Vampire Counts Black Library Books

[Shareya]

End of the 1st Ulrika novel was sad

Good news! It's going to get a -lot- worse.
Also remember to read Gotrek and Felix - Manslayer once you are done xP

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

At the end of the day though this is not going to be something we will ever agree on, I follow the lore very closely, you tend to be more in line with the newer novels.

What on earth are you on about? I have posted and said this so many times already.
GW ( to who all things warhammer belong to) told the Authors to write out vash and wanted the new lore. You dislike said lore and claim it's wrong and just bad authors writing bad books. Even though I keep slapping you with the simple fact it was GW's desire. It just can't get any more official then that.

Is this not the case?

Yes it is. How do I know? Because I went and bluntly asked if it was the will of GW or not. This does not mean they wont change it again over the years of course but that does not change what we have/got now.

What I am on about is exactly what I have said.
I agree with your prior statement on another thread so I acknowledged as much so that it would be apparent.

Its not lore, its a novel, same as Harry Potter, background and novels are not the same things as they are told from different points of view and meant to be related to and not just background facts.
If it was otherwise people would read history books in favour of them, its very similar to movies in said regards, for example Brave Heart is a poor Presentation of the History.
Warhammer Lore is the History of that world, the future can be changed, the past is a very much set in place thing, it is in fact in its nature.

You said you spoke to an author who said this.
I said I have spoken to GW authors in the past as well and have been told a load of rubbish.
As far as I am concerned any such information should be taken with a very large amount of salt and if we took everything we were told as gospel you can imagine what things would be like.

I asked Phil Kelly when I saw him at games day about a new space wolf codex whilst I was talking to him about the latest vampire counts book and he said it would likely be out before the next space marine one.
The Space Marine Codex is out and the Space Wolves are not, People are not always right, they don't always know all the details.
None of us have GW's divine business plan for the future and we will have to wait and see what comes.
Now what I am saying is we leave it like that.

Yes it is. How do I know? Because I went and bluntly asked if it was the will of GW or not. This does not mean they wont change it again over the years of course but that does not change what we have/got now.

Thought so but was getting confuzled.

If the second vampy time of legends is better than the first then it's not a change I'll be sad about.

My copy got dispatched today I think.

Edit: No the 19th

Sorry to hear it mate, I am sat down with Master of Death now.
I'm curious to see how they will flesh W'soran out now he has some real page time.

I quite liked the second book and I am starting to believe we are getting Nagash back soon. They did hype him even in that book quite a bit.

Check out Mannfred's latest story in the latest GW VC army book. He - and all of the Carsteins working for him - are trying to bring back the dwarves - and at the end of the story, he proceeds to Khemri, sacrifice in his control, after defeating the dwarves and elves. They haven't got an "I win!" button this time!

Furthermore, GW no longer sells the Nagash model. They stopped selling the clown recently. It's not even available on their online store any more. This suggests that Nagash might be getting a new model...he could be returning!

The Elf maiden in that which he kidnaps is the one also in the Latest campaign book which is "killed" or "drained" to create his vampire state.
Curious though how in the Vamps Rule Book though he also had other bloodlines and major characters with him of which he has no affiliation, interesting to see the build up with even in the Ulrika books they are having to fight against Mannfred as well.
Heres hoping for a big campaign in time, maybe even he new starter set being Vamps and Empire.

End of the 1st Ulrika novel was sad

Good news! It's going to get a -lot- worse.
Also remember to read Gotrek and Felix - Manslayer once you are done xP

Allot of time in between those books, one thing keeps running through my head tough when reading them.
Gotrek and Felix are out and about for years with Franz on the throne, as far as we can tell come Manslayer this is still the case, if so however Karl is 60+ at this point, Felix has only retained his youth due to his proximity to Gotreks axe. :O

 

[Shareya]

Allot of time in between those books, one thing keeps running through my head tough when reading them.
Gotrek and Felix are out and about for years with Franz on the throne, as far as we can tell come Manslayer this is still the case, if so however Karl is 60+ at this point, Felix has only retained his youth due to his proximity to Gotreks axe.

Yosh. Asked the authors about this too and between the last Ulrika book and Manslayer there is a 19 year gap -.- I want to know what happens during that!

You said you spoke to an author who said this.
I said I have spoken to GW authors in the past as well and have been told a load of rubbish.
As far as I am concerned any such information should be taken with a very large amount of salt and if we took everything we were told as gospel you can imagine what things would be like.

None of us have GW's divine business plan for the future and we will have to wait and see what comes.

The difference here really is that GW told the writers that they want Vash gone so Vlad would be shrouded in mystery. Also the time of Legends lore was what they wanted to get the characters fleshed out and yada yada. It's bit different as I doubt all books get the same attention from them. Especially 40k as there are so many writers for them.

If they change their mind again in the future again? Sure! But for now the simply fact remains GW wanted him gone to make sure Vlad's past is a blank slate.

Its not lore, its a novel, same as Harry Potter, background and novels are not the same things as they are told from different points of view and meant to be related to and not just background facts.
If it was otherwise people would read history books in favour of them, its very similar to movies in said regards, for example Brave Heart is a poor Presentation of the History.
Warhammer Lore is the History of that world, the future can be changed, the past is a very much set in place thing, it is in fact in its nature.

I am not sure I can agree with this example at all. Especially when the whole point of the Blood of Nagash books is to properly flesh out the characters and each book describes what happens from a neutral standpoint + the main characters to avoid confusion.
In Master of Death it's a lot how Soran sees things and why he does/did everything.
In Neferata it's a lot how the Queen sees things and why she does/did everything.
And again for -now- at least GW has said what happened in said books ( including Nagash trilogy ) actually happened and Vash is gone ( again putting pressure that GW wanted him gone and told the authors to remove him). So there is no background fact twisting or changing or looking at it differently.

And Warhammer Lore is FANTASY LORE. Such lore is constantly updated and changed and it's done in most settings as time goes on >.< You can't bring up real life examples because this is not real life. These things never actually happened, it's why lore in games, books and so forth actually get both changed and adjusted to suit the needs of the developers ( or writers or company's like GW). I have never ever ever argued with someone who claims this is not how it works

 

[Ghouly]

GW need to go back to 6th edition lore all this new stuff sucks

 

[Blutsauger]

GW need to go back to 6th edition lore all this new stuff sucks

I think they need to go back to 5th ed stuff, before all this bloodlines nonsense.

 

[Irisado]

On the whole debate of old versus new background, I think that the key point to remember is that unless a piece of background is specifically negated or re-written then it can still be considered valid. This applies to army books and black library books.

GW tends to produce less background material now (outside of novels) than it previously did, so quite often sections are just missing. Absence of material does not mean absence of background evidence, it just means that you have to look in older sources to find it .

 

[Shareya]

I fully agree actually. Old fluff applies until new fluff is confirmed to be taking over.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Allot of time in between those books, one thing keeps running through my head tough when reading them.
Gotrek and Felix are out and about for years with Franz on the throne, as far as we can tell come Manslayer this is still the case, if so however Karl is 60+ at this point, Felix has only retained his youth due to his proximity to Gotreks axe.

Yosh. Asked the authors about this too and between the last Ulrika book and Manslayer there is a 19 year gap -.- I want to know what happens during that!

You said you spoke to an author who said this.
I said I have spoken to GW authors in the past as well and have been told a load of rubbish.
As far as I am concerned any such information should be taken with a very large amount of salt and if we took everything we were told as gospel you can imagine what things would be like.

None of us have GW's divine business plan for the future and we will have to wait and see what comes.

The difference here really is that GW told the writers that they want Vash gone so Vlad would be shrouded in mystery. Also the time of Legends lore was what they wanted to get the characters fleshed out and yada yada. It's bit different as I doubt all books get the same attention from them. Especially 40k as there are so many writers for them.

If they change their mind again in the future again? Sure! But for now the simply fact remains GW wanted him gone to make sure Vlad's past is a blank slate.

Its not lore, its a novel, same as Harry Potter, background and novels are not the same things as they are told from different points of view and meant to be related to and not just background facts.
If it was otherwise people would read history books in favour of them, its very similar to movies in said regards, for example Brave Heart is a poor Presentation of the History.
Warhammer Lore is the History of that world, the future can be changed, the past is a very much set in place thing, it is in fact in its nature.

I am not sure I can agree with this example at all. Especially when the whole point of the Blood of Nagash books is to properly flesh out the characters and each book describes what happens from a neutral standpoint + the main characters to avoid confusion.
In Master of Death it's a lot how Soran sees things and why he does/did everything.
In Neferata it's a lot how the Queen sees things and why she does/did everything.
And again for -now- at least GW has said what happened in said books ( including Nagash trilogy ) actually happened and Vash is gone ( again putting pressure that GW wanted him gone and told the authors to remove him). So there is no background fact twisting or changing or looking at it differently.

And Warhammer Lore is FANTASY LORE. Such lore is constantly updated and changed and it's done in most settings as time goes on >.< You can't bring up real life examples because this is not real life. These things never actually happened, it's why lore in games, books and so forth actually get both changed and adjusted to suit the needs of the developers ( or writers or company's like GW). I have never ever ever argued with someone who claims this is not how it works

You see thats the problem i have with novels.
Where as i want to see what happens and they are entertaining they have to many issues when it comes to matching them up.
In the campaign book Mannfred has his vampire state, in Ulrika Mannfred is still trying to take power, Karl Franz knows this as was told by her but now only knows as he was told in the new campaign, so this is a example of the campaign lore rewriting the novel but in Gotrek and Felix there is no Vampire State which means mannfred has not taken power some "19" years on and Volkmar is dead which has never been mentioned.

So in Short, Karl Franz only just Knows of Mannfred though was told whilst he was trying to gain power which he did because karl did not know and Volkmar died fighting them but in the future there is no mention of this state as if it did not exist.
None of the authors sing from the same hym sheet and due to this nothing makes sense, its good to flesh out characters, good for enjoyment but poor for lore.



No in the past I have been told things by authors which turned out to be wildly inacurate to say the least.
Thats the reason I don't hold authors as a Reliable Source, the only exception in my eyes is Dan Abnet, the Golden throne is only Golden because he touched it.



I do see why they wanted Vlad shrouded in mystery as well, its like a Vampire Jesus all over again.
The only problem is they have already told us what happened in the lore and the books in clear terms, there is no mystery.

This like the girl you had a crush on back in school walking naked out of the bathroom and then being told to forget about it.
Snowballs chance in hell of that, that image is on my highlight wheel flashback for when i die. erv:


But no, theres no need for the rewrite, we want new lore, not the old destroying.
Besides I have already figured it out.
Vlad is the Emperor.
He eventually gained total Power and took his seat on the Golden Throne, They both are thousands of yesrs old and have manipulated history in times of need, they both have sought to rule, they both detroyed religion on mass, they both offered the option to join them or die, they both did what was nesacerry and hid great secrets, they were both betrayed by their favourite bald sons....
Hell they are both now corpses manipulating the world around them with their powers through magic etc, the only reason he is still on the throne is because some baldy git stole his ring.




I see where you are coming from with the fleshing out of characters but there are allot of books told by different authors with different views.
If this was the work of all one person i could accept allot of it but with some following the lore, some ingnoring and the books so badly contrasting even between the novels I have a hard time thinking of them than anything else but a story that is in no way linked to anything else, hell i read more accurate fan fick. :slapface:

You keep saying that GW said he is gone.
Heres the problem i have with that, a Author in GW said something, its not divine mandate.
I was told the other day by a GW Manager that the Emperor kill Sangunius, its hearsay for a source which has not be offiaclly backed by the company.
If it was said tomorrow at a gamesday where ever by the authors to a open audience in a Q&A which is supporrted by GW then it is fact, one guy saying something does not make that so.

Just because its Fantasy lore does not give free reign to rewrite it every other year.
When this happens people stop caring about it as it is worthless, Hell WoW and Elder Scrolls can keep their lore straight, even other game systems can as well but not GW?
These days I find it so easy to get disillusioned in a company which seems to pump out novels which pay no heed to the lore or indeed even other novels, hell half the time GW does not even know what it is doing and does not care as long as they make a profit.
I still remember when GW increased the price of the Eldar Wraithlord above the cost of the Forge World Wraith Seer kit which came with the FW bits needed to make it and a whole Wraith Lord kit as well. :slapface:

GW need to go back to 6th edition lore all this new stuff sucks

I think they need to go back to 5th ed stuff, before all this bloodlines nonsense.

Either way I support either point.
So in my senior moment I will say "Things are not as goo as they used to be" followed by "stuff costs more than it used to" for good meeasure.

 

[Cataphract]

What is interesting because he is in the end the most boring character. I find most of his fans to be men who just get thew hole badass honor bound warrior vibe and think that's neat. < not a insult! Just how I feel about it.

Also Soran is still pretty much scaring everyone around him in his own book. But so far so good!

Actually W'soran does complain about this, about why his Strigoi Necrearchs are so enamored and impressed with Abhorash whenever he arrives.