NOES!!! MY ICE CREAM!!!!!!!!!
I said Pm because GW can get a little irritable if you publish their rules for forth coming armies
I said Pm because GW can get a little irritable if you publish their rules for forth coming armies
Vampire Counts Rumours
- Thread starter Master Vampire
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The masquerade of murder returns! A new game of Vampires Amongst Us has begun. Unmask the killers, trust no one, and try to survive the night. Find out more and sign up now!
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Generally, just posting hints and rumours is okay. Posting entire statlines is not, however, but that doesn't matter if it's a new upcoming army book or one with several years on it's behind.
Of course, should there be something you know you can't post, PM me as well!!!
~Mortis
Of course, should there be something you know you can't post, PM me as well!!!
~Mortis
Rhaegar Targaryen
Zombie
Posting statline 'guesses' is ok.
GW can never sue you about things you guess. Think of fraud - it's hard to prove. Only bosses get punished because they're the easiest to take on. Though, if you just take a simple employee... Like I said, just like fraud.
GW can never sue you about things you guess. Think of fraud - it's hard to prove. Only bosses get punished because they're the easiest to take on. Though, if you just take a simple employee... Like I said, just like fraud.
darknesseternal
Varghulf
Richie said:
Ahhhhhhh of course.. kinda sad but that never occured to me, to think that GW might get a bit narky and itching to sue if you published their rules and stats without permission.. sorry, my fault, I forgot that they are a souless corporation like all the rest :devil:
Now where was I? Oh that's right... *steals more of Richie's ice cream and runs off*
AHAHA! the joke is now on you I substituted it body butter trying eating that! *eats his ice cream before it can be stolen a second time*
I've got a load of rumours courtsey of the UKGT... and here they are for you all. Please note that any stuff in [square brackets] is my own thoughts or speculation- do not repeat it as fact or rumour to anyone anywhere unless you are an idiot! Now if you thought that the new High Elves sound powerful, wait till you see the new Vampire Counts... among the less scatalogical terms used to describe them were "sick", "disgusting" and "filthy". You have been warned
So, to begin with, not much info on characters other than Wight Lords are now "Wight Kings". Guess GW realised how silly a hero-level character with "Lord" in the name was...
As is well known, bloodlines have been removed (in terms of rules). There is now a -massive- list of bloodline powers to choose from, encompassing most of the powers we currently have and more. Here's a really interesting one: for 25 points, any Skeleton or Zombie within 12" can use the WS of the Vampire, as long as the Vampire isn't in combat. WS7 Skeletons? Nice! Another new magic item lets one wizard take spells from any of the basic lores from the main rulebook, except Life [presumably Light won't be available either or my source mis-spoke/ mis-heard himself].
Speaking of the magic, the Necromantic Lore is undergoing a massive revamp. Curse of Years will be the 4th spell on the list and even drops a couple of points for casting value, don't know if it's been weakened at all. The spell replacing it is called something like "Winds of Death", and makes EVERY enemy unit on the table take one hit, and any wounds go towards making a new Spirit Host near the caster! Incredible stuff... I heard two separate, very differing rumours about the invocation, one that it can only be used to make Zombies, and the other that it can be used to raise anything, "skeletons, wights, wolves, ghouls etc." [although since Ghouls aren't undead I'm not sure if I believe that. It could mean that Necromancers can raise anything but Vampires only Zombies]
Moving onto units, Zombies are cheaper some, and are now even more rubbish. S2 these days, and always strike last. Always. [Don't think Hellish Vigour will exist any more.] You know the Zombie bunker tactic? Gone! Characters can no longer join Zombies. Also, Zombies cannot pursue any more- when a unit breaks, for every rank of Zombies, the flee-ers take a bunch of extra hits/ wounds. Doesn't seem that nasty really.
Ghouls will be ranked-up infantry again. Not sure how that'll turn out.
Grave Guard can take great weapons
The Knights of Blood Keep are going to be horrific. Unit size 4-20, frenzied, 3 attacks each at S5 with lances (So S7!), the less said about them the better...
Wraiths return as ranked up units, as has been speculated for a while. The Banshee now fights with them as a unit champion, making them very expensive. To be honest I can't imagine this looking any good on the table top, although if they skirmish that might make more sense.
The Black Coach is going to make a lot of people happy (or scared). For a start, 4+ ward save- no word on immunity to S7 attacks though. However, it can go a little bit mental in the magic phase! Any wizard within 6" can donate a power dice, which you roll and for every 6 you get, it permanently gains a new ability, including...
1) Scythes
2) Hatred
3) ? [My money's on immunity to S7 destruction]
4) Ethereal
5) Fly
Yes, that's right, an invisible [Edit: meant ethereal!], flying, terror causing large target. You'll need to donate 30 power dice on average to get that far, but if you do... wow. And still 200 points.
Special characters are five von Carsteins as has been said, Vlad and old Mannfred are the Lords, with Isabella, young Mannfred and a third as heroes. I can't imagine Konrad being a lowly hero, he's a lord and a half, but we'll see...
That should keep us going for a bit. Out in about six months remember
So, to begin with, not much info on characters other than Wight Lords are now "Wight Kings". Guess GW realised how silly a hero-level character with "Lord" in the name was...
As is well known, bloodlines have been removed (in terms of rules). There is now a -massive- list of bloodline powers to choose from, encompassing most of the powers we currently have and more. Here's a really interesting one: for 25 points, any Skeleton or Zombie within 12" can use the WS of the Vampire, as long as the Vampire isn't in combat. WS7 Skeletons? Nice! Another new magic item lets one wizard take spells from any of the basic lores from the main rulebook, except Life [presumably Light won't be available either or my source mis-spoke/ mis-heard himself].
Speaking of the magic, the Necromantic Lore is undergoing a massive revamp. Curse of Years will be the 4th spell on the list and even drops a couple of points for casting value, don't know if it's been weakened at all. The spell replacing it is called something like "Winds of Death", and makes EVERY enemy unit on the table take one hit, and any wounds go towards making a new Spirit Host near the caster! Incredible stuff... I heard two separate, very differing rumours about the invocation, one that it can only be used to make Zombies, and the other that it can be used to raise anything, "skeletons, wights, wolves, ghouls etc." [although since Ghouls aren't undead I'm not sure if I believe that. It could mean that Necromancers can raise anything but Vampires only Zombies]
Moving onto units, Zombies are cheaper some, and are now even more rubbish. S2 these days, and always strike last. Always. [Don't think Hellish Vigour will exist any more.] You know the Zombie bunker tactic? Gone! Characters can no longer join Zombies. Also, Zombies cannot pursue any more- when a unit breaks, for every rank of Zombies, the flee-ers take a bunch of extra hits/ wounds. Doesn't seem that nasty really.
Ghouls will be ranked-up infantry again. Not sure how that'll turn out.
Grave Guard can take great weapons
The Knights of Blood Keep are going to be horrific. Unit size 4-20, frenzied, 3 attacks each at S5 with lances (So S7!), the less said about them the better...
Wraiths return as ranked up units, as has been speculated for a while. The Banshee now fights with them as a unit champion, making them very expensive. To be honest I can't imagine this looking any good on the table top, although if they skirmish that might make more sense.
The Black Coach is going to make a lot of people happy (or scared). For a start, 4+ ward save- no word on immunity to S7 attacks though. However, it can go a little bit mental in the magic phase! Any wizard within 6" can donate a power dice, which you roll and for every 6 you get, it permanently gains a new ability, including...
1) Scythes
2) Hatred
3) ? [My money's on immunity to S7 destruction]
4) Ethereal
5) Fly
Yes, that's right, an invisible [Edit: meant ethereal!], flying, terror causing large target. You'll need to donate 30 power dice on average to get that far, but if you do... wow. And still 200 points.
Special characters are five von Carsteins as has been said, Vlad and old Mannfred are the Lords, with Isabella, young Mannfred and a third as heroes. I can't imagine Konrad being a lowly hero, he's a lord and a half, but we'll see...
That should keep us going for a bit. Out in about six months remember
Awesome.
The Scyths ability for the coach is interesting, it would suggest you no longer get scythes for 10+ wounds, or worse yet, that you can't increase your wounds at all.
I don't like the idea of ranked ghouls, but i do like the rest of it.
The extra hits for fleeing units against zombies is cool, especially if it takes them below 25%. the enemy will have a screaming speadhump that causes panic coming toward them with no ability to rally. of course in most situations, you will have another unit to persue anyway.
I am really looking forward to the new vampire abilities, they sound fantastic. keeping my fingers crossed for a seperate point pool for abilities and items.
The Scyths ability for the coach is interesting, it would suggest you no longer get scythes for 10+ wounds, or worse yet, that you can't increase your wounds at all.
I don't like the idea of ranked ghouls, but i do like the rest of it.
The extra hits for fleeing units against zombies is cool, especially if it takes them below 25%. the enemy will have a screaming speadhump that causes panic coming toward them with no ability to rally
. of course in most situations, you will have another unit to persue anyway.I am really looking forward to the new vampire abilities, they sound fantastic. keeping my fingers crossed for a seperate point pool for abilities and items.
Interesting stuff EvC. More or less comfirms some things(we are bloody close to a release and certains points are being repeated over and over).
I will still finish my TK army but it does seem VC are up for a rather big change thus infusing life(or unlife?) to VC. We´ll see!
I will still finish my TK army but it does seem VC are up for a rather big change thus infusing life(or unlife?) to VC. We´ll see!
So do you think its safe to make my Drakenhof Guard, since its believed that Grave Guard will be allowed to take Great Weapons? Making them tournament legal..
Thanks for the update! :grin:
Grave Guards with great weapons would be awesome, as I have 25 converted Greatswords gathering dust on a shelf, since the ban of AoS.
New vampiric powers would be cool. The WS rumour is kind of cute, making our crap troops less likely to give away wounds - until your vampire gets into combat, where you want him to be.
Would be a huge nerf if Invocation could no longer heal our characters though.
No news of our essential, game-winning spell, Danse Macabre?
Zombies takes a hit, S2 doesn't matter but characters not being able to join hurts the flexibility of the list as a whole, and no pursuing is just a nerf, no matter the extra hits/wounds. Sounds like it's the last days of 'Night of the Living Dead' armies.
Bunker becomes 20 points more expensive it seems (have to use Skellies).
Ghouls ranked up. That would really suck, armies without skirmishers suffers, and most of them have war machines and shooting to compensate a little. We don't, AFAIK
As I've heard it, the Knights of Blood Keep are actually vampire thralls (that explains their 3 attacks each and S5). Frenzy would make them same or worse than chosen knights of Khorne - they probably have worse armour save, and they'll probably cost more.
The Black Coach - well it was in bad need of a boost. I heard that it would be ethereal and a possible mount for vampire lords, but your rumour seems more likely. But invisible?
If you donate a power dice, and happens to roll a 6 - would you get to choose the new ability, or do you roll at a chart?
Not much of a boost for the Coach I'm afraid, the 4+ ward save is cool but if it lose Invocation of Death it's a nerf. It would lose all staying power in combat. And as you usually want it on the flanks to make most of the terror and inability to march, I don't see that the power dice game will be a common factor.
On the whole, I don't see why these VC rumours would cause comments like "sick", "disgusting" and "filthy". IMHO the HE changes are far more powerful.
Grave Guards with great weapons would be awesome, as I have 25 converted Greatswords gathering dust on a shelf, since the ban of AoS.
New vampiric powers would be cool. The WS rumour is kind of cute, making our crap troops less likely to give away wounds - until your vampire gets into combat, where you want him to be.
Would be a huge nerf if Invocation could no longer heal our characters though.
No news of our essential, game-winning spell, Danse Macabre?
Zombies takes a hit, S2 doesn't matter but characters not being able to join hurts the flexibility of the list as a whole, and no pursuing is just a nerf, no matter the extra hits/wounds. Sounds like it's the last days of 'Night of the Living Dead' armies.
Bunker becomes 20 points more expensive it seems (have to use Skellies).
Ghouls ranked up. That would really suck, armies without skirmishers suffers, and most of them have war machines and shooting to compensate a little. We don't, AFAIK
As I've heard it, the Knights of Blood Keep are actually vampire thralls (that explains their 3 attacks each and S5). Frenzy would make them same or worse than chosen knights of Khorne - they probably have worse armour save, and they'll probably cost more.
The Black Coach - well it was in bad need of a boost. I heard that it would be ethereal and a possible mount for vampire lords, but your rumour seems more likely. But invisible?
If you donate a power dice, and happens to roll a 6 - would you get to choose the new ability, or do you roll at a chart?
Not much of a boost for the Coach I'm afraid, the 4+ ward save is cool but if it lose Invocation of Death it's a nerf. It would lose all staying power in combat. And as you usually want it on the flanks to make most of the terror and inability to march, I don't see that the power dice game will be a common factor.
On the whole, I don't see why these VC rumours would cause comments like "sick", "disgusting" and "filthy". IMHO the HE changes are far more powerful.
Great stuff EvC.
As the rest of you lot, I don't fancy the prospect of ranked ghouls. I don't know, recently it seems like GW has developed some kind of skirmish-phobia...
Those vampire knights sounds absolutely crazy. I guess they'll cost a gazillion points to boot (not really, but 50-ish would not be far off I think, if they really come with all those abilities you describe). One question though: do they replace black knights so that we don't have access to mounted wights as a unit any more?
As for the zombies, they just got even more lowly and downtrodden. Although not being able to be joined by characters take away some flexibility, I must admit that I think this is good. Zombies were just a little too good in 6th edition - with Hellish Vigour, the Invocation and Fear to boot it, they could quite easily take out a full unit of dwarf warriors, which IMO they shouldn't be able to unless they outnumbered two to one.
Wraiths in units led by a banshee? Can't really see that working - just a big points sink, easily stripped by magic. Ah well, I guess I'll have to see it on paper before I can judge properly.
Black Coach = nuts.
All in all, it all sounds interesting. Now - show me more models!
~Mortis
As the rest of you lot, I don't fancy the prospect of ranked ghouls. I don't know, recently it seems like GW has developed some kind of skirmish-phobia...
Those vampire knights sounds absolutely crazy. I guess they'll cost a gazillion points to boot (not really, but 50-ish would not be far off I think, if they really come with all those abilities you describe). One question though: do they replace black knights so that we don't have access to mounted wights as a unit any more?
As for the zombies, they just got even more lowly and downtrodden. Although not being able to be joined by characters take away some flexibility, I must admit that I think this is good. Zombies were just a little too good in 6th edition - with Hellish Vigour, the Invocation and Fear to boot it, they could quite easily take out a full unit of dwarf warriors, which IMO they shouldn't be able to unless they outnumbered two to one.
Wraiths in units led by a banshee? Can't really see that working - just a big points sink, easily stripped by magic. Ah well, I guess I'll have to see it on paper before I can judge properly.
Black Coach = nuts.
All in all, it all sounds interesting. Now - show me more models!
~Mortis
The bad:
Ranked Ghouls = Bleh
A skeleton having vampire stats seems very open to abuse
Unit of ranked up wraiths seems like an incredibly expensive unit that nobody will use.
Losing zombie bunkers.
The good:
Raising anything seems reasonably logical for the army
Cheap S2 zombies is fine by me.
Grave Guard with great weapons suits me fine, because mine are already armed with great weapons!
Wind of Death coming back should be fun.
The inbetween:
The Black Coach still doesn't get me excited.
The Knights of Blood Keep. I know it's an army list for VC's but I'm still not comfortable with an army FULL of vampires. They're meant to be rare! Oh well, mine will still look like a shambling horde of mounted skeletons and zombies.
Ranked Ghouls = Bleh
A skeleton having vampire stats seems very open to abuse
Unit of ranked up wraiths seems like an incredibly expensive unit that nobody will use.
Losing zombie bunkers.
The good:
Raising anything seems reasonably logical for the army
Cheap S2 zombies is fine by me.
Grave Guard with great weapons suits me fine, because mine are already armed with great weapons!
Wind of Death coming back should be fun.
The inbetween:
The Black Coach still doesn't get me excited.
The Knights of Blood Keep. I know it's an army list for VC's but I'm still not comfortable with an army FULL of vampires. They're meant to be rare! Oh well, mine will still look like a shambling horde of mounted skeletons and zombies.
Lord Aldrek
Ghoul
hmm. Ghouls no longer skirmish, IMO they loos much of the use
.
The changes for the Zombies are interesting thou. The only bad thing about those changes is that no characters my join, so more expensive necrobunkers...
I can't say that I like the new vampire knights, too expensive, I'll stick with my BK.
a new Wraith unit, don't know about that one.
The new Black Coach sounds cool to me, never used the old. Maybe I will use this one, we'll see.
The new Vampire powers sound interesting. Joust imagine
You: "Okay, your spearmen have WS3, so they hit my skeletons on 5+!"
Empire Player: "WTF! How’s that possible!!"
You: "new vampire power, for 25 points, any Skeleton or Zombie within 12" can use the WS of the Vampire, as long as the Vampire isn't in combat."
Empire Player: :|
Cheers
Lord Aldrek
[/u]
.The changes for the Zombies are interesting thou. The only bad thing about those changes is that no characters my join, so more expensive necrobunkers...
I can't say that I like the new vampire knights, too expensive, I'll stick with my BK.
a new Wraith unit, don't know about that one.
The new Black Coach sounds cool to me, never used the old. Maybe I will use this one, we'll see.
The new Vampire powers sound interesting. Joust imagine
You: "Okay, your spearmen have WS3, so they hit my skeletons on 5+!"
Empire Player: "WTF! How’s that possible!!"
You: "new vampire power, for 25 points, any Skeleton or Zombie within 12" can use the WS of the Vampire, as long as the Vampire isn't in combat."
Empire Player: :|
Cheers
Lord Aldrek
[/u]
About Wraiths in units, can't say that I'm excited yet, point costs and abilities are still unknown.
It's too early to say good/bad about the rumours, as we don't know the details about how the Necromancy lore will be and which magic items we get to keep. It's the combinations that makes or break armies.
I sincerely hope that the Cursed Book will still be around. Just imagine a magically tooled up Necrarch Lord not meant to be in combat, working his magic from behind the lines, with a necro librarian close by. That will be 5's to hit Zombies and Skellies for all enemy units... *insert evil laughter*
It's too early to say good/bad about the rumours, as we don't know the details about how the Necromancy lore will be and which magic items we get to keep. It's the combinations that makes or break armies.
I sincerely hope that the Cursed Book will still be around. Just imagine a magically tooled up Necrarch Lord not meant to be in combat, working his magic from behind the lines, with a necro librarian close by. That will be 5's to hit Zombies and Skellies for all enemy units... *insert evil laughter*
How do you figure?
God this is getting me more excited by the day!
As i said on WarSeer, this tallies up with stuff i've heard, so it makes sense to me.
As i said on WarSeer, this tallies up with stuff i've heard, so it makes sense to me.
Your the man EvC
Hmm I can't say if the changes will be good or bad, as in make the army stronger or weaker. I could say though that it seems VC are becoming stronger but less manouverable. We get 2 new infantry units and loose 2 skirmishing ones (ghouls and banshee).
The zombies seem to be getting much weaker (not because they loose 1 str but cause char can't join and the zombies can't pursue), but i still like that change since vampires refusing to lead zombies feels right.
Heh I want to know what the forumites think the cost of each zombie will be.
Wings of death seems really strong (unless it is sth with like casting value 15 and str2).
I find it hard to beleive that there will be a 25 point ability that lets skellies use the vampire's WS. I mean thats really big for only 25 points (or so it seems). I can't imagine how this will be balanced... maybe skellies will be more expensive... maybe you only get the WS for attacking?
Oh and I am willing to bet that the ghoul infantry unit will be unbreakable, pretty much lke dwarfish slayers. "Insane and always hungry the ghouls never flee when the slaughter begins"
Hmm I can't say if the changes will be good or bad, as in make the army stronger or weaker. I could say though that it seems VC are becoming stronger but less manouverable. We get 2 new infantry units and loose 2 skirmishing ones (ghouls and banshee).
The zombies seem to be getting much weaker (not because they loose 1 str but cause char can't join and the zombies can't pursue), but i still like that change since vampires refusing to lead zombies feels right.
Heh I want to know what the forumites think the cost of each zombie will be.
Wings of death seems really strong (unless it is sth with like casting value 15 and str2).
I find it hard to beleive that there will be a 25 point ability that lets skellies use the vampire's WS. I mean thats really big for only 25 points (or so it seems). I can't imagine how this will be balanced... maybe skellies will be more expensive... maybe you only get the WS for attacking?
Oh and I am willing to bet that the ghoul infantry unit will be unbreakable, pretty much lke dwarfish slayers. "Insane and always hungry the ghouls never flee when the slaughter begins"
Mortis said:
I have seen 15 dwarfs easily take out 30 zombies . They just used great weapons instead of hand and shield though
N.I.B. said:
Man I am blind I read EvC post twice and didn't see it. Yes thats pretty balanced.
N.I.B. said:
I don't know about you, but anything that causes terror, has a 4+ ward save, is subject to hatred, has scythes, is ethereal and flies is pretty darn nuts in my book.
Note, I didn't say it was broken or unbalanced. I'm fully aware of the high numbers of "ifs" included in any theory on the coach, and that you could potentially donate bucketfuls of dice to it without any gain. I just think the prospect of having a single model with all those abilities is somewhat mental.
VladtheLad said:I have seen 15 dwarfs easily take out 30 zombies . They just used great weapons instead of hand and shield though
And I've seen 26 zombies taking out 25 dwarf warriors...
~Mortis
The ghouls open up an interesting option, this is assuming they still are 5+ models units. Now, since they are ranked up now you can allign your opponent(when they charge) or flee... sure it wont be fast cavalry but hey, it´s all we´ve got 
I like the idea of the vampire giving his WS to those nearby, he is the source of waking them and compelling them to move. Sort of a version of "my will be done" of the TK. Good idea GW.
The Coach doesnt impress me. Though it be interesting to just sacrifice every dice in the first turn of a game and pump it up. For example if one wanted to to a Flying circus(or whatever it will be called) you could just have your count be lvl2 and pump all four dice into it each turn. Could be a scary thing by then no doubt.
Depends how the rest of the list turns out of course.
Cheers
I like the idea of the vampire giving his WS to those nearby, he is the source of waking them and compelling them to move. Sort of a version of "my will be done" of the TK. Good idea GW.
The Coach doesnt impress me. Though it be interesting to just sacrifice every dice in the first turn of a game and pump it up. For example if one wanted to to a Flying circus(or whatever it will be called) you could just have your count be lvl2 and pump all four dice into it each turn. Could be a scary thing by then no doubt.
Depends how the rest of the list turns out of course.
Cheers
After throwing 30 power dice on it so you can have all of the above and meanwhile keeping it within 6" of a necromancer and not using it, I'm sure your opponent will be quite happy with the trade. Until then, it's just gained a 4+ ward save instead of the old 5+. Making it viable at least.Mortis said:
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