Vampire Counts vs New Tomb Kings: What would you like?

[Anubis]

I think we'll loose a lot of magic items, which will mean a nightmare equipping Vampires. And Vampire powers will most likely be dropped, but hopefully we get more access to none magical items for them, (Heavy Armour, Great Weapons, etc...)

Vampire Powers have been around since the original inception of Warhammer Armies: Vampire Counts.
They're not about to go anywhere! That would be akin to removing the marks and/or gifts of chaos from the warriors book!!! (even Matt 'I'm an idiot' Ward isn't quite that dumb...)

I'm sure we'll get a monster as only us, Empire and Dwarfs don't really have one, (High Elves I suppose but Dragon Riding Heroes...) and every book seems to get a monster now. Zombie Giant is a bit too obvious though, maybe a Frankenstien's Giant monster???

I kinda don't see zombie giant as possible... It's too easy and it could easily become very silly. GW is moving away from the silly/cartoon look of earily editions and wanting a darker, grimer setting. Plus, how many freakin' giants does this game really need?!!

However on the other hand, I'm rather interested to know what a 'Hellwraith' might be?!

Cheers!

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Hmm, Hellwraith.....like an ethereal monster / giant. If that did happen there would be such a kick up about that from all the other players. They already moan about how ethereal is broken on wraiths, imagine their reactions on something with the stats of a dragon + ethereal :devil2: Course I quite like the idea.

I do hope you are right about the powers Anubis, and removing the powers is quite possibly the worse thing they could do to VC. From what I have seen of TK though, their army seems less orientated around the characters (well as possible for Undead), and more their monstrous troops / statues. So maybe they will keep VC the character heavy army, which to be honest I would be fine with. Just bring back the bloodlines!!!

 

[Anubis]

Hmm, Hellwraith.....like an ethereal monster / giant. If that did happen there would be such a kick up about that from all the other players. They already moan about how ethereal is broken on wraiths, imagine their reactions on something with the stats of a dragon + ethereal :devil2: Course I quite like the idea.

Well, Phil Kelly brought it up as a veiled hint in new rulebook's background section!

And as for other players kicking up a fuss over an ethereal monster? It's not like there's absolutely no magical attacks available anywhere. (Yet I do agree with you - every single skaven & daemon player will cry foul...)
Plus, even the brets are hinted at getting some ethereal units of their own too! (creatures formed of the mists and specral bowmen & knights!)

Still, I could see it more as perhaps being a larger, scarier version of an abyssal terror?!erv:

I do hope you are right about the powers Anubis, and removing the powers is quite possibly the worse thing they could do to VC. From what I have seen of TK though, their army seems less orientated around the characters (well as possible for Undead), and more their monstrous troops / statues. So maybe they will keep VC the character heavy army, which to be honest I would be fine with. Just bring back the bloodlines!!!

I hope I'm right too!

Mind you, I have a feeling if we lose all our powers and/or they become the provence of just special characters, we'll then see a large mob of blood-thirsting, angry nerds decending on a not-so-quiet part of Nottingham...

Cheers!

 

[TJK1991]

i like the zombie giant idea, but ive always thought of VC as halloween army, so a frankenstein would be an awesome model to use

 

[Gharof]

i like the zombie giant idea, but ive always thought of VC as halloween army, so a frankenstein would be an awesome model to use

its vampire counts not the rocky horror show... frankenstein and stuff like that has no place in a VC army! cept for werewolves... we need a lot of werewolves/varghulf/strigoi

 

[Anubis]

Werewolves would make a really cool option for a monstrous beast type unit! 'Cause, you know, we're utterly lacking in that area and it can be a near game-breaking disadvantage for us against alot of other heavy-wieght lists...

What we need for new units overall;
a) a shooting option. Either a basic shooting unit with bows/xbows and/or a war machine. Not being able to reduce numbers - especially against other hordes is simply not fair right now.

b) a fast cavalry unit. Our 'vanguard' is limited to ghoulkin'd unit/s... Again, big disadvantage, especially if our opponents are sitting well back gunlining and/or have lots of fast cav of their own to run rings around us at will...

c) 1+ monstrous 'insert unit type'. Currently, only ourselves & dwarfs (who are the anti-monster army anyways!) lack even a single monstrous infantry/beast/cav option!
Considering how our infantry is ment to basically tarpit and wear down the opposition, this make enemy monstrous units quite powerful since these units can typically plow through our 'hordes' of squishy-squishy dead things!
We really need at least 1 heavy-hitter of our own to fight back, since right now we're limited to great weapon grave guard & ghouls. (who both can really go squish in return!) It would also give us an additional option/answer to dealing with enemy hordes as well.

Hopefully these issues get addressed, on top of the other needed changes such as pts values and the vamps themselves.

Cheers!

 

[PlatosMagic]

First, and Foremost, before Games Workshop adds any new shiny units, I would appreciate it if they would just focus on our current unit selection so as to make the units that we currently have, viable to play. I think one indication of a well written army book is where there aren't any 'obvious' choices to take, which, at the moment, our army book is not balanced with itself. Some changes I would like to see to our new army book are:

1) Cheaper skeletons: I think if there is a 'given' to what Games Workshop will change in our army book, then this is it. However, I do not think our skeletons should be as cheap as the Tomb King's skeletons because we can raise, and heal our units more efficiently than the Tomb King army.

2) Personally, I would like to see Games Workshop get rid of the 'Lord of the Dead' Vampire power. Instead, skeletons will have the same rule as the zombies in that you can raise them beyond their starting unit count. I mean, they are only skeletons. I think this will have a two-fold effect. (A) It will make skeletons usable again in conjunction with their points drop, and (B) It will give them a more defined role as a hoard style, or a type of sponge unit. But then again, if Ghouls are returned to being a skirmishing unit, then I guess that could solve the problem as well. But, perhaps this could be a different solution, who knows.

3) Point reduction and/or t3 zombies.

4) Beefier characters with more defined character roles. Also, I think it would be kind of cool to see maybe a 5+ regeneration save on our Vampire Lords, seeing as how Vampires can heal themselves.

5) Something to rival Grave Guard.
There are a lot of other things as well, but I am getting tired and it is late. To answer the original poster's question, I think that Games Workshop should definitely gear the Vampire Counts army towards being the 'healing' undead army while focusing on the dependability of our characters, thus, making sure our characters are beefy and have a bunch of options to play with.

PlatosMagic

 

[Belladamma Voltaire]

I feel that the stated distinction of having the constructs/skeletons portion of the Tomb Kings means that they will make a similar split between the strands of the Vampire Counts - the Necromantic Arts and the Aristocracy of the Night. The Aristocracy would be more the military aspect of the vampires while the Necromantic Arts would be the fleshy abundances that can be made through the perverse VC magic. I see it being as such:

Aristocracy of the Night:
Grave Guard
Vampires
Black Coach
Blood Knights
Varghulf
Wight Kings

Necromantic Arts:
Zombies
Ghouls
Skeletons
Fell Bats/Dire Wolves
Wraiths/Banshees
Necromancers
Corpse Carts

With this in mind I think the logical route to go down would be to add in something more for the 'Necromantic Arts' - some sort of giant abomination not unlike those seen in World of Warcraft. Certainly taking Necromancers up a level once more to go along the Clan Moulder route would not be a bad thing in my opinion and would add some distinction to making a Vampire Counts army that is distinctly one dimensional.

Inversely, adding in a 'medium' Varghulf would satisfy the gap of needing monstrous infantry very well. Imagine having ogre sized strigoi and then the Varghulf being the final step ala Dragon Ogres/Shaggoth.

I tend to be wrong about this sort of thing but I do feel that the core and special choices for the Vampire Counts leave a lot lacking while the Rare choices are a bit meh. I am not advocating the bringing in of ranged units because I do not believe it to be necessary to the overall Vampire Counts flavour but certainly, being more creative with Necromancy would pay massively.

 

[Arkhan]

I'm gonna guess that we will get a Zombie Dragon that will be similar to the TK Sphinx that you can either use it as a mount or use a independent version of it (spectral perhaps) that flies around and cause general havoc. If nothing else I want a plastic Zombie Dragon. I also really wanna bring back the Bloodlines so you can properly use Strigoi again.