best, I find that to be a real bummer for them, but I guess that's what we get for raising them so easily.

I was also thinking of having Krell hang out with GG. He matches them thematically, and also benefits from BoTB. Being WS5, he will hit a lot of things on 2s.

I also think lore of Metal will compliment that unit quite well, particularly Glittering Robe and Blades of Aiban. Glittering robe will give them a 3+ save, a possible solution to the above mentioned problem. Blades of Aiban, will give them back their lost magical attacks and armour piercing (total of -4 to saves). Combined with BOTB, they will most likely be hitting on 2+. Then again, all it takes is a failed fear check, and they will be hitting on 2s anyway. However, for units that are ITP, we will have to rely on magic to make them hit very accurately.

 

[Vipoid]

What do you think 40 GG weakness is?

A horde of Bloodletters.

Trust me. :'(

 

[The Sun King]

Agreeing with Vipoid, you don't want your GG against Bloodletters unless you have gotten some really good spells through.

 

[rothgar13]

And those spells had better come from the Lore of Shadow, otherwise they're still going to slap GG around. That's a bad, bad matchup (arguably the worst in the game for this unit). Savage Orcs are also real bad, as are Beast Banner Gors (particularly if they get a Wildform) and White Lions. GG are dangerous, but they're not invincible.